Proposal: Remove the STOLEN flag
- Thread starter Phier
- Start date
Arguing the real life "logic" of the situation doesn't help. This is a game. It's supposed to be fun. Part of that fun is progression. Progression requires money, vast amounts of money. I've been playing this game a lot since the last reset, my assets total about 12 million. I've not done much trading, mostly bounty hunting and piracy. The people who do nothing but trade are sitting on hundreds of millions, some of them are now into billions. If I had spent the same amount of time trading as I have doing the things that I find more fun I would be sat on a colossal fortune like the dedicated traders are. That's an imbalance in the mechanics. FD want bounty hunters, smugglers and pirates in the game, they need them in the game. If they want to keep us in the game then they're going to have to up the ante a bit and give us some progression opportunities instead of throwing us the scraps from the traders tables.
To open up the pirate profession, pirates should be able to capture ships and sell them on the blackmarket or ransom them
You fly your ship upto the target, lock onto it like a limpet and you send your crew aboard
then you fly the conjoined ships back to your station
You fly your ship upto the target, lock onto it like a limpet and you send your crew aboard
then you fly the conjoined ships back to your station
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Well... there's one case where I think the stolen flag is warranted...
For Pete's sake folks.. Get it right.
You were paid to blow up a ship. In the process you stole some of his cargo, which was not part of your mission.
If you don't get caught with it before you sell it to the shady warehouse owner, you're ok. If you DO get caught you're fined for illegal cargo. YOU ARE NOT WANTED YET.
Only if you ignore the fine and don't pay it within 24h will the authorities get sufficiently miffed to convert the fine into a bounty. THEN you're wanted.
You get instant bounties for firing on a clean ship or a bigger one for blowing them up.
Pretty much everything else starts as a fine which DOESNT start the cops and stations shooting at you unless you leave it unpaid long enough to become a bounty.
This is also how you pay off fines from a system you can't reach by the way, let it become a bounty and then wipe it via the pilots federation.
I appreciate that you've called out the distinction between a fine and a bounty. Point taken.
However, I think we will have to agree to disagree on the rest of the post. No problem. People disagree.
It's odd though how polarizing this particular mechanic is, isn't it?
As was stated earlier, there are really no other games I can think of where looting an NPC corpse you were tasked to kill constitutes a crime. A fine most likely to be levied to bounty hunters... one of the least paying law abiding professions (who am I kidding, other than trading, all professions fall into this category). Hit a man when he's down why don't you.
Ok. sorry sorry. I'm being polarizing again. We agree to disagree.
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I'm pretty sure it's the simplistic nature of parts of the game that cause most of the polarity. Easy to go one/other when that's a lot of the choice available in the first place. Then we could have less-heated but longer squabbles about more minute angles of the game instead, with a deeper game.
My current trade with with my clipper is 1250 cr/t both ways. So I make that 1250*232*2 every 12 minutes.
TIME IS MONEY. It doesn't matter if its "pure profit" on a stolen item, its a complete waste of time money wise and a potential waste of rep depending on circumstances.
Good point. Rep'ed.
I would much rather debate the legality of salvaging a derelict ship, or collecting abandoned canisters wrt. a faction's salvage laws, in a world where robbery yields stolen cargo, and bounty hunting yields a well-earned bonus. The present legal system is perhaps too simple. And why is it consistent across systems and factions? I bet UK's salvage laws differ from the US's.
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Easier said than done, though. I've had several say they'll abandon only to find out it wasn't and instead jettisoned. It's a crap shoot, really, when dealing with humans. Regardless, your first post is spot on.
logically, it does make sense that when you are loading in cargo, you want your name to be printed on it, so that it's not as easy for people to make a profit out of you
however not in an anarchic system, there even shouldn't be system authority at all in anarchic system because guess what... anarchic means "without government", people claiming to be "police" would have no right to put bounty on you or give you fines for cargo, in that aspect i am with you
also, anarchic stations would not exactly have to buy your stuff for full price if it's stolen, they can still see that there is another name tag on the cargo,
and paying full price for what is worth only the black market amount would be silly from the station owner
maybe black markets in anarchic stations could pay you a bit more, since the black market should be okay with the station government (which there isn't any) knowing of it,
since it's only more profit brought into the station
I think we can easily agree to disagree. Your opinion is as valid as mine even if we do hold different ones.
I think we can also agree that if there was more depth around "illegal cargo" the stolen flag would be less onerous and the risk/reward around smuggling would be more dynamic.
Yup. If I had hidden cargo compartments, or an ability to hack the cargo ID, I might be on board with the laws as they are implemented. Hell, raise the fines or give instant bounty for people caught actively taking measures to hide illegal cargo. Intention is nine tenths of the law after all.
Of course, this would require a two-tiered inspection method other than the simple cargo scans we have now.
Or maybe just a random die roll based on the quality of my hacking/smuggling equipment, and my previous in-system criminal record.
-- Edit --
Actually it's usually "possession is nine tenths of the law"... which would appear to argue against some of my previous posts
, but I do long for smuggling equipment. From Firefly:
HARKEN
I know how these older model Fireflys tend to have those troublesome little nooks.
MAL
Do they?
HARKEN
Smugglers and the like tend to prefer them just for that reason.
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I REALLY like this idea.. "shielded cargo racks" They cost more, are only available at anarchies, hold half as much with the extra weight taken by the shielding. A regular cargo scan will show X tons "unknown" and if you're scanned with unknown cargo by the fuzz while docking you've a chance of being inspected as soon as you open up the station services (higher if you're hostile or unfriendly to the station, lower if you're friendly or allied but NEVER a completely sure thing either way) - illegal cargo caught on an inspection carries a MUCH higher fine and gets your shielded racks confiscated and replaced by regular ones if there's anything dodgy in them. It would be your choice whether to take the risk of your number coming up for an inspection or simply to leave without accessing the station services, SC away then try again to sneak in unscanned.
I get you but trading (read using the internet to find routes, doing rares. And using the luxuries needed) is broken to the point i wont do it.
You cant balance everything to that. Infact how it got through beta... well people wanted to get credits so prolly didnt report it.
You cant make the other mode 2 million an hour. I LOVE the struggle of my role (smuggling) and i dont want to take 4 hoirs to get an super ship. I want to struggle.
Trading using internet routes is there to mke space bucks for the cred per hour guys. Then let them whine over content lacking when they raced to the last ship in 2 months.
Add more depth please do. But not easy mode with 2million per hour.
More danger for more reward yes.
more depth to smuggling yes.
police beijg a bit tougher (i get pulled out of cruise i can boost before they even scan me even though they say dont make ny moves) fine me for running or pursue me again.
Depth not easyness and creds n ill back your crusade.
But stolen goods at 100% why do the guys in base not just buy normal goods? Without the hassle. .. sme cost? Its nonsense gameplay and real life.
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Not going to happen. Seriously, it just isn't. They can easily drop the 'stolen' goods and begin their boost/4-pip mad dash into supercruise while you're flipping over to see if the cargo's abandoned or not. They have absolutely no reason to comply with your demand for abandoned goods, other than repeated insistence that you will blow them up - during which time they have ample ability to escape even through normal means (doubly so if you're attempting to communicate these repeated threats through text chat, in which case, you might as well just alt-f4 from your own client, as it's just as effective in accomplishing the task at hand), let alone more exploitative measures.
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They do have a reason. If you see them again, tell ur friends.
Also they shouldnt really be dropping it unmarked. Thats just them being nice. I wouldnt do it and i woukdnt expect it.