What's up with Lave? It's nowhere near where anyone will start AFAIK (can't remember if I had a "classic" Elite start position there mind you) so at least it's out of the way of most people so unlikely they'll stumble in to it by accident.
PVP is not Griefing
- Thread starter darshu
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For mine, PvP is not griefing IF we're talking 'genuine' PvP here. Griefing, and I'll include ganking here too, is NOT PvP either - but simply an attempt (by a minority) to ruin another's experience under the pretense of PvP when there's actually no intent on the part of the griefer/ganker for anything that even remotely resembles the balanced and competitive combat that imo a true PvP'er seeks. That said, I am yet to encounter another player in open anyway (other than my Dad, by design).
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It's the starting location for one of the Kickstarter (and Backers' App) pledge tier rewards.
I think someone took over this guys keyboard at this point, because he does a full 180 and starts talking about griefing in EVE the same way people are talking about griefing in E
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Than you know nothing John ... uhm ... Halp. Shoot the right squares and don´t let your grief by carebears. Just shoot them anyway, even if they refuse to play with you. Damn carebear griefers trying to ruin my game experience. No more I say, they shall all be purged into Solo and Private Group play where they belong. They may call me griefer for it, because I will cause grief to them, but not less than they cause grief and despair to to me. Join the psychos in Larve to make a point that you will not stop playing the game how it is intended to play in open just because someone might be offended in his religious carebear feelings. And when I join I mean join them in having PVP there, which includes killing them.
Now a total embarrassing question. What is the minimum jump rage to reach larve? Because for all I know my Viper can not reach larve and where do I get a new viper and A grade equipment for it?
It's possible to come up with entirely legitmate in-game reasons for doing that though.
I'm not keen on people out to just shoot others for the hell of it, people who either just want to upset others (don't really want them) or are looking for any fight (understandable, I'd like a bit more of that but I'm not going to shoot random commander just for the sake of it). Just being after a pew-pew arena doesn't really seem to be what the game is about though. More good in-game excuses to shoot each other would be good to be honest.
Even the sort I don't actually like I'm getting less annoyed with, they make flying around a little more tense and interesting. That's in theory, I've not actually met any blatant ones in practice yet, the closest being people who appear to be deliberately trying to get hit to get you a bounty and then fire back.
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The sad thing is that I've got the Kickstarter rewards, I just can't remember what was on offer
Better call up all the dictionaries in the world and tell them they are out of business - turns out words don't have meanings after all!
As some people already said, if you don't like other people to cross paths with you there is a solo mode. I guess I am just a carebear casual player.
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Combat players targeting the same trader over and over again can be classed as bullying / griefing (though there is valid argument behind the fact that a player has found a milk run in terms of trading credits and the pirate has found a cow to milk - don't stick to the same run if you're constantly getting interdicted!).
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Being interdicted as a trader and 'held up' by a pirate on a random basis from time to time is NOT griefing. As a trader I look at this as role play. Dropping 4 ton to a pirate from my 100 ton T6 is a small price to pay to save the insurance (and more importantly cargo cost associated with destruction). Look at it as a gift and adding to the whole roleplay aspect of the game. After all there is nothing stopping you from jumping into your 3M cred Viper and hunting the same pirate down if you don't like what they're doing.
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You're confusing competitive arena games and sandbox games. Both are PvP. One does not cease to be PvP because you have decided you don't like it.
In some respects the quoted post was correct, at some point it ceases to become player versus player and turns into player versus target - not that I'm saying that is griefing though to be clear
Only if one player chooses to be a target.In some respects the quoted post was correct, at some point it ceases to become player versus player and turns into player versus target - not that I'm saying that is griefing though to be clear
Nonsense, some ships in this game are not suited to combat, a viper/conda/python etc vs a hauler is not pvp, it is pvt, (player vs target), and the pilot of the hauler may not have thought, 'I want to be a target in this game' - that's a bit short sighted if I may say.
Snakebite
Banned
I've seen this distinction overlooked many times on this forum, you wouldn't believe the number of people saying that 'if you want PvP then set up a private group' these people do not realise the full potential that a grand MMO space sim such as Elite with a massive playing field and a huge player base and lots of dynamic PvP interaction (and not just ship to ship combat) all set in a dynamic persistent universe, could potentially have.
Going by comments made over the years since FFE, I thought that was what Braben had in mind. I am beginning to wonder if his team are taking a different path.....
I'm pretty sure this one thing is upon which this entire discussion is based. It's all about intent.
If a player interdicts me to take my goods and leave with them, or to kill me because I have a bounty, I have no issue with that. When players decide to shoot and destroy others for absolutely no reason or gain whatsoever, I have a problem with that. Now, I'm a combat pilot, and I've never been successfully destroyed by anyone else, but it's the principle of the thing that bothers me. I was flying in an entirely unarmed T6 once, and was interdicted by a player Viper. I submitted when I saw it was a player. I immediately began typing a message as soon as I loaded into the instance, and halfway through doing that the Viper opened fire. No reason at all, he just started shooting as soon as he got a bead on my ship. All weapons full fire. I escaped, but he had no legitimate ingame reason for doing so...it was only because he could. Now, my definition for what "griefing" is is a little stricter than to include this aforementioned event into it, but I can completely understand if others feel differently.
A viper attacking an unarmed T6 with no bounties and no request for goods is, to some people, totally legit "PvP." I mean yeah, it's not against the game rules or anything, but my point is if you're the kind of person to do this, you're doing it just to be a bully and enjoy misery of others and for no other reason. No monetary gain or otherwise, and definitely not for a challenging battle. He wanted to kill me only because I was a player in an unarmed ship, and he wanted to giggle in glee as my ship exploded, though I was happy to disappoint him.
However, players attacking others for obvious gain, either for bounties or to take their stuff, should never be discouraged from gameplay or labeled as "griefing." As usual, this is a topic with two extremes, and reality lands somewhere in the middle. Some people think any pvp is considered griefing, and those few are usually the ones who cry about be attacked by anyone ever for any reason. Others think it's totally okay to shoot and kill anyone anytime anywhere just because you can and that it's completely fine. It's neither of those, but I'm willing to bet the past ten pages of this thread showcase quite a few discussing this as though it's a binary issue.
And who chose to fly a non-combat ship? Oh right, the guy flying it.
Oh come on, its a 'progression' ship of sorts, some choose it, not with the intention of 'I want to be a target' but with the intention of progression, come on take off the macho eve hat for a second, you know that to be true.
This is where your reasoning breaks down - "I can't identify the reason he did this, so I will make up a reason for him, and assume I'm right".
When I kill someone in Battlefield, it's not to make someone miserable.
When I kill someone in Dota, it's not to make someone miserable.
When I kill someone in Elite, it's not to make someone miserable.
In none of those games do I / would I hesistate to kill anyone I came across I thought I could kill.
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It is not the developer, its the player base. Having a Solo mode gives people the option, especially new starters, to develop their skills and build up their ships and bank balance before they then jump into the Open and potentially PVP arena. I believe that as the game expands and players move away from the populated core, interaction with other players will be less common and will be more valued by the player base.
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I agree with the inclusion of the Solo mode as it gives players the choice rather than forcing then into PVP where potentially they have a duck shoot leaving the stations from the starting systems, and get shot down on their first outing by those griefers / gankers who enjoy nothing more than p**sing off others.
What the heck is 'progression'?
You choose to fly an unarmed ship in a game where you know there are other players who can and will shoot you, accept that you will die sometimes. That is why there is a variety of types of ship, instead of just one catch-all kind that can fight perfectly while also trading. If you don't want to be unarmed, fly an armed ship.
And there is no EVE-hat here. The delusion that shooting things in shooting games is a crime is an MMO-player-exlusive one. I could put on my Dota hat, or my Battlefield hat, or actually any multiplayer game I've ever played.
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