Hmmm... fair point.
Frontier might take all the free Sidewinders back off them. That would be harsh.
PVP is not Griefing
- Thread starter darshu
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Hmmm... fair point.
Frontier might take all the free Sidewinders back off them. That would be harsh.
It was a statement, not an argument. However, if you want some fuel for your fire... those 5% are the hardcore, original backers who have maybe played through all stages of the game. Do you think it's likely that a large sub-set of these people are the "get free ship, crash ship, kill player, rinse repeat" type?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Frontier could load them with debt for the cost price of all of the starter ships that they were spamming....
Is it REALLY a problem?
Killing someone just because you can: That's griefing to me.
You got a bounty on your head? Fair game, don't break the law. You carry cargo? Fair game, it's called "piracy". You're hostile towards my faction? Fair game, it's called "war".
Also I've been playing since Beta 1.0 and I have not once been killed by a player and only once killed a player myself because he had a bounty on him. And I constantly play GalNet featured sectors, as I want to participate in the story. So what is all the fuss about?
I remember being upset about GTA Online, where you can't leave your home in open play without being mowed down by a psychopath in a tank, but Elite? Come on...
Killing someone just because you can: That's griefing to me.
You got a bounty on your head? Fair game, don't break the law. You carry cargo? Fair game, it's called "piracy". You're hostile towards my faction? Fair game, it's called "war".
Also I've been playing since Beta 1.0 and I have not once been killed by a player and only once killed a player myself because he had a bounty on him. And I constantly play GalNet featured sectors, as I want to participate in the story. So what is all the fuss about?
I remember being upset about GTA Online, where you can't leave your home in open play without being mowed down by a psychopath in a tank, but Elite? Come on...
Frontier could load them with debt for the cost price of all of the starter ships that they were spamming....
And how would they differentiate between the hulkageddon mob blockading the system and all the other terrible pilots who continuously flood this forum with "oops, I just crashed my ship again and now I'm broke" threads. I think the pish poor pilots who are always crashing their ships FAR exceeds the number of blockaders.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Now that would be an interesting challenge....
If there were a lot of commander-resets in a particular system where a bit of a fracas is taking place (kill assignments and ship destructions logged in the records), with the resetters featuring in the log as being part of the fracas, then it might be possible to identify intentional abuse rather than repeated resets due to players crashing and going broke. Especially as outfitting transactions for ships are logged too (I strongly suspect).
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I playing EVE-online with various activity since 2005 and i have to say reading trough this topic, EVE players would laugh on the people here complain about griefing or PvP in overall.
If you call anything here griefing then you don't know the correct definition of the word, i mean really there are griefing in EVE, even in the highest security systems, suicide gankers will kill you in a matter of seconds.
Basically you can't even dock out in the trade central hub called "Jita" without proper preparations, most players (including me) using freighter transportation services (players courier companies) like Red Frog, PushX etc to move their assets because regardless of security the gankers and griefers can get you.
Honestly i can't blame the players for this, sure they are short minded and most of them are young bored kids looking for fun between counterstrike matches, but after all its all the developers fault.
If the game mechanics allow to grief, gank, etc in any ways, then players will do it and you can't change this with nice words.
About ED.. PvP is fully optional currently and i really surprised the amount of players don't know how to avoid engagements, even though the trick is so simple, obviously i not going to tell the trick here, but i'm sure that anyone can easily find information about it.
I don't know what developers planning for the future, but PvP can be good for the game, it can make it from dull, boring into amazing and exciting experience, just developers should think it over how to implement and work out its mechanics.
Just to say a few opinions about these mechanics..
- There must be a way longer log off timer, 15 sec is just ridiculous, you can decide if you want to go into a pvp engagement or avoid it, but once you take the risk then you should take the consequences too and not just log off if things turn bad.
- I don't know if this one is a good idea, i trying to stay objective, but pirates would be really happy if FD fix (not sure if its broken) the "avoid engagement" game mechanic and it would make anarchy systems actually dangerous, not like they are currently.
- There must be more difference between high security and anarchy systems, in a high security system the police must act almost instantly for the calls and with much more brutal force, no point of security if they only get there after the fight is already over a long time ago, or even if they get there in time, they barely can kill a 1 day old player in a sidewinder.. There must be brutal police and peacekeeper forces with various group compositions in secure space!
- Anarchy systems need to be more dangerous, that's the place for the real pvp and i think that's the best solution for the whole pvp question, split up pvp and pve space, everyone can find their expectations in the game this way.
If you want to see pvp then go to anarchy or lower security systems in outer space / frontier sectors, if you want to avoid it completely then stay in high security space, basically in the core of the inhabited space.
Of course there must be huge rewards for taking the risk of pvp, FD must find a way to make anarchy systems more interesting and rewarding, the risk vs reward must be balanced!
I know most of these ideas are coming from EVE-online, but trust me even though EVE is fail to protect its players from gankers and griefers even in high sec, they had a very long walk until they polished out all the game mechanics, they have the experience to do it right, they just don't want to.
But ED can be different and taking a ride on EVE as example, FD could design a perfectly polished pvp and risk vs reward system.
If you call anything here griefing then you don't know the correct definition of the word, i mean really there are griefing in EVE, even in the highest security systems, suicide gankers will kill you in a matter of seconds.
Basically you can't even dock out in the trade central hub called "Jita" without proper preparations, most players (including me) using freighter transportation services (players courier companies) like Red Frog, PushX etc to move their assets because regardless of security the gankers and griefers can get you.
Honestly i can't blame the players for this, sure they are short minded and most of them are young bored kids looking for fun between counterstrike matches, but after all its all the developers fault.
If the game mechanics allow to grief, gank, etc in any ways, then players will do it and you can't change this with nice words.
About ED.. PvP is fully optional currently and i really surprised the amount of players don't know how to avoid engagements, even though the trick is so simple, obviously i not going to tell the trick here, but i'm sure that anyone can easily find information about it.
I don't know what developers planning for the future, but PvP can be good for the game, it can make it from dull, boring into amazing and exciting experience, just developers should think it over how to implement and work out its mechanics.
Just to say a few opinions about these mechanics..
- There must be a way longer log off timer, 15 sec is just ridiculous, you can decide if you want to go into a pvp engagement or avoid it, but once you take the risk then you should take the consequences too and not just log off if things turn bad.
- I don't know if this one is a good idea, i trying to stay objective, but pirates would be really happy if FD fix (not sure if its broken) the "avoid engagement" game mechanic and it would make anarchy systems actually dangerous, not like they are currently.
- There must be more difference between high security and anarchy systems, in a high security system the police must act almost instantly for the calls and with much more brutal force, no point of security if they only get there after the fight is already over a long time ago, or even if they get there in time, they barely can kill a 1 day old player in a sidewinder.. There must be brutal police and peacekeeper forces with various group compositions in secure space!
- Anarchy systems need to be more dangerous, that's the place for the real pvp and i think that's the best solution for the whole pvp question, split up pvp and pve space, everyone can find their expectations in the game this way.
If you want to see pvp then go to anarchy or lower security systems in outer space / frontier sectors, if you want to avoid it completely then stay in high security space, basically in the core of the inhabited space.
Of course there must be huge rewards for taking the risk of pvp, FD must find a way to make anarchy systems more interesting and rewarding, the risk vs reward must be balanced!
I know most of these ideas are coming from EVE-online, but trust me even though EVE is fail to protect its players from gankers and griefers even in high sec, they had a very long walk until they polished out all the game mechanics, they have the experience to do it right, they just don't want to.
But ED can be different and taking a ride on EVE as example, FD could design a perfectly polished pvp and risk vs reward system.
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I am genuinely surprised there actually ARE "young bored kids" who decide to play EVE of all things... LoL, WoW perhaps, but EVE? Really?
if you watch from the sideline does it make you a Peeper?
Nope. There are no sidelines. You simply choose to shoot one or the other depending if you like a good fight or a sacrificial lamb.
Elite caters for everyone but Open is way more fun and prone to great PvP combat and PvP non combat.
Snakebite
Banned
I've been offering my services as bounty hunter / armed escort for a while now, no one has yet taken my services
How would they? We can't transfer money. We can transfer goods, but not money.
In any game where PvP is not tightly controlled, it will devolve in to forced PvP quickly. This is happening in Elite and unfortunately there are some "Technical" shortcomings which allow that to happen. The devs have stated that Elite was meant to be more of a Cooperative multi-player experience. However the game does not do enough to encourage this, but we do have private groups for people looking for that style of play. We have solo for people looking for a single player experience. So we have options.
Personally I would like to play in the Open Play mode to be in a world with some risk and I do on occasion, but spend most of my time in Private Group to avoid the over aggressive PvP payers. Elite is intended to include PvP but not be PvP focused. Games which allow PvP but are not balanced around the mechanic all have the same issue, Elite is like EvE in this regard. When you have players with different resources and the capability of those resources have a large scale, then you run in to issues where the individual with the better resources s highly favored. It is less apparent in Elite then in EvE, as Elite is more about player skill like an FPS.
Finding the right balance with take time, it will require asking the right questions and it will require the wisdom to identify the truly helpful feedback, from that focused on benefiting only a subset of players or specific play styles.
Personally I would like to play in the Open Play mode to be in a world with some risk and I do on occasion, but spend most of my time in Private Group to avoid the over aggressive PvP payers. Elite is intended to include PvP but not be PvP focused. Games which allow PvP but are not balanced around the mechanic all have the same issue, Elite is like EvE in this regard. When you have players with different resources and the capability of those resources have a large scale, then you run in to issues where the individual with the better resources s highly favored. It is less apparent in Elite then in EvE, as Elite is more about player skill like an FPS.
Finding the right balance with take time, it will require asking the right questions and it will require the wisdom to identify the truly helpful feedback, from that focused on benefiting only a subset of players or specific play styles.
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We could end all discussion and make this a non issue by removing players ability to do damage each other.
As long as the ships Can fit guns, people Will shoot at each other.
As long as the ships Can fit guns, people Will shoot at each other.
Snakebite
Banned
Quite.... Where is the logic in having a bounty hunter profession in an MMO Game and NOT having the ability to either post bounties or transfer money ?
Hmm.. if we could find some way of then converting those goods into money we would almost be on the brink of a solution.
We need a mechanism to sell trade goods.
Snakebite
Banned
'Forced PvP'.... I almost chocked on my HobNob.
Pirate Player: [Spots a trader, and initiates comms] Hi There I am a pirate and see that you have a hold full of valuable goods, would you like some consensual PvP ?
ROTFLMAO....
I think a lot of this would get better once they actually implement some of these features.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6276
Bounties for the worst crimes are low and local Authority has no teeth.
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