PVP/Crime Consequences required levels (Answers from PVE players please.)

[Majinvash]

Now hopefully this will not get merged back into another thread.
I am not interested in your feelings or hurt pride, whether it’s right, wrong or working as intended.

What I am interested in is the **level** of consequences that would need to be seen to get players out of the safer private/solo modes and into what will be inherently the more dangerous Open.

The reason this is interesting to me, is that being a Pirate, we need victims. Sorry but this cannot phrased any other way.
Also shocking to many, we do not shy away from challenge.

Consider this before you reply.

· Whatever FD implement will still allow you to get destroyed by another player. (Bar a PVE mode which is unlikely, this is always going to happen)

· Saying that any PVP player who kills another player should be pushed back into a sidewinder is just unrealistic.

· Credits flow like water in this game if you know what you are doing and any changes to this will effect ALL players.

· Having instant endless spawning wings of Defence Cutters, Corvettes and FDL, is just immersion breaking.
( It would also remove Piracy as a career option and would stop bounty hunters attacking a criminal ship, in a clean system. Even if they K-Scanned )

· Currently there is no real reason to go into Anarchy Space, so saying that is only where PVP should happen just won’t.

**Please allow time for any reply from me, while the mods check my words aren't hurtful.**

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Robert Maynard]

A few to kick off:

1) Several wanted levels increasing in severity, linked to consequences;
2) Increased rebuy costs with wanted level;
3) Possibility of replacement ships not being fitted with weapons / FSD-Interdictors - the Pilots' Federation may not allow wanted pilots to receive such replacement equipment fitted to their replacement ship.
4) Increasing police response with wanted level;
5) Removal of docking privileges in Minor Faction / Power / Major Faction stations and bases (escalating depending on wanted level);

 

[sewerratuk]

Sorry Majinvash 'The Voice Of Open' I cannot take you seriously after reading your post in the PvP League thread where you are complaining about players having an unfair advantage with the loadout they use on their ships

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Police response should be appropriate, but harsh.
Pirating in high security areas should be incredibly risky, but then, trading in high security areas should be low profit.
High profit trading should be between low/no security areas, where pirating is much easier. (Risk vs reward)
A few select systems (LHS 3447, Everate etc) should have disproportionate sized response for murder. Even if it's immersion breaking, it's far worse for a newbies first experience of ED to be repeated death by ganking, as this harms the player base, and FD directly. (Less players = less players buying expansions).
Removing your own bounty via suicidewinder, or something needs to be looked at.
Someone suggested that your bounty should only drop by the cost of your rebuy of the current ship.
Good idea in thoery, but open to exploits, like switching to your suicidewinder before your bounty becomes too high.
But then this also effects payouts for bounty hunters.

 

[Deadspin]

Sorry Majinvash 'The Voice Of Open' I cannot take you seriously after reading your post in the PvP League thread where you are complaining about players having an unfair advantage with the loadout they use on their ships

Now let's try again with something actually constructive.

A few to kick off:

1) Several wanted levels increasing in severity, linked to consequences;
2) Increased rebuy costs with wanted level;
3) Possibility of replacement ships not being fitted with weapons / FSD-Interdictors - the Pilots' Federation may not allow wanted pilots to receive such replacement equipment fitted to their replacement ship.
4) Increasing police response with wanted level;
5) Removal of docking privileges in Minor Faction / Power / Major Faction stations and bases (escalating depending on wanted level);

I wonder if it would be better, in regards to docking perms, to limit the lockout of players strictly to minor faction controlled stations. IE: If I      off the Diamond Frogs they can bar me from docking at any station they own, but if a station in the same system is owned by another faction, I'm still golden until I've passed their threshold as well.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I wonder if it would be better, in regards to docking perms, to limit the lockout of players strictly to minor faction controlled stations. IE: If I      off the Diamond Frogs they can bar me from docking at any station they own, but if a station in the same system is owned by another faction, I'm still golden until I've passed their threshold as well.

That's what I was getting at with "Removal of docking privileges in Minor Faction / Power / Major Faction stations and bases (escalating depending on wanted level);" - Low wanted level = minor faction denial; Medium wanted level = Power denial; High wanted level = Major Faction; probably supplemented by Highest wanted level = docking ban in civilised space (but not particular systems with a soft spot for offenders, of course).

 

[Philip Coutts]

There is also a distinct difference between piracy and simply blowing someone up. Murder should carry a hefty penalty much more than the current 6000 credits. Maybe in the Anarchy systems it should be more of a free for all but in the safer areas murderer should be dealt with quickly by the security forces.

 

[PeachingTony]

1) One of the issues is the localised nature of wanted status - originally you'd have a wanted status against major factions, that was a real deterrent against it. Combined with Robert's excellent suggestions above, perhaps at a certain wanted level other factions would treat you as wanted as well, until at the extreme you'd be wanted by a major faction - a bit like being on the interpol list

2) Don't remove wanted status when you die. This gets rid of the 'sidewinder suicide' method. Wanted status times out so it's not a permanent death sentence no matter what the charge.

3) Stronger link between minor faction, powerplay and wanted status. For example if I am wanted by a minor faction how can I simultaneously be 'friendly' (especially if it's not for a minor offence).

4) At the same time as strengthening the deterrent, improve the logic - if I am attacked by a ship that I have not yet scanned and retaliate without the scan having completed, I shouldn't get a wanted status. The only exception to that should be if I shoot the police.

5) Make the time-out of the wanted status depend on game playing time not real time


I just did the LHS 3447 community goals whilst being wanted the entire time - it made farming pirates a little harder but not by a great deal. The biggest inconvenience was trying to dock my Anaconda to cash in the credits without first being scanned by police. Typically that would take 5 or 6 attempts.

I became wanted by accident (case 4 above) but once I was wanted, there was little incentive not to just destroy any police ships that fired on me or interdicted me - I knew I'd be leaving the system once the CG was over.

 

[Deadspin]

That's what I was getting at with "Removal of docking privileges in Minor Faction / Power / Major Faction stations and bases (escalating depending on wanted level);" - Low wanted level = minor faction denial; Medium wanted level = Power denial; High wanted level = Major Faction; probably supplemented by Highest wanted level = docking ban in civilised space (but not particular systems with a soft spot for offenders, of course).

I don't believe the major factions (Fed/Imp/Alliance) should even get involved in that decision. I would imagine, for balance purposes, it should entirely be limited to the factions within a system and the stations said factions control (the minor factions), with no play at all on who they are aligned to beyond that. Maybe you could get the major factions involved if you're doing something stupid in their home system, to their home faction, etc. Even that might be a bit too far though.

We could even bring power play more into the fold here by imposing power play faction limitations on the offending players if they are harassing player PP ships. So you blow up a few Hudson supporters and now you see yourself identified as wanted/criminal throughout Hudson space but not the entire Federation

 

[Mack]

IMO :-
Most of my feelings are against those that attack innocent victims as follows :
There should be no rebuy costs for the victim in a PVP death, unless they had a criminal status at the time they were attacked, then it would be the same as a NPC death.

There should then be an option to respawn at same location (in normal space) or at closest/ last station. (this is for hostile attacks out in the void that are unwarranted)

PVP attackers against non criminals should have all docking privileges removed within say a 100lyr range of their criminal act and thus have all system forces hostile to them at any sighting within this zone, this to remain through logout for say 14 days.

Wanted status for attacker should not clear in any way or form unless they are destroyed by another player, and of course it should ramp up accordingly.

 

[sewerratuk]

Now let's try again with something actually constructive.

Nah, I'm not in the mood nor see any point, but I won't say anything again on this thread

There is nothing more constructive to say about the situation, its the same idea's going round and round. The hardcore PvPer will never be happy with the hardcore PvEer and vice versa. But hell, why not start a new thread about it.

Sorry, that was the last thing I will say on this thread

Have a good day

Sorry, that was the last thing I will say...

 

[Forlorn]

I'd like to see more tools made available for bounty hunting - say, a Pilot's Federation mission on the Bulletin Board that is assigned to "random" players (i.e., more than one, but most likely not given to the target's friends). When accepted, any spotting of the target by CMDRs or NPCs result in the target's location being updated on the Galaxy Map for those who accepted the mission. Their location in any mode needs to keep this marker (location, time last seen, current mode) up to date.

No duration limit, either - but if the bounty hunter dies, they lose the mission and it's given to someone else. if the target wants to hide in a different mode, let them. When (if) they come back to Open, they'll find people waiting for them.

 

[TheDayman]

Where's a "Michael Jackson eating popcorn meme" when you need it?

 

[Robert Maynard]

I don't believe the major factions (Fed/Imp/Alliance) should even get involved in that decision. I would imagine, for balance purposes, it should entirely be limited to the factions within a system and the stations said factions control (the minor factions), with no play at all on who they are aligned to beyond that. Maybe you could get the major factions involved if you're doing something stupid in their home system, to their home faction, etc. Even that might be a bit too far though.

I'll happily agree to disagree - Minor Factions are often affiliated to Major Factions - wanted status spreading across a whole Major Faction would be akin to an international arrest warrant, not just a single state arrest warrant.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'd like to see more tools made available for bounty hunting - say, a Pilot's Federation mission on the Bulletin Board that is assigned to "random" players (i.e., more than one, but most likely not given to the target's friends). When accepted, any spotting of the target by CMDRs or NPCs result in the target's location being updated on the Galaxy Map for those who accepted the mission. Their location in any mode needs to keep this marker (location, time last seen, current mode) up to date.

No duration limit, either - but if the bounty hunter dies, they lose the mission and it's given to someone else. if the target wants to hide in a different mode, let them. When (if) they come back to Open, they'll find people waiting for them.

Why limit the mission to a single bounty hunter in the first place? More bounty hunters chasing a target, more chance of the target being "apprehended"....

 

[goemon]

It's a complicated question. from my perspective:

- security response scaling is okay - i can tell that from a strict pve perspective, sometimes racking up bounties for influencing the BGS. after approx. 15-20 ships kills, you can't go on attacking system security wings in a cobra or courier, you'll need a vulture or FDL, or you will be running most of the times. scaling security response with type of ship you fly might be a solution.

- security response time need to be much faster.

but most important to me (which is a reason, that, while i always enjoyed the challenge of rare trading around lave, or blockade running community goals, but very often switch to group or solo these days around CG's, if things start to get silly...):

- getting rid of bounties in such an easy way (sidey suicide) needs to go. this is basic. you should be wanted for a week for a murder (no matter pvp or pve), and you shouldn't be able to get rid of it. might make it hard for newer players, but also might teach them to travel.

- what i really think is silly is something you can see around a CG - "pirates" or "killers" docking in peace next to their targets. scaling security response around there by a spawn related to the ship you fly, so it will be very risky to dock a ship with a big active bountie.

 

[Mephane]

Now hopefully this will not get merged back into another thread.
I am not interested in your feelings or hurt pride, whether it’s right, wrong or working as intended.

What I am interested in is the **level** of consequences that would need to be seen to get players out of the safer private/solo modes and into what will be inherently the more dangerous Open.

The reason this is interesting to me, is that being a Pirate, we need victims. Sorry but this cannot phrased any other way.
Also shocking to many, we do not shy away from challenge.

Consider this before you reply.

· Whatever FD implement will still allow you to get destroyed by another player. (Bar a PVE mode which is unlikely, this is always going to happen)

· Saying that any PVP player who kills another player should be pushed back into a sidewinder is just unrealistic.

· Credits flow like water in this game if you know what you are doing and any changes to this will effect ALL players.

· Having instant endless spawning wings of Defence Cutters, Corvettes and FDL, is just immersion breaking.
( It would also remove Piracy as a career option and would stop bounty hunters attacking a criminal ship, in a clean system. Even if they K-Scanned )

· Currently there is no real reason to go into Anarchy Space, so saying that is only where PVP should happen just won’t.

**Please allow time for any reply from me, while the mods check my words aren't hurtful.**

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

I can only speak for myself - I find the actual severity of punishment for crime secondary as long as it feels reasonable within the game world. 6000cr murder bounty while one can make millions in an hours, obviously, is obviously ludicrous, but so is being automatically set back to a stock Sidewinder.

But personally, I care more about mitigating my losses than punishing an attacker. I have been advocating that the game should waive rebuy and repair at all when a player damages or kills another one. Killed in PvP, rebuy is free. Damaged in PvP, repair is free. Regardless of criminal status, who attacked or where it took place. I don't mind PvP, I don't mind getting blown up, but I do mind losing an hour or more worth of trading, NPC bounty hunting etc.

Lots of MMOs do exactly this, it mitigates a lot of problems with PvP, PKing, griefing etc., when you simply respawn and continue almost as if nothing happened. I know it is gamey and can't properly be explained from within the lore, but in this case I honestly don't care about the lore, I care about my time, and spending an evening earning credits only for those to be wiped out in a 5 minute random encounter with another player is annoying. A 5 minute random PvP encounter with no consequences beyond maybe hurt pride is a fun thrill for me.

 

[xaisis]

I like the thought of pirecy. But as it is now, no go.

in simple form, if a player is deemed a murdere then:
the services in that factions space (fed, empire or alliance) should be revoked. And the faction should put out missions on the player with live opdates on location.

faction services: lvls of insurance landing permits etc

npc squads should be sent if he goes solo to hide.

 

[Ddraig]

Any consequences that make the life of the pirate a living hell and needs to be out of the place where he is pirating to prevent destruction once found. Specially in high security systems, in those systems the pirate should know that he cant set foot there. And the level of response to decrease proportionally depending if medium, low security levels to anarchy where there is none. Wanna be a pirate, fine, but you become a criminal and criminals aren´t allowed anywhere but in lawless space. Same for the trader, if he goes to a place with low or no security he is marking himself as target and needs to go ready to be plundered, thus making it necessary for them go there armed and armored. Pirates should become wanted, and when a certain level is reach, their wanted status should not go away, not even when your ship is destroyed because you don´t die, you earn a bounty and a wanted poster in all controlled space, Federal, Empire or Alliance depending where are you plundering.

However for any of this to work, the whole system needs to be changed, the pirate needs to have benefits in the systems where being a pirate is cool and dandy, and the trader should have benefits for pursuing that career, that means hiring security forces, being NPC or not, cargo insurance, a trader guilds, not dependent on players, but a in game trader guild of some sort. Same for the pirate, there should be places where you can effectively hide, repair, get things for your ship you cant get in a high tech securuty system because you cant go there and sort of pirate guild to take missions or something. Same goes for the bounty hunter, same goes for the ones that wish to become military, mercenary or explorer, same for those wishing to rank in the federation or alliance.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the game as it is, I do like it, as it is it works for me; however as it is I have no interest, none what so ever to interact with anyone because there is no point. And none of the so far proposed changes, in this thread or others, has any pull on me, at any level, to make me feel like being in open at any time. I understand the idea that some people want to pursue certain activities or careers, however the game does not support any of those careers in any way. The new patch seems to be heading somewhere, but not there. As long as that is the way the game is, which is fine by me, I will remain in solo. I got what I wanted from the game already, piloting a ship and a galaxy to go, I already have more than 1500 hours which is crazy, I will get planets, I will get walking on ships and more and more stuff, all cool.

Those are my two cents.

 

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

Elite does not have a Pirate Problem. Elite has a D-bag Problem.

I dont mind to get pirated for my Wares but killing me, for no reason than just the kill is idiotic.
Also, every system, populated or not, feels just like anarchy. There is literally no protection from any authority.
As long as FD doesnt adjust the game in a way, that gives griefers a HUGE drawbag for being D-bags, I will play in Solo or PVE-Group.