∞ probes?

[Factabulous]

So Obsidian Ant's poll essentially this:
A) slow probes <-- aka one
B) slow probes and all the fast probes you want to pay for <-- aka both
C) all the fast probes you want to pay for <-- aka the other

Is it any surprise at all that give the choice of one, the other or both that people chose both?

That's not a choice, that's human nature!

Page 57:

Given the choice between 'free' and 'moar' they chose 'moar'. Colour me amazed.

 

[Micha]

If you're conflating the two it's probably worth thinking about the reasons WHY people object to craftable and if that necessarily must apply to finite, you'll find the answer is no. Hence the discussion.

That's obvious by skimming some of the replies in the poll. People think you get 10 probes, then have to spend hours hunting for mats.

Whereas all the proposed options are for thousands of probes, and a few minutes max to harvest some common mats.


...and round and round we go!

 

[bitstorm]

So Obsidian Ant's poll essentially this:
A) slow probes <-- aka one
B) slow probes and all the fast probes you want to pay for <-- aka both
C) all the fast probes you want to pay for <-- aka the other

Is it any surprise at all that give the choice of one, the other or both that people chose both?

That's not a choice, that's human nature!

Yeah, I said that the moment it was posted, but y'know. Gotta have the polls. [blah]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7096785&viewfull=1#post7096785

edit: Factabulous beat you by two days.

To be honest I kinda wish 3rd party polls were banned here too, they're just a rallying call for morons.

 

[Julio Montega]

But so what?

A badly written poll was taken.

So what?

It just says that people are fine with the option to craft probes,
that are better than stock on top of it.
How the choices were written it cannot say much more.

We need a more detailled poll to catch the playerbase:

1)Stock Probes, what do you want to see:
A) Energy pulse with chargeup, like the honk or the base scan we have now, infinite usability
B) Probe, as shown in the livestream with infinite reloads
C) Probe, as shown in the livestream with ammo based reloads
D) Something different

2)Would you like to see additionally improved probes craftable/buyable, with better scan radii?
A) No crafting/Synthesis wished for
B) Craftable Probes with increased performance for materials (synthesis)
c) Buyable Probes ammo based with better performance
D) Craftable Probes like in 2-B) but with ties to USSes, allowing to scoop up damaged probes for cheaper synthesis
E) Different

I personally am 1-A and 2-D.

 

[Stealthie]

10% support for finite probes.

Is 10% a number too small to be taken seriously?

It's just that the entire poll is way less than 10% of ED's player base so, y'know....

 

[Quantis Trap]

Yep, it wasn't an immersion vs grind choice people were making in that poll! I was just a shopping experience!

 

[bitstorm]

It just says that people are fine with the option to craft probes,
that are better than stock on top of it.
How the choices were written it cannot say much more.

We need a more detailled poll to catch the playerbase:

1)Stock Probes, what do you want to see:
A) Energy pulse with chargeup, like the honk or the base scan we have now, infinite usability
B) Probe, as shown in the livestream with infinite reloads
C) Probe, as shown in the livestream with ammo based reloads
D) Something different

2)Would you like to see additionally improved probes craftable/buyable, with better scan radii?
A) No crafting/Synthesis wished for
B) Craftable Probes with increased performance for materials (synthesis)
c) Buyable Probes ammo based with better performance
D) Craftable Probes like in 2-B) but with ties to USSes, allowing to scoop up damaged probes for cheaper synthesis
E) Different

I personally am 1-A and 2-D.

Maybe, I'd lean to a scooping :

• Gas giants
• Rings
• Maybe the new fancy gas clouds?
• Or similar

solution.

Explorers do scooping don't they, and they are happy to fly to things, let them scoop stuffs - like feeding whales!

Not really wanting the existing "find => collect => craft" mechanic involved as it seems to grindy for an activity that you want to "flow" such as exploration.

But I think anything like the above (polls) should be after it's been tried.

Like there may be much bigger issues with the exploration implementation that need addressing. ie maybe the "all or nothing" scanning thing.

Software dev is iterative, get a feature in test it out see how it goes, improve it, test it out, improve it and so on until you have something great.

It's fine to talk about it but I don't think we should be putting the improve step before the test step at this time.

 

[Quantis Trap]

Personally, I'd prefer Frontier treated the probe launcher part of the scanner like the Point Defence and give it 4000 amo which is re-loadable up to 4000 again with basic mats or medium mats or premium mats. In other words almost infinite with three grades just like our other amo refills.

 

[Julio Montega]

Maybe, I'd lean to a scoop gas giants or rings or the new gas clouds or similar solution. Not really wanting the existing "collect => craft" mechanic involved as I find it too grindy.

But I think anything like the above should be after it's been tried.

I mean there may be much bigger issues, that need addressing.

Software dev is iterative, get a feature in test it out see how it goes, improve it, test it, improve it and so on until you have something great.

It's fine to talk about it but I don't think we should be putting the improve step before the test step.

That mentality shredded combat balance and piracy already.
Player experience is something to factor in, the devs sadly have none,
as they said themselves they hardly play the game themselves.

Measures need to be thought through before the beta, as after those 4 weeks
there is only a small gap in time till release.
Beta is too late to start the thought process.

 

[insanephoton]

That's obvious by skimming some of the replies in the poll. People think you get 10 probes, then have to spend hours hunting for mats.

Whereas all the proposed options are for thousands of probes, and a few minutes max to harvest some common mats.


...and round and round we go!

FD originally said 200. Absolutely no-one apart from you has thought 10 probes or hours of searching. However once you start talking thousands of probes, just how often will you need to top up? Too often and it's an annoying chore, too infrequent and you may as well have infinite. Maybe it doesn't take hours to find a few mats, but it certainly takes minutes. First you have to find a suitable source (depending on which method people propose), get to it (e.g. land on a planet), then spend a few minute with the rng game of 'hunt the element'.

 

[Factabulous]

Player experience is something to factor in, the devs sadly have none,
as they said themselves they hardly play the game themselves.

Source please! Last I heard devs play the game, so I guess u trollin' ?

 

[Julio Montega]

Source please! Last I heard devs play the game, so I guess u trollin' ?

Maaaan, that was in one of the livestreams past.
Something along the lines:
"Are we playing the game? Maybe not as much as we should..."

Given i formulated that a bit more pointy, to stab some meat.

 

[Exeider]

Phoo, is this thread still going. Damn.

At least the vitriol in here isn't Gnosis level bad. Now that was some world class toxic hate. So acidic it could strip the paid paint jobs off a hull.

 

[bitstorm]

That mentality shredded combat balance and piracy already.
Player experience is something to factor in, the devs sadly have none,
as they said themselves they hardly play the game themselves.

Measures need to be thought through before the beta, as after those 4 weeks
there is only a small gap in time till release.
Beta is too late to start the thought process.

Sure but let's be honest this isn't comparable to something like PvP balance.

And the current probe implementation is the most inoffensive of the options on the table.


The exploration stuff coming in involves big changes, and it won't be obvious to Frontier at this time how the player base will take to it.

I think Frontier have to be ready and willing to make some changes if need be, I'm not saying every minor and/or idiotic request anyone makes must be pandered to, but if the players do find some issue and/or they can come up with some reasonable improvements, I think Frontier need to be willing to look at it and be ready to spend some time on it.

As I say lots of unknowns, the changes are so big and important that it shouldn't just be about the players finding bugs, it should be about honing exploration.

I hope Frontier see it like that too.

 

[Factabulous]

Maaaan, that was in one of the livestreams past.
Something along the lines:
"Are we playing the game? Maybe not as much as we should..."

Given i formulated that a bit more pointy, to stab some meat.

So, trolling - thx for the clarification [up]

Anyway, back to the infinity wars!

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Is 10% a number too small to be taken seriously?

It's just that the entire poll is way less than 10% of ED's player base so, y'know....

The poll I was doing was taking a complete different direction but then the link has been removed by the forum's moderator.... it's a conspiracy

 

[bitstorm]

True!

 

[Julio Montega]

Sure but let's be honest this isn't comparable to something like PvP balance.

And the current probe implementation is the most inoffensive of the options on the table.


The exploration stuff coming in involves big changes, and it won't be obvious to Frontier at this time how the player base will take to it.

I think Frontier have to be ready and willing to make some changes if need be, I'm not saying every minor and/or idiotic request anyone makes must be pandered to, but if the players do find some issue and/or they can come up with some reasonable improvements, I think Frontier need to be willing to look at it and be ready to spend some time on it.

As I say lots of unknowns, the changes are so big and important that it shouldn't just be about the players finding bugs, it should be about honing exploration.

I hope Frontier see it like that too.

How long are you willing to wait on a fleshed out game,
that had released 4 years past?
How long are you willing to wait to see FD get to work on your
preferred mechanic again, after they just minimally tweaked it?

The current probe implementation is infinite,
that very well leads to people playing other jobs, than exploration
mainly, shouting out in rage for seeing one part of the game becoming lax.
It is not about denying that running out of probes in the black is very uncomfortable
and involves backtracking of hours, if not days or weeks, it is about eliminating backtracking
for one job and updating it, but keeping it for the others.

Compare this situation with piracy in Premium Beta.
We were able to drain ships completely of cargo by using weaponry,
until the changes came and introduced limpets, making weapon based theft
hard and not profitting (destroy module = no more cargo, unlike before).
Now the most used method, akin to the new probe changes, is ammo based limpets.
Run dry and you need to resynthesize/aquire them, or you cannot continue to do what
you like -> backtracking, since there STILL is no NPC interaction for piracy (demand surrender/cargo).

I dislike backtracking and i am not advocating to have exploration prone to the same problem.
That is why i'd like to see explorers have the ability to map a planet infinitely using a close range scanner (current distance 33 LS or such),
and have the option to additionally use probes, but have them be ammo based.

 

[bitstorm]

I dislike backtracking and i am not advocating to have exploration prone to the same problem.
That is why i'd like to see explorers have the ability to map a planet infinitely using a close range scanner (current distance 33 LS or such),
and have the option to additionally use probes, but have them be ammo based.

Would you class scooping from a gas giant, ring, or one of the fancy gas cloud things backtracking?

Not sure I would because it's so closely tied to existing explorer activities. And you could say under the new system there'll be a lot less flying around, scooping from something just adds a bit of flying back in.

There's probably even an argument to say it's a needed extension to exploration, as I've said I WANT to scoop from gas giants, just as a thing, nothing to do with probes. This seems almost an excuse to add that in.

I mean just scoop and probes auto-build, no crafting, no SRV, don't even have to come out of supercruise.

 

[Julio Montega]

Do you class scooping from a gas giant, ring, or one of the fancy gas cloud things backtracking?

Not sure I would because it's so closely tied to existing explorer activities.

There's probably even an argument to say it's a needed extension to exploration, as I've said I WANT to scoop from gas giants, just as a thing, nothing to do with probes.

I do scoop in my pirate ship, as i am a vagabond
never staying for too long in one place.
Scoops are no "gameplay specific modules",
they are useful for many ways to play.

Contrary to synthesis or returning to docking bay for
refuel, repair and rearm it can be done on the fly,
without material costs.
Therefore it is no backtracking imo.

Gas harvesting, yeah talked about that 2 years ago,
still not here.