∞ probes?

[Frigna the Hutt]

But mah' immersion!!!

naaaah

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

@akaliel Thanks for clarification. But let's take the point literally. Let's say every ship was available with all upgrades include engineering, and we're invincible.

The logic being if you want to make the game harder you manually destruct if you want and if you want to pretend ship progression just dump 200 tones of platinum before getting in say an asp etc.
Surely that is not good game design and is not a solution to those wanting a progression based game?

 

[akaliel]

Games, like films and other forms of story telling, need to create an internally logical and consistent universe. There needs to be rules, limitations and challenges as well as creative possibilities. Even in narratives that invoke magic. Because (you guessed it): immersion, a.k.a. suspension of disbelief.

Anything that violates the internal consistency or logic of a narrative universe creates instant disbelief, and breaks the spell.

If ED were a game of magic, sure, you could have infinite probes in the shape of magic spells being cast, with their energy drawn from the Great Force that flows through the universe or some logic like that. But ED is a game of science fiction, so laws of physics apply, including the laws of thermodynamics and the basic fact that you can't magic physical probes from thin air. Not even from Bussard ram-scooped cosmic dust. So they are finite, physical objects that have to be replenished.

Similarly: materials and cargo are physical stuff that is lost when your ship is destroyed. Cartographic data is information however, so --as long as it is on some compact data storage medium that you can take with you-- would be preserved. SRVs run on electricity or fuel. Your ship has a big power plant and a big fuel tank. It makes sense that SRVs are refuelled from the ship, as they are repaired on the ship.

All these technical details need to have an inherent logic at least loosely based in scientific fact. Else ED is not a science fiction game.

You got some of your facts wrong. Mats are not destroyed with your ship. Neither is mat "data". Cartographic data is destroyed though.

 

[Stigbob]

I don't have a.corvette
Are you saying it is invincible and the only way you can die it it is by self destructing? Even if that is the case would you say that is good game design?.

Note I have accepted infinite probes are likely to happen but I am just calling foul on the logic being used against those who don't like it.

I meant to quote the guy suggesting manually dump materials if people want probe synthesis however

No overpowered and invincible are different things. Some people like overpowered stuff I don't FDEV catered to that as well as me which is a good idea. I'm OK with other peoples preferences.

Synthesizing probes is different as it would render all smaller ships useless for exploration unless they were buffed to carry more internals, that would have knock on effects on all the other ships and game balance. There's also an issue with non horizons owners. Far too much unnecessary work for such a trivial issue.

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

Games, like films and other forms of story telling, need to create an internally logical and consistent universe. There needs to be rules, limitations and challenges as well as creative possibilities. Even in narratives that invoke magic. Because (you guessed it): immersion, a.k.a. suspension of disbelief.

Anything that violates the internal consistency or logic of a narrative universe creates instant disbelief, and breaks the spell.

If ED were a game of magic, sure, you could have infinite probes in the shape of magic spells being cast, with their energy drawn from the Great Force that flows through the universe or some logic like that. But ED is a game of science fiction, so laws of physics apply, including the laws of thermodynamics and the basic fact that you can't magic physical probes from thin air. Not even from Bussard ram-scooped cosmic dust. So they are finite, physical objects that have to be replenished.

Similarly: materials and cargo are physical stuff that is lost when your ship is destroyed. Cartographic data is information however, so --as long as it is on some compact data storage medium that you can take with you-- would be preserved. SRVs run on electricity or fuel. Your ship has a big power plant and a big fuel tank. It makes sense that SRVs are refuelled from the ship, as they are repaired on the ship.

All these technical details need to have an inherent logic at least loosely based in scientific fact. Else ED is not a science fiction game.

All this arguing over infinite probes reminds me of this:

[video=youtube;lM4n1Jntqw0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM4n1Jntqw0[/video]

 

[thistle]

Far too much unnecessary work for such a trivial issue.

Precisely, it's such a trivial issue in a mechanic that overall the forum seems to like.

A wise man once said ... who cares?

 

[Cervantes01]

naaaah

The game world has to support the actions of the characters within them and as such needs to be logically consistent. Instant probes like instant ship transfers cause more problems than they solve and damage the games integrity just to keep a bunch of pew pewers happy. People who let's face it, probably don't explore.

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

The game world has to support the actions of the characters within them and as such needs to be logically consistent. Instant probes like instant ship transfers cause more problems than they solve and damage the games integrity just to keep a bunch of pew pewers happy. People who let's face it, probably don't explore.

On my way to Elite in exploration.
I'm looking forward to the new mechanics so I can get my remaining 47%.
I hate driving the SRV so infinite probes means I can carry on doing what I set out to do without an annoying distraction. Job's a good 'un.

 

[Nagual]

Games, like films and other forms of story telling, need to create an internally logical and consistent universe. There needs to be rules, limitations and challenges as well as creative possibilities. Even in narratives that invoke magic. Because (you guessed it): immersion, a.k.a. suspension of disbelief.

Anything that violates the internal consistency or logic of a narrative universe creates instant disbelief, and breaks the spell.

If ED were a game of magic, sure, you could have infinite probes in the shape of magic spells being cast, with their energy drawn from the Great Force that flows through the universe or some logic like that. But ED is a game of science fiction, so laws of physics apply, including the laws of thermodynamics and the basic fact that you can't magic physical probes from thin air. Not even from Bussard ram-scooped cosmic dust. So they are finite, physical objects that have to be replenished.

Similarly: materials and cargo are physical stuff that is lost when your ship is destroyed. Cartographic data is information however, so --as long as it is on some compact data storage medium that you can take with you-- would be preserved. SRVs run on electricity or fuel. Your ship has a big power plant and a big fuel tank. It makes sense that SRVs are refuelled from the ship, as they are repaired on the ship.

All these technical details need to have an inherent logic at least loosely based in scientific fact. Else ED is not a science fiction game.

There are other inconsistencies in the game as it is, off the top of my head stuff like we have Telepresence for multicrew and instant data transfer for getting fines and bounties but can't remote either pay them off or collect them. We have magical cargo boxes that hold materials that don't get destroyed but our data does. Soon we'll have our Codex being updated with every other players exploration data too. Our equipment or modules if you prefer get instantly changed as well. Escape pods instantly appear at stations. NPCs with unlimited ammo. The list goes on. If we can accept all of these, infinite probes shouldn't really be such a big deal.

 

[Stigbob]

There are other inconsistencies in the game as it is, off the top of my head stuff like we have Telepresence for multicrew and instant data transfer for getting fines and bounties but can't remote either pay them off or collect them. We have magical cargo boxes that hold materials that don't get destroyed but our data does. Soon we'll have our Codex being updated with every other players exploration data too. Our equipment or modules if you prefer get instantly changed as well. Escape pods instantly appear at stations. NPCs with unlimited ammo. The list goes on. If we can accept all of these, infinite probes shouldn't really be such a big deal.

Its a myth that NPC's have unlimited ammo.

 

[Cervantes01]

On my way to Elite in exploration.
I'm looking forward to the new mechanics so I can get my remaining 47%.
I hate driving the SRV so infinite probes means I can carry on doing what I set out to do without an annoying distraction. Job's a good 'un.

An explorer that doesn't like visiting planets...

 

[M00ka]

An explorer that doesn't like visiting planets...

So anyone who called themselves an explorer prior to Horizons isn't an explorer in your tiny little world ……. wow just wow

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

An explorer that doesn't like visiting planets...

I like to cruise around systems and scan gor planets. With the new update I only need to land SRV if there's somethibg I want to see.
An all round bonus from my POV.

 

[bitstorm]

Likewise, the forums are actually a very small segment of the Elite Dangerous community. Yet, for some reason, people still point out that something should / shouldn't be done because of "forums".

Sorry how many people voted again?

 

[M00ka]

There are other inconsistencies in the game as it is, off the top of my head stuff like we have Telepresence for multicrew and instant data transfer for getting fines and bounties but can't remote either pay them off or collect them. We have magical cargo boxes that hold materials that don't get destroyed but our data does. Soon we'll have our Codex being updated with every other players exploration data too. Our equipment or modules if you prefer get instantly changed as well. Escape pods instantly appear at stations. NPCs with unlimited ammo. The list goes on. If we can accept all of these, infinite probes shouldn't really be such a big deal.

I was about to post something very similar.

I think some are complaining about infinite probes simply because it is the ONLY thing they can complain about regarding what we have seen so far regarding 3.3, nothing more, nothing less!

 

[[VR] Merkir]

There are other inconsistencies in the game as it is, off the top of my head stuff like we have Telepresence for multicrew and instant data transfer for getting fines and bounties but can't remote either pay them off or collect them. We have magical cargo boxes that hold materials that don't get destroyed but our data does. Soon we'll have our Codex being updated with every other players exploration data too. Our equipment or modules if you prefer get instantly changed as well. Escape pods instantly appear at stations. NPCs with unlimited ammo. The list goes on. If we can accept all of these, infinite probes shouldn't really be such a big deal.

This. The "internally logical and consistent universe" has been dying a slow death for all the reasons given above. Infinite probes doesn't even rate on the immersion-killing scale compared to some of these.

I mean if you're serious about probe immersion, why not complain about the absurdity of a human manually targeting them? Is that really believable in a Universe where self guided probes to a precise target location would be trivial?

 

[akaliel]

Its a myth that NPC's have unlimited ammo.

I fought an npc cobra once that chaffed me 51 times.

This. The "internally logical and consistent universe" has been dying a slow death for all the reasons given above. Infinite probes doesn't even rate on the immersion-killing scale compared to some of these.

I mean if you're serious about probe immersion, why not complain about the absurdity of a human manually targeting them? Is that really believable in a Universe where self guided probes to a precise target location would be trivial?

It's a pretty silly hill to die on.

 

[DaggerSnake]

I fought an npc cobra once that chaffed me 51 times.

I watched the video twice, it was just 48.

 

[Cervantes01]

So anyone who called themselves an explorer prior to Horizons isn't an explorer in your tiny little world ……. wow just wow

Options were limited before horizons so no...

 

[Cervantes01]

I like to cruise around systems and scan gor planets. With the new update I only need to land SRV if there's somethibg I want to see.
An all round bonus from my POV.

In the new update you won't need to cruise around and scan planets anymore, sorry to spoil your fun, but you could choose to visit each planet and it's associated moons in person if it means that much to you. It would be like asking players to pretend that their probes aren't infinite if it bothers them.