Powerplay should not be made Open-only. Here's why... [EDITED]

[Sylveria]

Yeah, but you can do that too. If you think it so easy, go ahead, champ. Git gud and go solo.

Pure win.

 

[Sterling MH]

No solo PP is like playing Chess against a computer instead of another live person.

Or like using 3Dmark to rate your computer then upload it to the leader table to see who wins. Nobody would expect the computers to be hurled at each other to find out which one is better. And there's a lot of people LOVE to spend a lot of cash getting their computer one spot higher on the leaderboard.

 

[Schmack]

So currently there's only one person in open??? P-ing about.

Seems to be the case with a minor in v-ing.

 

[Abil Midena]

It's a player-who-supports-a-Power against another-player-who-supports-a-different-Power system. Whether or not a bunch of players who support a certain Power group together, is irrelevent.

Also, ultimately, the Powerplay gameplay is exactly the same as the BGS gameplay - the best results are attained via the movement of PvE tokens.

Also, the main problem is that Powerplay as a concept only works 100% well if the game was purely client-server, and not based on peer-to-peer networking.

Also, any dream of being able to have an influence via direct PvP, is always going to be just a dream, as long as Powerplay is played within a game with a peer-to-peer architecture.





Because perhaps a large swathe of the player base simply isn't interested in Powerplay, other than perhaps obtaining those juicy Powerplay modules which were seeded within Powerplay as an encouragement to play Powerplay? Dunno.



There we go you just answered your own question

Also, do take into account what I said above - Powerplay as a concept is a very good idea - but ultimately it doesn't fully work due to the peer-to-peer nature of ED.

I realize the main drive of your OP is the statement by Sandro, but I suggest you edit the OP at the bottom and add a section that lists the other reasons brought up in this thread why PP shouldn't go Open Only. It would provide a concise list in one place, and if you're clear about the edit being an edit, won't be seen as shifty.

 

[Rubbernuke]

You DO realise that you dont know how much hauling you need to do to make your side win, right? And you DO know that you can still fight for your faction in whatever way you want, even SHOCK HORROR SCREAMS *SOLO*, and they won't know what you're doing to undermine their efforts, right? Or is it because they're not facing what you face? Well either you're facing the black waiting for someone to come along (no risk) or you'd be facing a hauler, so you'd better be in a hauler yourself, or this isn't what you claimed you want: fairness.

How would you rather play- chase the number or fight back and kill the ships attacking your power?

The new design focusses players into areas, and you can guess where opponents will be because some places are choke-points.

In a prep race, what if I could destroy the faceless hordes racing to outprep me? What if I could deny the opposition the chance to prep? These are all options that don't exist with Solo- in Solo its a simple race with only one gear.

Solo simply makes you chase numbers and forms one dimensional gameplay. Fairness comes in opportunity, being able to attack, just as others can attack me.

 

[Sterling MH]

Seems to be the case with a minor in v-ing.

Nah, nobody mines in ED. No minors exist.

 

[kofeyh]

For those sweet, sweet Powerplay modules, natch. Frontier put those in there as a lure for players to take part in Powerplay. How many times have you seen people posting here and on Reddit that the only reason they did Powerplay was to get some of dem tasty modules? I know I've seen rather a lot of that.

Sure. And as has been repeatedly suggested, what if those modules are available from brokers with the mission system used to act as a similar model to existing 4 week powerplay merit rule.

Module tourists aren't supporting a power, so makes sense to shift that outside of the intended PvP, no?

Perhaps rather than telling the developer "no", would it not be more constructive to consider alternatives that actually help to address concerns and consider general improvements as a possible solution?

Because I think is actually huge potential that could lead to a number of solid improvement. Over saying "naff off, remember what you said 4 years ago" to the developer.

 

[Sterling MH]

How would you rather play- chase the number or fight back and kill the ships attacking your power?

I get kill credits in solo for fighting back and killing the ships attacking my power.

Which would you do, some hard graft outside your comfort zone or sealclub while you watch your numbers go up?

Perhaps rather than telling the developer "no", would it not be more constructive to consider alternatives that actually help to address concerns?

Perhaps "No" is the answer to whether they should make PP open only, the question the devs asked.

If they need an alternative, THEN THEY WILL ASK FOR IT.

 

[Schmack]

PP was not meant to be a PVP only thing. Powerplay was indeed suppose to make pvp more interesting and maybe entice people to participate in pvp more frequently but that was not the sole purpose of PP.

PP is also a way to belong to a NPC faction and a way to influence the BGS, which is something that can be done in solo and group, without having to belong to some player group trying to take over system XYZ.

I see two legit reasons for wanting PP to be in Open only:

1. To give all PP players the ability (perceived only) to affect the outcome of the power struggle without being thwarted by agents beyond your reach
2. To provide content for PvP players who currently have to grief each other over and over

The 1st is super legit, I think. The 2nd is legit, but won't gather sympathy from solo players.

 

[Rubbernuke]

OK, so what? One reason for its slow death is that you left because nobody would be ganked by you, and without a target, what can you do? Well you could have killed NPC targets quicker and more profitably for your faction. you could have "got gud" and swanned about in open in a T9 with D class everything and haul goods as fast as any soloist and BECAUSE YOU'RE SO MUCH GUDDER THAN THEY, with less risk in open.

But, no you wanted to play your game and nobody else wanted to play on your terms, so you left PP and caused its slow death. Then blamed everyone else rather than yourself.

I did not quit. I've been with Utopia for years, was on the dev council and was one of Utopias leaders. At this time I was mostly in Solo.

Now I run with the Kumo in Open.

I never left it, and have always supported Powerplay writing fiction, entering PP posters for the competition and raised awareness of Powerplays need for change.

What have you done?

 

[Genus]

hm ... bots in open may hide in timezones or poor instancing, but once spotted they will be eaten by players, plus video evidence against them collected giving frontier a chance to act on the accounts. not perfect, but night and day compared to the current situation where they can potentially roam at will in stealth mode.

yes, i guess it's theoretically possible to make them simulate fighting back but that's going to be very difficult via screen grabbing, even so patterns will become evident pretty quickly. and if someone writes a bot that is indistinguishable from a cmdr then kudos to him, but they will still explode. imo yes indeed, this can be the end of bots at least for powerplay (unless players don't care, in that case they're not a problem anymore).

Why the fascination with bots? Is it really that much of a problem? Are there any verifiable stats hanging around?

 

[lefty1117]

I did not quit. I've been with Utopia for years, was on the dev council and was one of Utopias leaders. At this time I was mostly in Solo.

Now I run with the Kumo in Open.

I never left it, and have always supported Powerplay writing fiction, entering PP posters for the competition and raised awareness of Powerplays need for change.

What have you done?

He's trolled a couple of threads.

At this point it's a circular argument and we'll just have to see where FD lands.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

You already have the "means to interfere", what you're looking for is the "means to directly engage".

Thats what interfering is. The only way to interfer with forting for sure would be direct engagement with the current solo/pg issue.

Wait so really you are saying that you hope by making PP open only it will force people out of solo and group and force them to participate in pvp which is something they more than likely do not want to participate in and why they choose to play in solo or group in the first place.

You wish to "encourage" them to do something they don't want to by taking content away from them.

Im not forcing anythhing. They consent when they fly a powerplay flag.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I get kill credits in solo for fighting back and killing the ships attacking my power.

Which would you do, some hard graft outside your comfort zone or sealclub while you watch your numbers go up?

I'll do what I need to do.

If someone is pledged to an opponent and I catch them with prep materials I'll kill them. If they are undermining my power, I'll kill them.

If my power needs me to prep, I do it. Same with fortification. I adopted systems and I'm responsible to keep them safe.

So hard graft. If people want to kill me, thats cool, I know the rules.

 

[Space Dandy]

I see two legit reasons for wanting PP to be in Open only:

1. To give all PP players the ability (perceived only) to affect the outcome of the power struggle without being thwarted by agents beyond your reach
2. To provide content for PvP players who currently have to grief each other over and over

The 1st is super legit, I think. The 2nd is legit, but won't gather sympathy from solo players.

That not legit though.

I sympathize with pvpers but taking content away from non pvpers is not legit in my book, so that's reason 2 crossed out.

For reason one well, they are not being thwarted by agents outside their reach as they can do the very same thing as those "agents" to counter them. This reason however DOES thwart the ability of non pvpers by forcing them into pvp or quitting PP altogether.

PP can be affected by pvp and non pvp methods essentially but this change is saying we are taking away the non pvp methods of affecting PP so that hopefully pvpers will have more people to fight with.....

@cheesehelmet if that's not forcing people I dunno what is....

 

[Goose4291]

That not legit though.

I sympathize with pvpers but taking content away from non pvpers is not legit in my book, so that's reason 2 crossed out.

For reason one well, they are not being thwarted by agents outside their reach as they can do the very same thing as those "agents" to counter them. This reason however DOES thwart the ability of non pvpers by forcing them into pvp or quitting PP altogether.

PP can be affected by pvp and non pvp methods essentially but this change is saying we are taking away the non pvp methods of affecting PP so that hopefully pvpers will have more people to fight with.....

Showing complete lack of powerplay experience in your post.

You cannot counter underminers, only mitigate their impact. Their actions if unopposed, will.always result in a negative outcome for your power.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

And Michael's quote has nothing to do with what Sandro might had in mind in the letter .....there is no evidence. Basically he, Micheal made sure the player knew he/she could play PP in Solo, thats all.

No. Taken in the context of the date - 3 years ago - when Powerplay didn't exist, taking into account the P2P nature of the game, taking into account it was an announcement of this new fangled Thing called Powerplay which was going to be added to E: D, taking into account that Frontier repeatedly claimed "all client connectivity modes are equal", Micheal's quote was explicitly ensuring that players knew that Powerplay could be played whilst in solo or private group client connectivity mode - also, seeing as the PP gameplay basically reflects the BGS gameplay - i.e. PvE movement of tokens.

In addition, Sandro said that Powerplay was also an incentive for the players who like direct-PvP-shooty-shooty, to be able to do so within the parameters of the Powerplay game. It was an incentive and it gave PvP-shooty-shooty types an actual reason to do so.

I have seen in the intervening years, some of the more rabid PvP-pro-bros declare that the only reason they played Powerplay was for those juicy modules, but otherwise Powerplay itself was just in the way until they could grind the merits out for those modules. And now I see some familiar faces suddenly declare their undying love for Powerplay all along, and that the only reason they didn't play it was because of this pointless argument about PP being played in modes other than Open client connectivity mode. Convenient.

This week, Sandro has proposed a change to Powerplay which alters that Powerplay game, the consequences of which would mean that even if all a player wanted was to get at one of those sweet PP modules, they'd have to clamber towards that in Open, rather than "Playing The Game Their Way", which might involve not playing in the Open client connectivity mode. Amongst other things already explained in previous posts of mine (see: P2P architecture). It's also going to be rendered a pretty pointless change once people realise they can configure things such that their game client, playing in Open client connectivity mode, could be made to simply not connect with your or my game client, rendering the whole thing pointless.

In a game with peer-to-peer networking architecture, any hopes and dreams that Powerplay is going to be this Awesome Thing Wot Can Only Be Played In Open, is just that - hopes and dreams.

 

[kofeyh]

Back to the peer to peer argument again. The circle is complete. Much like this thread.

 

[Electric Kite]

Why are you so against open mode? Its like you have this idea in your head that the minute you log in you will explode.

Its not that bad. Honestly. Your poweplay fun will not become obsolete.

Try it.

 

[Space Dandy]

Showing complete lack of powerplay experience in your post.

You cannot counter underminers, only mitigate their impact. Their actions if unopposed, will.always result in a negative outcome for your power.

Mitigating their impact IS the counter......