PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.

Groups like Mobius are awesome, and well done to players organising it. Any kind of collaborative community effort in Elite is always heartwarming to see and I genuinely wish everyone the best out of their playtime. They should exist outside of open because of all the things I said above, in my (and many others') opinion. Mainly just so I don't have the unimmersive intrusion of lore-breaking invulnerable players riding balls-out unimpeded over systems I am (for better or worse) invested in.

You don't seem particularly open to the possibility that what's best for you might not be best for others. Extrapolating based on your opinion, and that of a few forum posts is biased. Generally only people with strong feelings one way or another are even going to bother making an account. It's worth remembering that sometimes - most people, one can assume, truck on just fine most of the time.



I personally would have no major issues with Mobius being made an official mode in principle, although implementing this would be pretty complicated or unattractive from a dev point of view. Some issues I can think of off the top of my head:

- Mobius only works on a trust basis, you can still hurt people in it, you're just told not to and risk being expelled if you do. I believe there are some rules like if you meet someone on the opposite side of a CZ you're free to engage? Even Mobius seems to acknowledge certain reasons for conflict, and works around it based on the goodwill and understanding of its playerbase. Hard-coding this into a gamemode would probably be pretty laborious, and arguably not super necessary given Mobius exists already.

- Frontier presumably present Elite as they intend it to be engaged with. Putting a lot of time and effort into programming a 'sanctioned' Mobius mode might not reflect what they want the game to be. That's their prerogative, frankly. For my part I disagree with significant other portions of their design, so I get that it can be frustrating, but it is what it is.

- I would also like to reiterate that I think, to a large extent, this kind of solution is an inelegant patch for a perceived problem that would be better solved through other, preferably diegetic means, and I really do think better for everyone. Tangible differences in system security level, more workable and fair HP balancing, more clearly signposted outlets to channel conflict, more stakes for crimes / better responses from NPC security etc. There's a lot of room for things to be improved in more subtle, interesting ways than slapping godmode on.

Player organization IS awesome. But I think you're burying the lead here. Mobius isn't saying "Hey lets organize and do X activities". They could do that easily enough in Open. What Mobius IS saying is "Let's organize specifically to AVOID PVP". So that's what is telling here in my opinion.

When 40k+ players or whatever it is have to band together and essentially create their own private server to get what they want out of the game? That's a sure sign that you've failed as an MMO. I mean flat out, that's a failure for Elite Dangerous. Your customers have a huge gigantic need you aren't adequately fulfilling . Fail.

As far as your closing argument, I might agree with the better solved other solutions if you want to discuss those. Apologies if I missed them already. I, however, obviously disagree that what we're talking about here is any kind of "godmode".
 
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That's very interesting. By that logic, the fact that Open Only Powerplay and Open-weighted BGS threads keep getting made, surely you must conclude that the majority of players support these suggestions. I look forward to reading your next post in the currently ongoing thread about Open-Only/weighted Powerplay - I do hope you will gracefully concede that the majority of players are in favour, and it therefore must be followed through.

Why should these be mutually exclusive? The Power Play/Open only threads seem to be borne out of frustration that those who play with less "risk" than them, reap the same rewards.

So let's throw everyone in Open. And those who want more risk, can set their PVP flags to on. Deal??
 
Player organization IS awesome. But I think you're burying the lead here. Mobius isn't saying "Hey lets organize and do X activities". They could do that easily enough in Open. What Mobius IS saying is "Let's organize specifically to AVOID PVP". So that's what is telling here in my opinion.

When 40k+ players or whatever it is have to band together and essentially create their own private server to get what they want out of the game? That's a sure sign that you've failed as an MMO. I mean flat out, that's a failure for Elite Dangerous. Your customers have a huge gigantic need you aren't adequately fulfilling . Fail.

As far as your closing argument, I might agree with the better solved other solutions if you want to discuss those. Apologies if I missed them already. I, however, obviously disagree that what we're talking about here is any kind of "godmode".
It's godmode because the OP suggested PvP flags rendering them invulnerable to other players while still being visible.

I don't see why a game having the capacity to cater for 40k Mobius players as well as a populous open play space is evidence that it has 'failed'. What exactly is the problem here? This sounds like two diametrically opposed groups of people getting nominally what they want from the same game.
 
It's godmode because the OP suggested PvP flags rendering them invulnerable to other players while still being visible.

I don't see why a game having the capacity to cater for 40k Mobius players as well as a populous open play space is evidence that it has 'failed'. What exactly is the problem here? This sounds like two diametrically opposed groups of people getting nominally what they want from the same game.

LOL oh man I just love you. Really, you're the best.

You should consider other people's point of view

two seconds later

I refuse to see your point of view.

siiiigh okay then. Thanks for wanting "discussion" while leaving me exactly nowhere to go.
 
Nope, that is not what those suggestions are, they are specifically about keeping the current server & mode system, but making Powerplay OpenOnly/Weighted, ann they come up all the time, so that perspective must representative of the majority of the player base. Introducing a PvP flag would be no different to doing Powerplay in PG/Solo, so you need to accept the obvious majority opinion.
Why should these be mutually exclusive? The Power Play/Open only threads seem to be borne out of frustration that those who play with less "risk" than them, reap the same rewards.

So let's throw everyone in Open. And those who want more risk, can set their PVP flags to on. Deal??
 
d-bag CMDR starts trying to gank you.
Here you're really displaying an almost hysterical level of bias and it really makes me sad.

If there is a literal war happening between two opposing sides and two players are pledged to opposite sides in that war and you still consider any potential conflict between them to be necessarily the work of "d-bag gankers" then we're operating with a set of preconceptions and expectations entirely too far removed to have a meaningful discussion.
 
There are a lot of players who will just continue playing in Solo until there is a solution to this issue. Somehow I don’t feel the current options of playing will ever change.
The "cesspit" reputation that Open gets is more driven by players choosing to make their "first" experience (a first that seems to happen quite often) in very well known places where gankers do hang out. I have over 1500 hours in game as a trader and can still count the number of times I've been destroyed by a griefer or ganker on two hands
LOL oh man I just love you. Really, you're the best.

You should consider other people's point of view

two seconds later

I refuse to see your point of view.

siiiigh okay then. Thanks for wanting "discussion" and leaving me exactly nowhere to go.

Reminds me of certain posters on the other side of the fence...
 
The "cesspit" reputation that Open gets is more driven by players choosing to make their "first" experience (a first that seems to happen quite often) in very well known places where gankers do hang out. I have over 1500 hours in game as a trader and can still count the number of times I've been destroyed by a griefer or ganker on two hands


Reminds me of certain posters on the other side of the fence...
There should not be places in the game where you HAVE to go to, like Deciat, where gankers are allowed to "hang out" with impunity. What part of this core concept are you not getting?
 
I did not say I refuse to see your point of view, I asked you to explain your point of view.
It's very simple. I want to play in Open without ever being ganked unless I so wish to be engaged in PVP. Period, I mean I'm not even hiding it. That's literally what we're talking about here. No games, straight up. I want Elite to be a real MMO where we can all coexist.

400 billion star systems and we can't figure out places/ways to satisfy everyone? I mean, come on.
 
It's very simple. I want to play in Open without ever being ganked unless I so wish to be engaged in PVP. Period, I mean I'm not even hiding it. That's literally what we're talking about here. No games, straight up. I want Elite to be a real MMO where we can all coexist.

400 billion star systems and we can't figure out places/ways to satisfy everyone? I mean, come on.
So... you actually didn't read any of the opposing viewpoints? Or you just want to get exactly what you want regardless of the negative repercussions for others? Or am I missing something? I feel like we're back to square one after what felt tantalisingly like progress.
 
Here you're really displaying an almost hysterical level of bias and it really makes me sad.

If there is a literal war happening between two opposing sides and two players are pledged to opposite sides in that war and you still consider any potential conflict between them to be necessarily the work of "d-bag gankers" then we're operating with a set of preconceptions and expectations entirely too far removed to have a meaningful discussion.
But Fake see here we go again.

There's absolutely nothing tying me to those "sides". There's zero mechanisms tying the player commander to the NPC factions. I can fly to any system I want, and join any "side" willy nilly back and forth. There's no storyline. There's no deeper character progression. There's nothing there.

Perhaps if there was something that mattered to CZ's more than credits or PP modules or whatever, I could get more personally invested in what happens in a CZ beyond blowing crap up and getting paid. But as of right now...../shrug
 
What if the ganker is pledged to same side, how otherwise would they be in position to gank?
Let me clear something up, at no point did I intend to mock or diminish Mobius or its decision to remove hostile players from it. I would've always expected someone to be kicked for shooting their own side of a CZ.

I was surprised by this information as I remember from a long time ago that there was a "free to shoot" policy in CZs if the conditions were met and players found themselves in opposition. I wouldn't enjoy fighting in a CZ where I'm not able to shoot the most dangerous of my enemies, but again, that's why I don't play in Mobius.
 
So... you actually didn't read any of the opposing viewpoints? Or you just want to get exactly what you want regardless of the negative repercussions for others? Or am I missing something? I feel like we're back to square one after what felt tantalisingly like progress.
I have offered to compromise on this over and over again.

You will not.

Yet I keep reading from you that I'm the bad-faith party here. Negative repercussions? You mean more than having your ship blown up and seeing the rebuy screen on the whims of the other CMDR? I really don't think so...
 
The "cesspit" reputation that Open gets is more driven by players choosing to make their "first" experience (a first that seems to happen quite often) in very well known places where gankers do hang out. I have over 1500 hours in game as a trader and can still count the number of times I've been destroyed by a griefer or ganker on two hands


Reminds me of certain posters on the other side of the fence...
Well next time I’m flying around the bubble I’ll spend more time looking around for the signs saying ‘gankers operate here’. Don’t forget, not everyone who plays this game reads threads about what areas are seen as unsafe.
 
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