PP 2.0 has sent BGS into crisis

[Rat Catcher]

figured he didn't do BGS.

Minor error, but easily made by one who claims strong BGS action from their gang.

If PP 2.0 totally screws BGS manipulation, it would probably be the best thing ever introduced into the game.

It has always seemed stupid, to me, that a handful of players (relatively speaking) consider they 'own' a bunch of systems...

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

It very much depends how much of the current spike in player activity is sustained long-term, I think - the initial boost has been huge (yesterday was the highest single day for one metric I measure since the Odyssey launch) but does that die off in a month, or three months, or will it like the engineering changes in August be that rare success which permanently shifts the baseline activity upwards?

With any luck it'll transition seamlessly into colonization. I don't think powerplay 2.0 is going to cut it long term. A lot of players will be done with it, once they're R100. They'll stay pledged for the modules but won't actively pursue powerplay anymore.

 

[WILLIAM BILL ADAMA]

There's not a lot that Powerplay does that has a BGS effect at all [1] that isn't just a normal "passing traffic" action - people trade, they bounty hunt, they do donation missions, they rob a few Odyssey settlements ... that's all things that players were doing every day before the update: there's just significantly more players active in the game now, and they're perhaps doing those things in different systems and a different balance of activities to the ones they were before.

Sure, other players in "your" systems can be inconvenient for you but I doubt Frontier are going to view "more people playing the game" as a problem for them to solve, or one where there's much in the way of BGS balancing which could be done about it anyway that wouldn't also make it much harder for you to intentionally move your systems.

[1] A lot of Powerplay activities like scanning ships, moving Power cargo, killing Power ships, holoscreen hacks, etc. probably have no BGS effect at all or a fairly minimal one, of course.

I partially agree. I sense some users are ignoring important issues. "Positive action for controlling faction in certain system is not positive for faction itself and squadron." But PMF uesrs are a minority and FDev will ignore this issue too.

 

[Gabriel H]

It very much depends how much of the current spike in player activity is sustained long-term, I think - the initial boost has been huge (yesterday was the highest single day for one metric I measure since the Odyssey launch) but does that die off in a month, or three months, or will it like the engineering changes in August be that rare success which permanently shifts the baseline activity upwards?

GIven nearly every game system outside of PP 2.0 appears to be bugged to hell and back, because of PP 2.0, I wouldn't count on player numbers being sustained.

 

[Frankymole]

It will take quite a while until module shoppers (and yes, I am one too) will be R100.

Aside from the ones who are already there (see leaderboard).

 

[Happy Daze]

These lines have not moved like this ever in the 6 years I've played. The controlling faction is getting the INF in every system with PP 2. These are not small Squadrons. This is what I'm talking about. In the past a squadron could control the effects of a sudden increase or decrease in a system due to whatever reason. Now there's not much a squadron can do to control their systems.

Lavigny's Legion

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East India Company

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Paladin Consortium

Do you think this is what FDev had in mind with Pp 2?

 

[Frankymole]

It has always seemed stupid, to me, that a handful of players (relatively speaking) consider they 'own' a bunch of systems...

It seems to be a psychology of certain nations who pursue similar policies in the real world. We had some as neighbours - luckily only in-game.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Aside from the ones who are already there (see leaderboard).

Those have likely used exploits though, we'll see if they stay up there.

 

[Inscydeus]

With any luck it'll transition seamlessly into colonization. I don't think powerplay 2.0 is going to cut it long term. A lot of players will be done with it, once they're R100. They'll stay pledged for the modules but won't actively pursue powerplay anymore.

I could be wrong, but I don't think you lose access to the modules if you unpledge anymore, they function like tech broker unlocks.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

I could be wrong, but I don't think you lose access to the modules if you unpledge anymore, they function like tech broker unlocks.

You are wrong. When you unpledge you lose all progress and have to start from zero again.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The controlling faction is getting the INF in every system.

That's always been the case, though, for non-Anarchy factions
- bounties by default go to the jurisdiction owner which is in almost all locations the system controller
- trade and exploration goes the station owner which is the system controller for most easy-to-reach stations in most systems
- missions are more mixed ... but generally not amplified by Powerplay because you don't get merits for doing (most) missions, so that doesn't benefit the non-control factions enough
That's why there's all the diminishing returns curves, to try to keep the system controller from being permanently pinned to 99% everywhere.

So certainly the case where the inputs are approximately doubled (but missions perhaps rather less) would be expected to cause a big increase in controller influence in many systems, and yes, that probably will mean that some squadrons are no longer the majority source of BGS inputs in their systems.

Though the alternative is worse, right? If "passing traffic" tended to harm the (non-Anarchy) system controller you'd be looking at 20 simultaneous control conflicts rather than just the inability to direct expansions ... and any organised BGS enemy would be able to deliberately create a conflict much more easily than now, too.



(At least a few BGS groups seem to be responding to this by trying to change the incentives - undermine the systems out of Power control, and the extra player activity will hopefully go elsewhere. Exploited-level systems are pretty weak for any organised group and far too numerous for the Power groups to reinforce them all)

 

[Karmix]

Oops. Put this in the wrong thread.

 

[Gabriel H]

Now there's not much a squadron can do to control their systems.

Spot your first mistake.

 

[aRJay]

Obvoiusly i haven't personally spoken to the 'FDevs' myself ( who does? ) but i'm going to take a wild guess that most of these "problems" probably aren't exactly working-as-intended YET , or at least seemingly we're in some sort of beta-phase pre-prep analysis for upcoming new 'Colonization' feature....and all galactic implications therein.

Of course, officially all we have to go on ( so far ) is this---> https://www.elitedangerous.com/news/powerplay-20-qa

re: "Whilst the BGS doesn’t directly interact with PP 2.0, your actions when engaging with the BGS will of course have an impact as they’re impacting your pledged Power, so those BGS players can enjoy making contributions with their activities. "​

...as well as: "while Powerplay activities can influence the BGS, players interested in faction gameplay and BGS manipulation won’t feel any targeted changes in their gameplay due to Powerplay. "​

FYI, you at-tagged the wrong "Ian" there ^ lol ...

... And if you check the actual correct @Ian Doncaster 's post-history, you would realize he ( along with @Factabulous , @Ashnak , @Frankymole , @aRJay , @metatheurgist , @Jack Winter , & a few others ) actually just happens to be one of THE most caring/knowledgeable EliteD vets still posting on these forums.

Respectfully, it would appear you are wrong again sir --> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/analysing-the-thargoid-simulation.611382/

I feel unsure if my place in such company, almost as if I am the obligatory in a post correcting someone else’s mistake but thank you anyway.

 

[Gabriel H]

Lavigny's Legion
View attachment 408021

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East India Company
View attachment 408022

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Paladin Consortium
View attachment 408023

Eyeballing the averages, presuming that the period prior to 28th Oct was not an outlying lull, you are still only looking at a change of +10 systems, in an environment of over 20,000.

 

[aRJay]

With any luck it'll transition seamlessly into colonization. I don't think powerplay 2.0 is going to cut it long term. A lot of players will be done with it, once they're R100. They'll stay pledged for the modules but won't actively pursue powerplay anymore.

This was why I suggested way back that PP bribes modules should be loaned to you when you reach that level and revert to the power when you leave the issue of you using your materials to engineer their modules could have been covered by not letting them be engineered or them being preengineered or even returning the materials used.
But then I was a,so suggesting they be new modules this time with the old ones transforming into the nearest normal equivalent.

 

[Martind Forlon]

Player Squadrons who work the BGS can't keep up with the INF from PP 2.0 missions being thrown at systems causing expansions everywhere. BGS Squadrons work days and weeks to make sure they don't unintentionally expand where they don't want to go. With PP 2.0 it's extremely difficult if not impossible to stem the INF causing the System Owners to go into expansion. BGS is now out of control.

Real forward thinking FDev...

Instead yeling at devs, what to try something else ... try think how to use PP2 for your squadron advantage. BGS was always changing, sometimes to the better, sometimes to worse. But change is a life and imo the best thing on the BGS. There always are ways how to go forward, sometimes however you need go two steps back first before can change course. Now is for any BGS players much more things to do which have meaning. Merits are more or less a new currency and it is still just a begininig for PP2.

 

[Koma Pahu]

Didn’t FDev have to do some tweaking to the BGS after Odyssey was launched? Because everyone was piling in to collect new mats. Why wouldn’t they do the same here when the initial rush is over?

 

[Neestar]

These lines have not moved like this ever in the 6 years I've played. The controlling faction is getting the INF in every system with PP 2. These are not small Squadrons. This is what I'm talking about. In the past a squadron could control the effects of a sudden increase or decrease in a system due to whatever reason. Now there's not much a squadron can do to control their systems.

i have no doubt the best & brightest squadrons will do exactly the same thing as best & brightest players do: Adapt or perish.

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Do you think this is what FDev had in mind with Pp 2?

As i already mentioned in my initial reply ( which you seemed to completely ignore lol ) , we already know SOME of what they had in mind relating to your topic. Here i'll quote them ( FDev ) again for you:

• "Whilst the BGS doesn’t directly interact with PP 2.0, your actions when engaging with the BGS will of course have an impact as they’re impacting your pledged Power, so those BGS players can enjoy making contributions with their activities. "
• "while Powerplay activities can influence the BGS, players interested in faction gameplay and BGS manipulation won’t feel any targeted changes in their gameplay due to Powerplay. "

So, the real question, now post-update-gone-live ( aka semi BETA phase ) , is twofold: First, what adjustments are they currently making based on internal server metrics demonstrating unintended consequences ( aka your "squadrons effect" OP thesis, for example ) ? - And second, how does all of this potentially massive galactic overhaul tie into FDev's longterm plan for eventual Colonization feature?

I feel unsure if my place in such company, almost as if I am the obligatory in a post correcting someone else’s mistake but thank you anyway.

No, thank YOU for all of your help & intel ( in my thread & others ) . Most of you forum vet/regulars who post so often might not realize how many players/lurkers ( who never post ) truly appreciate u guys' constant passion & provisions for this Elite Dangerous. o7

Didn’t FDev have to do some tweaking to the BGS after Odyssey was launched? Because everyone was piling in to collect new mats. Why wouldn’t they do the same here when the initial rush is over?

i'd be shocked if there wasn't a major "tweaks" type hotfix patch coming up later this week or at the latest next week before American Thanksgiving holiday.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

Any long-anticipated feature update is going to attract a great number of returning players and thus have an impact on the BGS. Either this situation will be a temporary one before things settle down, or it will be the new normal for all players, regardless of their interest in BGS.

Now I don't share the attitude that some apparently have, that anything that annoys the BGS players is somehow inherently a good thing. I think that's unnecessarily mean-spirited and unsporting: spite rarely makes for a good gameplay experience. But I do think that minor faction supporters should be prepared to adapt their playstyle to new in-game realities. If Powerplay is having an impact on BGS, it does not necessarily follow that it's a mistake or unbalanced; I'd say that it's rather too early in the new phase of this game to start calling on the developers for a fix.