∞ probes?

[bitstorm]

Yes, fuel scooping near appropriate gas giants could also be a nice way to reammo probes

And this should be at a significant rate (eg: 1 or more a second).

Something like enough material in a second for generating 10-20, so just do a 10-20 second flyby and you're good.

 

[Stigbob]

Something like 10 a second, just do a 10-20 second flyby and you're good.

If its that fast you may as well just have infinite, easier for the devs as well.

 

[bitstorm]

If its that fast you may as well just have infinite, easier for the devs as well.

Except it has the added bonus that you get to scoop from gas giants.

 

[Stigbob]

Except it has the added bonus that you get to scoop from gas giants.

I'm alright not doing that unnecessary thing.

 

[CMDR MICHAEL AAGAARD]

Over the last few pages i've seen some people bring up the delayed ship transfer once again and how it would have been better with instant ship transfer over delayed, but If the ship transfer was instant and you could move a Corvette with a jump range of 10ly from the bubble to Colonia in a few seconds(instantly) would that not mess with the scale of the universe/game world and make jump range limits meaningless?

If we did have instant ship transfer why not just give every ship ∞ fuel and get rid of jump range limits and where in a system you could jump to? want to jump from beagle point to hutton orbital? sure just plot a route there and make one jump and you will arrive at hutton orbital without having to go there in supercruise from the main star.

Having ∞ probes is not going to mess with the scale of the universe/game world like the instant ship transfer would.

I would still vote for delayed ship transfer again today if i was asked. If i did have to compromise when it comes to the probe discussion, then i would go with ∞ standard probes and craftable "better probes" that would be limited.

 

[Stigbob]

Over the last few pages i've seen some people bring up the delayed ship transfer once again and how it would have been better with instant ship transfer over delayed, but If the ship transfer was instant and you could move a Corvette with a jump range of 10ly from the bubble to Colonia in a few seconds(instantly) would that not mess with the scale of the universe/game world and make jump range limits meaningless?

If we did have instant ship transfer why not just give every ship ∞ fuel and get rid of jump range limits and where in a system you could jump to? want to jump from beagle point to hutton orbital? sure just plot a route there and make one jump and you will arrive at hutton orbital without having to go there in supercruise from the main star.

Having ∞ probes is not going to mess with the scale of the universe/game world like the instant ship transfer would.

I would still vote for delayed ship transfer again today if i was asked. If i did have to compromise when it comes to the probe discussion, then i would go with ∞ standard probes and craftable "better probes" that would be limited.

I think its about end users confusing themselves with members of the board and resenting decisions going against them or being left out of it.

Ship transfers is the same.

 

[lecorsobreton]

Over the last few pages i've seen some people bring up the delayed ship transfer once again and how it would have been better with instant ship transfer over delayed, but If the ship transfer was instant and you could move a Corvette with a jump range of 10ly from the bubble to Colonia in a few seconds(instantly) would that not mess with the scale of the universe/game world and make jump range limits meaningless?

If we did have instant ship transfer why not just give every ship ∞ fuel and get rid of jump range limits and where in a system you could jump to? want to jump from beagle point to hutton orbital? sure just plot a route there and make one jump and you will arrive at hutton orbital without having to go there in supercruise from the main star.

Having ∞ probes is not going to mess with the scale of the universe/game world like the instant ship transfer would.

I would still vote for delayed ship transfer again today if i was asked. If i did have to compromise when it comes to the probe discussion, then i would go with ∞ standard probes and craftable "better probes" that would be limited.

If you still pay the transfer fee, it doesn't matter wether you have to wait 20m/hrs/days. I voted for delayed ship transfer back then (got caught by the immersion crew), but if I were given the choice again, I'd vote for instant transfer while keeping the same fee. Relocating the fleet to Colonia for example would still cost a fortune.

I really hope Frontier will not cave and keep ∞ probes.

 

[Stealthie]

I'm alright not doing that unnecessary thing.

Isn't doing currently unnecessary things pretty-much the entire basis for the update to exploration?

 

[TankMaster]

Geez, at this pace this thread will be 150 pages long by the time beta hits.

 

[NeilF]

If its that fast you may as well just have infinite, easier for the devs as well.

But it's not the speed of probe generation. It's the planning/consideration/management of their generation.

A scenario again. I'm in a system, and via the FSS spot a rocky planet with some POIs on it, so decide to head off to it to "probe it". HOWEVER, I also notice there's a ringed planet in the system, and by looking at the orrery map (I'm not doing much else in SC), I realise this ringed planet in basically enroute. Do I stop off there on the way to "fuel scoop" there to generate more probes? Or do I wait for another system (I've still got 50!).

If its that fast you may as well just have infinite, easier for the devs as well.

Fuel scooping is pretty quick typically. eg: 10-20 seconds. So why not have infinite fuel, easier for the devs as well. Indeed, why give the player things to consider and juggle to best effect when such considerations can simply be removed?

 

[Unknown Zombie]

Why do people keep bringing up "infinite ammo" as a logical fallacy to argue against infinite probes as if there is no infinite ammo in the game? Laser weapons are infinite ammo, and you don't have to search very hard on the forums to find threads where people talk about all-laser builds specifically because that means they will have infinite ammo.

Others are hung up on decision-making processes. "I'm out of probes -- Better farm up some more." doesn't seem like much of a decision to me.

Frontier want players to be able to freely explore the neat things that can be found on planet surfaces. Up to now finding those things is something that a small portion of the player base has the skill to reliably do. Players have lamented in the past that Frontier puts too much of the game's features/lore behind puzzles that must be solved by external means.

Infinite probes is basically FD throwing us all a bone, giving us free license to explore and find the cool things that they spent a lot of time creating via in-game means. I am 100% in favor of infinite probes.

 

[thistle]

Over the last few pages i've seen some people bring up the delayed ship transfer once again and how it would have been better with instant ship transfer over delayed, but If the ship transfer was instant and you could move a Corvette with a jump range of 10ly from the bubble to Colonia in a few seconds(instantly) would that not mess with the scale of the universe/game world and make jump range limits meaningless?

If we did have instant ship transfer why not just give every ship ∞ fuel and get rid of jump range limits and where in a system you could jump to? want to jump from beagle point to hutton orbital? sure just plot a route there and make one jump and you will arrive at hutton orbital without having to go there in supercruise from the main star.

Having ∞ probes is not going to mess with the scale of the universe/game world like the instant ship transfer would.

I would still vote for delayed ship transfer again today if i was asked. If i did have to compromise when it comes to the probe discussion, then i would go with ∞ standard probes and craftable "better probes" that would be limited.

Exactly, it would actually break the game having instant transfers to Colonia. Within hours the forum would literally collapse under the weight of players demanding they should clearly be able to fly out to Colonia instantly in their current ship.

It would be bizarre.

edit - the only real argument imo is whether we should be charged for transfers. I'm happy with it as it is, and I'd be fine if it didn't cost.

 

[NeilF]

Something like enough material in a second for generating 10-20, so just do a 10-20 second flyby and you're good.

Yes. If there's 200 probes of ammo being stored, then yes, "fuel scooping" in an appropriate ring, or at a gas giant, could give you 10-20 or so a second. So you'll be full again literally in a dozen second or less no matter what.

And with 200 probes, this is something you'd only have to do for example with every 25 fully "probed" worlds. The ammo could be increased to make it an ever rarer requirement...

Why do people keep bringing up "infinite ammo" as a logical fallacy to argue against infinite probes as if there is no infinite ammo in the game? Laser weapons are infinite ammo, and you don't have to search very hard on the forums to find threads where people talk about all-laser builds specifically because that means they will have infinite ammo.

Others are hung up on decision-making processes. "I'm out of probes -- Better farm up some more." doesn't seem like much of a decision to me.

Frontier want players to be able to freely explore the neat things that can be found on planet surfaces. Up to now finding those things is something that a small portion of the player base has the skill to reliably do. Players have lamented in the past that Frontier puts too much of the game's features/lore behind puzzles that must be solved by external means.

Infinite probes is basically FD throwing us all a bone, giving us free license to explore and find the cool things that they spent a lot of time creating via in-game means. I am 100% in favor of infinite probes.

Yes and no...

By this ethos make fuel infinite too.

And the premise of any mechanic is to allow players to have a cause and effect, choices, and reward them for good gameplay/choices. eg: My example from above - I'm in a system, and via the FSS spot a rocky planet with some POIs on it, so decide to head off to it to "probe it". HOWEVER, I also notice there's a ringed planet in the system, and by looking at the orrery map (I'm not doing much else in SC), I realise this ringed planet in basically enroute (where I can fuel scoop more probes). Do I stop off there on the way to "fuel scoop" there to generate more probes? Or do I wait for another system (I've still got 50 probes!).

^ I've been offered choices on how to keep my probe stock up. I'm rewarded for more efficient probe usage (having to replenish them less often), and rewarded by being situationally aware and for example visiting plantetary rings to "fuel scoop" more probes when convenient and sensible.

It's interesting to me the above scenario even gives some use/importance to the orrery map...

 

[Ignition]

Geez, at this pace this thread will be 150 pages long by the time beta hits.

And what's the problem with that?

 

[Nagual]

And what's the problem with that?

Avoid having so many pages by changing your number of posts visible in your forum settings. Unfortunately there isn't an infinite option, it only goes up to 200...

 

[Ignition]

Why do people keep bringing up "infinite ammo" as a logical fallacy to argue against infinite probes as if there is no infinite ammo in the game? Laser weapons are infinite ammo, and you don't have to search very hard on the forums to find threads where people talk about all-laser builds specifically because that means they will have infinite ammo.

Others are hung up on decision-making processes. "I'm out of probes -- Better farm up some more." doesn't seem like much of a decision to me.

Frontier want players to be able to freely explore the neat things that can be found on planet surfaces. Up to now finding those things is something that a small portion of the player base has the skill to reliably do. Players have lamented in the past that Frontier puts too much of the game's features/lore behind puzzles that must be solved by external means.

Infinite probes is basically FD throwing us all a bone, giving us free license to explore and find the cool things that they spent a lot of time creating via in-game means. I am 100% in favor of infinite probes.

FD is afraid of people liking the godlike and simplistic honk gameplay. Thats why they came with another simplistic approach.

It all depends on balance.
If you had to craft the probes with basic mats and the ammount crafted were 40 or 50 per time then you could easily map a lot of bodies without issue (taking as an example what we saw in the stream)

Its all about a balance of difficulty in gathering mats, ammount required to craft and ammount of probes required to scan.

 

[thistle]

And what's the problem with that?

Well, as we all know, if someone is wrong on the internet, we must respond.

 

[NeilF]

FD is afraid of people liking the godlike and simplistic honk gameplay. Thats why they came with another simplistic approach.

It all depends on balance.
If you had to craft the probes with basic mats and the ammount crafted were 40 or 50 per time then you could easily map a lot of bodies without issue (taking as an example what we saw in the stream)

Its all about a balance of difficulty in gathering mats, ammount required to craft and ammount of probes required to scan.

But as pointed out, using mats means non-Horizons owners, or people out in the black without an SRV will be stuffed.

Hence suggestions such as "fuel scooping" near a gas giant or in an appropriate type of planetary ring for X seconds to top up your probe ammo... All explorers will have a fuel scoop


And I agree, I'm up for simple mechanics being required for CMDRs to keep their probe ammo stocked; We need more things to be able to do "well", not simply less things to do.

 

[Stigbob]

Isn't doing currently unnecessary things pretty-much the entire basis for the update to exploration?

Arguably its fundamentally what video games are. This one doesn't add any fun though.

 

[Ignition]

But as pointed out, using mats means non-Horizons owners, or people out in the black without an SRV will be stuffed.

Hence suggestions such as "fuel scooping" near a gas giant or in an appropriate type of planetary ring for X seconds to top up your probe ammo... All explorers will have a fuel scoop


And I agree, I'm up for simple mechanics being required for CMDRs to keep their probe ammo stocked; We need more things to be able to do "well", not simply less things to do.

I wonder how many players still plays Elite without the Horizons update since it was really cheap several times.

Or what if basic materials could also be found in USS.
The scoop is another thing FD should look at because the mechanic is... another wait still doing nothing.

But anyway I don't really care too much from where the materials come from but I care about my ship, systems, equipment, ammo, and Elite needs more things to take care off and not less.