∞ probes?

[insanephoton]

Players aren't going to spam probes. Because it takes a while for a batch to reach the planet. Players are motivated not to have to wait for the next batch to become available. Their pay off is time.

From the live stream it looked like you could only send out a batch of 3 t any time and let's say they take 30 seconds to do their thing*. For a par 5 planet that means you can scan it all in about a minute if you are good. if you have to carpet bomb it with 30 probes then it takes at least 5 minutes. That time soon adds up, especially in the larger systems.

*these figures are guesstimates based on what was shown and are for illustrative purposes only.

 

[PBSF Pendragon]

A huge number of aspects in all games require a little gamification to make it fun. we saw reload times in the live stream, plus the recommended number feature which for me says people will not just be spamming off probes all over the place (with the two above features, this would probably take longer and get you less money than trying to get a good and aimed spread)

But ultimately unless they made them amazingly easy to synthesize (in which case what's the point of having to do it at all) you'll need a huge number for an exploration trip of even just a few systems. Never mind the hundreds of light years or thousands of light years folks will do

Even if

I get that we don't want to make things too easy, but we also need to keep things fun and not suddenly have to prepare for a 5 month exploration trip with a year's preliminary material collecting, reduced jump ranges and all sorts of faff

 

[NeilF]

From the live stream it looked like you could only send out a batch of 3 t any time and let's say they take 30 seconds to do their thing*. For a par 5 planet that means you can scan it all in about a minute if you are good. if you have to carpet bomb it with 30 probes then it takes at least 5 minutes. That time soon adds up, especially in the larger systems.

*these figures are guesstimates based on what was shown and are for illustrative purposes only.

Just a comment on this...

Consider the purpose of the three probes at a time limit, and say the "30 seconds to do their thing" time?

ie: If probe ammo was finite, could you not then allow say ten probes at a time with say a "15 second to do their thing" time? Because if you want to expend probes quickly and less accurately, then that's your choice as it means you'll simply need to top them up quicker?

You might be in a situation where you know probe "ammunition" isn't an issue so are happy to expend them less efficiently? You now have the choice to probe a planet quicker... You make the choice...

Just an observation...

 

[Weps]

Players aren't going to spam probes. Because it takes a while for a batch to reach the planet. Players are motivated not to have to wait for the next batch to become available. Their pay off is time.

Probes refresh in the clip at a rate of 1 probe every 3 seconds. You can fire a probe every 3 seconds.

Also if you already know the required vectors for each of the probes which will result in a total mapping with the least amount of probes, you don't need to wait for them to reach the planet. Just spam them as quickly as the mechanic allows it (9-10 seconds for two full clips, less with engineering) and watch as the planet turns blue. Adam did it on stream.

I bet we can even write some AHK bot to do it for us.

 

[NeilF]

But ultimately unless they made them amazingly easy to synthesize (in which case what's the point of having to do it at all) you'll need a huge number for an exploration trip of even just a few systems. Never mind the hundreds of light years or thousands of light years folks will do

My example from a few pages back (with the suggestion we need to fuel scoop in metalic asteroid rings to generate more probes)?:-

The idea is to make wise, considered game choices worthwhile and reward it. eg: I'm on my way SC'ing to a rocky planet to "probe" it. While in SC I duck into the ORREY MAP and see a planet with metalic rings in enroute. I remember my probes are down to 50 so consider the situation, and decide I'll stop off at that ringed world, probe it while I'm there, and also duck into the ring to quicky top up my probes.


I'd envisage you'd fill up your probes in just 10-20 seconds... And we'd be talking about this being necessary say once ever 3-4hrs of exploration time? So potentially just minutes per numerous exploration hours? But it's something you can be given the chance to do well or badly. Something else to consider and juggle around for example.

 

[Stealthie]

A huge number of aspects in all games require a little gamification to make it fun. we saw reload times in the live stream, plus the recommended number feature which for me says people will not just be spamming off probes all over the place (with the two above features, this would probably take longer and get you less money than trying to get a good and aimed spread)

But ultimately unless they made them amazingly easy to synthesize (in which case what's the point of having to do it at all) you'll need a huge number for an exploration trip of even just a few systems. Never mind the hundreds of light years or thousands of light years folks will do

Even if

I get that we don't want to make things too easy, but we also need to keep things fun and not suddenly have to prepare for a 5 month exploration trip with a year's preliminary material collecting, reduced jump ranges and all sorts of faff

In that case, why make them "probes" at all?

Why not make them some kind of "microwave scanner burst" instead and avoid creating the issue at all?

Personally, I'm not that fussed whether they're infinite or not but what I do care about is the game remaining consistent to it's own internal logic and the dev's being too lazy to bother ensuring that happens.

The game's already got some gigantic inconsistencies in it and my big hope for this year was that they'd be resolving some of them and not adding more of the bloody things.

 

[NeilF]

Probes refresh in the clip at a rate of 1 probe every 3 seconds. You can fire a probe every 3 seconds.

Also if you already know the required vectors for each of the probes which will result in a total mapping with the least amount of probes, you don't need to wait for them to reach the planet. Just spam them as quickly as the mechanic allows it (9-10 seconds for two full clips, less with engineering) and watch as the planet turns blue. Adam did it on stream.

I bet we can even write some AHK bot to do it for us.

Thanks... So to clarify, there is no limit to the number in the air at once? The limitation is 3 seconds between each firing?

 

[Stigbob]

In that case, why make them "probes" at all?

Why not make them some kind of "microwave scanner burst" instead and avoid creating the issue at all?

Personally, I'm not that fussed whether they're infinite or not but what I do care about is the game remaining consistent to it's own internal logic and the dev's being too lazy to bother ensuring that happens.

The game's already got some gigantic inconsistencies in it and my big hope for this year was that they'd be resolving some of them and not adding more of the bloody things.

You can't have that the microwave bursts would have to stop at 3km to make them game consistent.

 

[Stealthie]

You can't have that the microwave bursts would have to stop at 3km to make them game consistent.

Why?

 

[bitstorm]

Same position here - If I had to Fuel Scoop at a gas giant or in a specific ring type for 20 seconds or so, for each 4-5hrs of general exploration, that would seem fair to me...

It would give me just enough of a mechanic to create a "concern" for me to do and manage "well"...

For me it's better than fair, I legitimately WANT to scoop gas giants (maybe rings).

Probes seem a good enough excuse as any to put that in.

Only concern I'd have with it is if Frontier already had more interesting plans for scooping gas bodies on the way, and this would somehow conflict.

 

[Weps]

Thanks... So to clarify, there is no limit to the number in the air at once? The limitation is 3 seconds between each firing?

That I don't know... On stream when asked about firing more probes at once, the answer was "we just did that", but Adam had fired the last two probes in his clip.

I think it's reasonable to assume that you will be able to fire probes from a new clip even if the previous ones have not yet reached the planet. Otherwise you're talking an easy 20s gratuitous wait time per clip (or a lot more depending on how far you are from the planet). That sounds far worse than any finite-probe-mat-gathering boogieman-mechanic people seem to be so scared of in this thread....

 

[Stigbob]

Why?

Lasers.

 

[Stealthie]

Lasers.

What's the range of laser weapons got to do with the range of a planetary scanner?

Speaking of which, we already have a DSS which can scan the surface of a planet at incredible ranges so I guess the range of laser weapons has chuff-all to do with how that works.

 

[Stealthie]

As with infinite probes that doesn't bother me at all.

Whether it bothers you has no bearing one whether or not it's consistent with the existing internal logic of the game.

Which it's not.

 

[bitstorm]

Whether it bothers you has no bearing one whether or not it's consistent with the existing internal logic of the game.

Which it's not.

You wont get any decent discussion out of Stigbob, his entire purpose here seems to be to make low effort, snarky, dismissive or evasive posts.

If you're expecting any sort of honest or reasonable discussion, well good luck with that. [up]

 

[Stealthie]

I'm fine with inconsistencies.

It would have been simpler if you'd just led with that.

Not that it really adds much to the discussion.

 

[Oss133]

Not that it really adds much to the discussion.

The tagline for this whole thread.

 

[NeilF]

The tagline for this whole thread.

Well, "not that it really adds much to the discussion" certainly covers a certain group of posters in this thread...

But if we ignore the needlessly insulting, cynical, almost toxic posts of some of that minority, only here seemingly to fire off needless sarcasm and jibes, I've quite enjoyed spit balling some ideas around with the rest of the (constructive) participants.

 

[5AnaHalfHatsize]

Can someone please summarise why this thread is still going after a sarcastic one line start?

 

[NeilF]

On a side note, this does kind of remind me of the number of times I thought it would be beneficial just for overall gameplay for ships to have a simple general swiss army knife of tools available to them. eg: Just a general purpose simple laser (eg: just to get materials out of asteroids), and a single general purpose limpet (to collect/deliver).

Consider the number of times gameplay presents itself, but you can't be enjoyed because you don't have a laser or limpet to achieve/help with something simple.


Last night's livestream sort of demonstrated there's surely lots of time when gameplay is cut needlessly short simply down to lack of ways to participate - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCy1ZYjLvdQ&t=25m

ie: Who carries a fuel limpet with them as standard? But if every ship had a rudimentary multi-purpose limpet which could be used, how much more gameplay opportunities would be offered instead of needlessly denied?


So, back to your point, if every ship had a rudamentary laser and limpet, we could get the necessary materials from asteroids to generate probes (under the assumption the materials would be easy to find and only a tiny amount would be required to make a lot of probes, and non-horizon owners wouldn't be comprised )

It's interesting in some discussions about last night's livestream how many people have pointed out, the lack of just basic tools means so much gameplay is needlessy killed.

ie: Many raised the Scenario where you need to deliver fuel. If you has a basic multi-purpose limpet to allow you to at least participate in basic levels of gameplay, it could open up so many opportunities needlessly restricted at the moment.

Can someone please summarise why this thread is still going after a sarcastic one line start?

Because some civil people then started talking, and enjoyed spitballing some points around?

Does that help? Summarised enough?

I assume you'll now hopefully move onto all those other threads on your busy round to question why people are talking in those too?