Procedural Dialogue Trees

One major thing that the game has always felt like it was missing was a way to communicate with NPCs. It's an obvious thought that has likely been mentioned many times, but I feel it's an important one to bring life and variety and more immersion to the game.

I love Elite: Dangerous, which has led me to watch videos of the previous Elite games (I don't know how I never played them, I would've loved them back in the day). And then in Frontier, I see exactly what I'm hoping for-- dialogue trees, and I assume they were procedurally done (if I have the terms wrong, hopefully ya at least get what I mean). You could demand cargo, pretend to be injured, try to trick someone, etc etc. Sometimes it'd work, sometimes it wouldn't, and either way it creates a story and memory all on its own.

The devs are great at RNG and producing content procedurally, and I am positive they could do a great job with dialogue trees. Each NPC would have a "personality" determined by their faction, career, allegiance, hidden factors, etc, and the exact specifics and range of nuance created with RNG. The player has set messages they can send, such as the normal pirate ones, or try to befriend them, small talk, ask for any POI in the area, if they've seen a CMDR recently, if they're a cop you can try to bribe them (as in Frontier), some cops are corrupt and some NPCs try to give ya a sob story to trick ya, you can try to pull rank if ya outrank them with a Superpower, allied faction members are more friendly, and so on.

NPCs could ask for help as they realize they're about to be interdicted, or other in-world situations... stuff similar to Red Dead Redemption where ya organically come across situations where you can help or make things worse.

Countless things could be done with it, and I wouldn't expect voice acting or anything aside from branching dialogue trees that can go in a lotta different directions depending on the situation and the NPC's personality, in ways we can't always predict but use our knowledge of the world to try to guess the appropriate responses.

I don't need Space Legs or any fancy stuff, just some dialogue trees pleeze!
 
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Yes sir!

This could add alot to pve piracy, all kind of missions and the overall feel of a living game. I wonder why it isn't in the game already...
 
Yes sir!

This could add alot to pve piracy, all kind of missions and the overall feel of a living game. I wonder why it isn't in the game already...

Yeah, naturally I agree... I think it'd be relatively simple compared to the next-gen longterm goals Elite has (atmospheric landings, Space Legs, procedural cities to travel in, etc etc), and pay off in a big way for every player and every playstyle. Unfortunately, I am a doofus and don't _really_ know if it's any easier than the Big Ideas, but since it's been in games for decades I assume it is.

I'm sure we can think of countless missions that would use it, and simply countless ways it'd be used just traveling around. The earlier Elite games had it, I'm sure they get what it can do in a game, and I feel ED is begging for it. It'd be a game changing and game enriching addition in my opinion, and help us be on the way towards true consistent "emergent content".

(And I'd love persistent NPCs, but that feels like it'd be much more difficult, so I'd happily "settle" for deep branching dialogue trees and NPCs with unique personalities)
 
They weren't really dialogue trees in the previous games, more a set amount of questions that could be asked, each with a particular response. They do a much better job (in my opinion) of investing the player in the mission though, compared to ED's offerings.

I like your idea though, having a small branching dialogue could give the impression of haggling over the price, for example. Oh for the day when a pair of passengers (and their droids) offer me two thousand now, plus fifteen when they reach their destination :)
 
They weren't really dialogue trees in the previous games, more a set amount of questions that could be asked, each with a particular response. They do a much better job (in my opinion) of investing the player in the mission though, compared to ED's offerings.

I get ya, thanks for clarifying! That seems an important distinction, and still simply better and more engaging than what we got. And could likely be well improved on to mitigate too-similar responses and having set ways to handle each interaction.

Haggling over prices is another great example of something that gets opened up... imagine not "just" going to a mission board for work, but picking up fun and profitable missions by random encounters with NPCs that ya didn't plan for, it just seems so do-able to me.

I saved a trader from some pirates by entering a USS last night, and I just wish they were screaming "HELP HELP I'M BEING INTERDICTED" in the local system chat before the NPC pirates get him. This sort of thing could help get rid of the empty placeholder-y USS mechanics, giving a player a choice whether to intervene or help the pirates and be in control of what you're doing the entire way.

Then once branching procedural dialogue trees and RNG NPC personalities are locked in, we can do fun "Life Quests" for our NPC crew members! That's just another dumb idea I had that has prolly been thought up by others countless times, but with the backstories of our NPCs I wish they had a procedural Life Quest that you can help them with. Ya get to know them better via dialogue trees, learn of what their issue is, you earn their trust along the way (or earn their disdain), and then (for example) you learn their child had been kidnapped by pirates in a system 200ly over and you go and investigate to try to track the kid down.

After several stops and missions utilizing pre-existing assets, you get a clue about where the kid may be and after interviewing local NPCs, ya learn the kid was transported over to XYZ, where the kid is being sold into slavery.

You and your crew member then fight off a large wing as ya fire hatchbreakers to try to rescue the kid, ultimately saving the kid and reuniting parent and child, and fully gaining your NPC's loyalty (thus, they don't die upon ship blowing up-- might be asking too much but I likes it).

There could also be peaceful Life Quest missions such as your crew member always wanted to visit the center of the galaxy along with other sites, trader/mining based versions, criminal based ones, the classic "wants revenge on a corrupt system security team who killed their brother", etc etc. Too many possibilities that any of us could think of.

(I think it'd be fun if we had to look for a crew member that fit our playstyle, and some may be cool with smuggling/piracy and some ain't, some may hate that you always run away and they lose respect, etc, and their attitude towards you impacts their performance... no more just being the same NPC but with a different face)

Along the way there are organic twists and turns as ya engage with NPCs via dialogue trees (to bring it back to the original idea), not only giving one the fun of the Life Quest itself but also unpredictable elements from the NPCs ya gotta encounter along the way.

Game mechanics that blend together to create endless unique experiences dangit!
 
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I've seen plenty of good ideas relating to missions, yours included, but I recall a post from the missions dev pretty much saying that the system is too tied into the BGS for any radical changes to happen - I had great hopes for chained missions but they just (to my eyes) turned out to be a few random existing missions without a logical story progression.

A game that I think does this sort of thing well is Mount & Blade Warband, you recruit various character NPCs as well as your normal rank-and-file troops - some have back stories you can get involved in, some take exception to other characters or your actions, etc. and all with dialogue options for the player.

When I see the sort of procedural story generation that's possible in games like Dwarf Fortress or Rimworld... I'm not asking for The Sims in space, but if ED could at least give the illusion of personality for NPCs, I'd be well pleased. Actually, just bringing back the system from FE2 would be enough for me!

There are new mission types inbound this year, but I've only got my breath held a tiny bit :D
 
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but I recall a post from the missions dev pretty much saying that the system is too tied into the BGS for any radical changes to happen -

Ah, that's so disappointing... I ain't a BGS expert, but I'd happily shoot the BGS into the sun for a chance at better mission/NPC mechanics!

I genuinely love the cold, dreary, isolated nature of the game, but the day to day gameplay mechanics themselves just need more oomph. More interaction, more engaging missions, etc etc, I'm sure most agree with that. I do my best to understand that this stuff is complicated and Elite has many layers under the hood to consider, but yeah... chained missions just seem like regular ol' missions and I don't get any sense of story or narrative progression from them. I only do them when the mission offered fits my mood, and if I never did them nothing would change.

Like ya say, even the system from FE2 would excite me! A simple way to interact and give variation... ah well. It felt like such a missed opportunity when I started playing in 2015, and as the game continues to grow I can't help but wonder why some elements in the game are the way they are for this long. If only I knew more about programming and the engine and what is actually possible, I could whine about things with a more educated approach! :)

Elite is so great in so many ways, and the longterm goals have always sounded cool, but I usually find my dreams for the game always revolve around "basics" I've experienced in games since the 80s and whatnot. If only the basics could be deepened and fleshed out dangit...!
 
I've seen plenty of good ideas relating to missions, yours included, but I recall a post from the missions dev pretty much saying that the system is too tied into the BGS for any radical changes to happen - I had great hopes for chained missions but they just (to my eyes) turned out to be a few random existing missions without a logical story progression.

A game that I think does this sort of thing well is Mount & Blade Warband, you recruit various character NPCs as well as your normal rank-and-file troops - some have back stories you can get involved in, some take exception to other characters or your actions, etc. and all with dialogue options for the player.

When I see the sort of procedural story generation that's possible in games like Dwarf Fortress or Rimworld... I'm not asking for The Sims in space, but if ED could at least give the illusion of personality for NPCs, I'd be well pleased. Actually, just bringing back the system from FE2 would be enough for me!

There are new mission types inbound this year, but I've only got my breath held a tiny bit :D

To be fair, the BGS itself needs a massive overhaul as far as I can see. At the moment it is far too minimalist, it can barely even provide a basic set of "what" is going on, let alone the many layers of "why" that's necessary to produce any kind of plot. There's no character nor personality in any of the factions/powers/superpowers, and even the "notable" people involved are just a name and a face that simply exist to give us missions. If every faction had a dozen or so influential NPCs that we could interact with, each with their own personalities, goals and motivations (which may be at odds with their parent faction), then it would provide a much better framework for missions to mean something rather than just being "do X, but earn 10x the money for it compared to doing it normally". Currently the BGS is certainly in the background, but whether it simulates anything is debatable.
 
To be fair, the BGS itself needs a massive overhaul as far as I can see. At the moment it is far too minimalist, it can barely even provide a basic set of "what" is going on, let alone the many layers of "why" that's necessary to produce any kind of plot. There's no character nor personality in any of the factions/powers/superpowers, and even the "notable" people involved are just a name and a face that simply exist to give us missions. If every faction had a dozen or so influential NPCs that we could interact with, each with their own personalities, goals and motivations (which may be at odds with their parent faction), then it would provide a much better framework for missions to mean something rather than just being "do X, but earn 10x the money for it compared to doing it normally". Currently the BGS is certainly in the background, but whether it simulates anything is debatable.
Totally agree, I'd love to get involved in faction shenanigans (akin to what Tie Fighter had).

I read some great ideas on the forums relating to missions and NPCs, but most of them have been had before, notably by FDev themselves :D
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...rful-friends-quot-Contacts-in-Elite-Dangerous
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/7494-Elite-Dangerous-Persistent-NPC-s
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...n-IS-the-man-quot-Missions-in-Elite-Dangerous
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...uot-Roger-Roger-quot-Comms-in-Elite-Dangerous
From this last link, Player to NPC comms:
Talking to NPC would be handled entirely by the preset messages system.
Conversations happen either when the player hails an NPC and they respond and vice versa
Players will choose from a number of options and the NPC will automatically respond, they will take reputation into account when deciding their response.

  • Reputations can also affect the general tone of interaction with a particular type of NPC, a trader being hostile to a pirate for example.
  • New conversation options can become open to the player as their reputation values change, this could include options to bluff, bribe and haggle.

Choices made in these interactions will have real consequences for gameplay, each choice could have a different outcome in terms of gameplay.

etc. etc.
 
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Totally agree, I'd love to get involved in faction shenanigans (akin to what Tie Fighter had).

I read some great ideas on the forums relating to missions and NPCs, but most of them have been had before, notably by FDev themselves :D

A lot of these sound like what I'm hoping for, or at least a version of it that I'd be more than happy with, so I'm glad it's meant to be a part of the plans in general. Has there been any word since the early days that they were working on this stuff still? I definitely didn't think my suggestion was breaking new ground, since being able to use comms to talk to NPCs with preset messages seems pretty obvious, but I wonder why it hasn't been a thing yet.

And persistent NPCs, that'd be fantastic, and good to know it also was in the plans. I was wondering if it was even possible with how the game is made (as in, I have no clue, not that I don't think they could).

Since these seem to be from 5 years ago, have they discussed anything about them in recent history at live events or streams or anything?
 
A lot of these sound like what I'm hoping for, or at least a version of it that I'd be more than happy with, so I'm glad it's meant to be a part of the plans in general. Has there been any word since the early days that they were working on this stuff still? I definitely didn't think my suggestion was breaking new ground, since being able to use comms to talk to NPCs with preset messages seems pretty obvious, but I wonder why it hasn't been a thing yet.

And persistent NPCs, that'd be fantastic, and good to know it also was in the plans. I was wondering if it was even possible with how the game is made (as in, I have no clue, not that I don't think they could).

Since these seem to be from 5 years ago, have they discussed anything about them in recent history at live events or streams or anything?
Whenever a dev has (rarely) talked about features from the DDF over the past couple of years it's usually along the lines of, "it's on the list, we'd like to do it" but never a timeline. I've watched pretty much all the vids since Kickstarter and all I can offer is a shrug and a hopeful half-smile :)

I think this year's rejigging of existing features might give us a clue as to how likely we are to get some of the things from the DDF.
 
Whenever a dev has (rarely) talked about features from the DDF over the past couple of years it's usually along the lines of, "it's on the list, we'd like to do it" but never a timeline. I've watched pretty much all the vids since Kickstarter and all I can offer is a shrug and a hopeful half-smile :)

I think this year's rejigging of existing features might give us a clue as to how likely we are to get some of the things from the DDF.

Drats that's what i was afraid of! Thank you for all the info though, I appreciate it. I'll be crossing all my fingers and my toes that something develops in the near future!
 
One major thing that the game has always felt like it was missing was a way to communicate with NPCs. It's an obvious thought that has likely been mentioned many times, but I feel it's an important one to bring life and variety and more immersion to the game.
Agree. This has been brought up before, by the way, but no harm bringing it to light again. I believe having more of dialogues for missions, encounters, etc, would actually create a sense of depth to the game. Many complains that the game is really wide, but has no depth, but dialogues and perhaps a bit of if-then-else scenarios with choices and options would create more puzzles and mysteries of things instead of just straight go-do-this-and-that process.
 
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