PVP is pointless

Jockey79 · Apr 20, 2015

kingchub said:
hahaha omg. if you want to play EVE then go play EVE.

Do not try and turn this game into eve.

May I just say..

CALLED IT !!!

I totally called it on page 1

I should have gone the bookies !!! darn it !!!

GJ51 · Apr 20, 2015

Clipper on sale at 15Mil is a steal.

Probably the best value in the game right now.

Normal space sustained speed of 441 if you know how.

jmp470 · Apr 20, 2015

Branko said:
You're not dead in a smaller ship - unless the big ship is a Clipper and you can't fight it off (and as a fighter, it's not all that good). Otherwise small ships are considerably faster. You boost out of weapon range and run away.

Multipurpose ships are just that - multipurpose. Between a Viper and a Cobra, or Vulture and an Asp (roughly combat and multipurpose of similar pricetag) it's pretty clear which is the better fighter.

Anyway, Elite: Dangerous has a very very very forgiving "punishment" for dying.

You get your ship back and all modules as well, for a very small price. Compare and contrast, to, say, EVE, where the poster obviously comes from, where you just lose it altogether. I've played EVE for a very long time, as a mostly solo pirate, and some of my record kills are multi-billion ships; this is approximately a month and so of someone grinding. In terms of RL money since in EVE you can trade in-game currency for game time cards, one of my kills lost the guy approximately 90$ at the going rate in the day. In a two minute fight. So excuse me if I laugh at this harsh punishment for PVP / ship loss in Elite. There's nothing harsh about it.

What made it so thrilling (in EvE) is that you could not only lose money fast, but also make money, because roughly half the modules dropped when you killed a ship. So when you'd get really lucky and run into someone with juicy very high value stuff, I could earn the loss cost of my pirate ship more then a dozen times over - and ordinarly fit ships also made a steady although low-ish profit.

The same thing which makes Elite PvP so forgiving - insurance for both ship and modules - also makes it rather low profit - you just get someone's bounty, and/or cargo if you shoot at the cargo hatch or use limpets. Since modules are insured they cannot be possibly salvaged in any way. It's how it is - game is still fun without meaningful PvP, though.

They do not destroy PvP (that's redicilous to say, sorry). EvE is designed in a way that these modules work well and fit well into the game (ignoring the occasional balance screwup the creators make, but well, it's understandable in a MMO going on for so long). However including them here would profoundly change things, and I'm not convinced it would change things for the better at all.

Ideally I would like to get more reward out of PvP but it's realistically not going to happen, as players dread having to pay insurance already when they lose a ship. However Elite is fun enough as it is even without a well functioning / rewarding PvP part.

EVE is one of the worst games created, IMO. It was a pay to win system. Pay the developers and you will gain much over everyone else. On the other hand, ED and hopefully not SC are the complete opposite and are wonderful to play. Focusing more on your ability to pilot a ship versus pay real $$$.

hannibal0216 · Apr 20, 2015

soma said:
Basically what you are saying sounds like

"Hey I have figured out that the Vulture has a really good turn rate. When I fight clueless pilots who get in turning fights with me, I can totally win. Now please add modules that remove the advantages other ships might have on the Vulture so I can kill everyone. kthxbye."

I agree that combat logging and supercruise shield recharge are problems that need to be addressed. But superior top speeds and better mass lock factors are advantages other ships have over the Vulture. Asking for them to be neutralized is like asking for a module which reduces the Vulture's turn rate by 50%...

this, again. +1

Endziel · Apr 20, 2015

LARY STARKEEPER said:
There is no "Totally unbreakable of the death ship".

My Anaconda build is pretty much this "unbreakable of the death ship".

There is no good ship

Yes there are. Viper, Cobra, Asp, Vulture, FDL, Anaconda, the haulers. All good ships for different purposes.

there is no bad ship

Orca and Federal Dropship say hi.

take some railguns and shutdown his engines

But I guess you're the bad player here since you think railguns are still viable.

hannibal0216 · Apr 20, 2015

Loetmichel said:
Says who?

says everyone who plays the game

Luniticisi · Apr 20, 2015

in response to the thread title........

yep.

cheekibreekisuka · Apr 20, 2015

Xfour said:
A day ago i hat beaten some FDLs. I spent time to learn how to overturn them.
Probably i still not reached perfect pvp skill but, i have no idea how it can help me with this: the just run away, as well the vulture can't masslock them.

In most of FPS as example a tank always in danger because skilled players can shot them from behing.

But there FDLs/Anacondas can feel themselves in complete impunity.

My suggestion: introduce 2 new modules: Stasis webifier and FSD scrambler.
First - reduce speed by 60%
Second - prevent ships from supercruising in 9km range.

And fix combat log.

great, another viper/vulture crybaby who wants to beat a naval destroyer with a row boat

PotatoOverdose · Apr 20, 2015

This game isn't vultures online. Vultures have great shields, great firepower, the second best maneuverability in the game, and are dirt cheap to boot. The one thing they can't do is masslock, or in Eve parlance, tackle. That's called balance - where one single ship is not the be all and end all of a particular activity. To draw an eve analogy - a Nyx can't drop a hictor bubble or use an infinipoint, and neither can a dramiel.

If you want to catch people and hold them down, get an FdL or a Clipper and kill commanders all day long.

The moment you give vultures the ability to slow (web) other ships or masslock, there becomes little reason to fly anything else.

Endziel · Apr 20, 2015

Vultures actually have ridiculous shields. Baselevel (= no shield boosters) practically same as Pythons.

Jordan Cobalt · Apr 20, 2015

I agree, with the way the game is now pvp combat is completely optional(with a few exceptions). There needs to be a massive balance of ship mass disruption, fsd jumping time, submit cooldown time, ship, and shield health. We'd also benefit from more tools to help bounty hunters or pirates.

Ralph Vargr · Apr 20, 2015

Jordan Cobalt said:
I agree, with the way the game is now pvp combat is completely optional(with a few exceptions). There needs to be a massive balance of ship mass disruption, fsd jumping time, submit cooldown time, ship, and shield health. We'd also benefit from more tools to help bounty hunters or pirates.

When I'm in combat, it's because I've run out of options and luck...

Branko · Apr 20, 2015

jmp470 said:
EVE is one of the worst games created, IMO. It was a pay to win system. Pay the developers and you will gain much over everyone else. On the other hand, ED and hopefully not SC are the complete opposite and are wonderful to play. Focusing more on your ability to pilot a ship versus pay real $$$.

Nonsense. EvE is a normal pay to play MMO, with the caveat that you can buy ISK from other players using game time cards. If you think that piloting your ship is irrelevant next to buying game cash with dollars, well... you didn't play much of it (or well). A fool and his bought ship are easily parted - and you can take his stuff, which is the most beautiful part of it.

ED has some things over EvE, but on the other hand EvE has some things over ED as well. They're just different. You don't need to show your support for this game by badmouthing another (but neither do I support the OP's desire to have the tackle modules just copied over). Different games for different tastes, different mechanics, and different approach. It doesn't make one better then the other.

ED simply is not based on player competition, for good or ill (except exploration), while EvE is the other way around - entirely different concept.

CMDR Skallagrimm · Apr 20, 2015

Please, just one time, just one little time, can we have a suggestion that is not from Eve Online.
Two seperate games with two totally different foundations on all levels.
I enjoyed Eve a great deal and I do miss it sometimes. There are some things we can draw upon from Eve online. But only that which doesn't change the game into something else.

m here to play Elite

angerous...

Please stop the 'omgwtfbbq I cant kill this guy give me some mods too pin down and annihilate my enemy and dont give them any defences' nonsense.

1. Learn to fly.
2. Learn and understand ship strengths and weaknesses.
3. Stop whinging.

Heathy · Apr 20, 2015

I think its pretty hard to suggest something that isn't already in Eve online in some form, that game, those Devs have had 12 years to perfect the idea of what makes space conflict fun, the amount of brainstorming must be phenomenal. if you pour over Eves modules, its game play features, you'll find they have covered basically every avenue you would expect to find. so when someone suggests a method of stopping ppl from warping away, yes Eve has that, ED has mass lock but unbalanced for smaller ships, perhaps. Its tough because it seems as though the game isn't really balanced around the idea of pvp like Eve is. for Eve pvp is the be all end all, for elite its just an option.

Mltdwn · Apr 20, 2015

To OP, welcome to reality, life isn't fair and neither is E

... What IS fair though is that you have choices you can make to improve the situation (not engage those stronger than you, improve yuor flight skills, kitting, etc.).... And quite frankly that is why I love and prefer E

over something like Star Citizen (I won't lie, I am so getting SC on release, but E

is my Hard Sci-Fi fix), because the devs went the hard sci-fi route ala something like the Honor Harrington route rather than going space fantasy like say Star Wars, Wing Commander and the like (absolutely love those franchises but not as hard sci-fi). There is no ships with large protrusions sticking out to get yanked off and burned up upon re-entering atmo, everything has its place and role without depending on the holy trinity of Tank/DPS/Healer (ala Eve and SC), and when you play the game it feels like, to someone who knows the science, this could be plausible (I think SC could be plausible but not without their ships having to use carriers to transfer between planet side and space).

It's that attention to detail that makes E

special. It is the Honor Harrington, or High Frontier (an awesome realistic space boardgame made by an actual aerospace engineer and rocket scientist) of the PC gaming world, and again that is what makes it so fantastic and wonderful, especially when we already have an industry filled by space opera, high fantasy, and every other game under the sun. I've been yearning for a "Jane's Space Sim" to come out and finally it has.

Mltdwn · Apr 20, 2015

Heathy said:
I think its pretty hard to suggest something that isn't already in Eve online in some form, that game, those Devs have had 12 years to perfect the idea of what makes space conflict fun, the amount of brainstorming must be phenomenal. if you pour over Eves modules, its game play features, you'll find they have covered basically every avenue you would expect to find. so when someone suggests a method of stopping ppl from warping away, yes Eve has that, ED has mass lock but unbalanced for smaller ships, perhaps. Its tough because it seems as though the game isn't really balanced around the idea of pvp like Eve is. for Eve pvp is the be all end all, for elite its just an option.

Eve is based on the Holy Trinity of MMO (Tank/DPS/Healer), E

is based on a little something called science.... So thank you but no... I will gladly keep my Sci-Fi in E

to be heavy on the realism and less on the fantasy. You could take Eve and WoW, look at the abilities/modules and switch the names of the abilities between the two and it would still work. Thank you but no. I have plenty of fantasy/fantasy based sci-fi based on the Holy Trinity that it is refreshing to have one based far more in reality. No healing lasers here please.

Ralph Vargr · Apr 20, 2015

Heathy said:
For Eve, PvP is the be all end all, for Elite it's just an option.

That sums it up.

Edited original post for clarity.

Heathy · Apr 20, 2015

Mltdwn said:
Eve is based on the Holy Trinity of MMO (Tank/DPS/Healer), E is based on a little something called science.... So thank you but no... I will gladly keep my Sci-Fi in E to be heavy on the realism and less on the fantasy. You could take Eve and WoW, look at the abilities/modules and switch the names of the abilities between the two and it would still work. Thank you but no. I have plenty of fantasy/fantasy based sci-fi based on the Holy Trinity that it is refreshing to have one based far more in reality. No healing lasers here please.

well your simply wrong, there are more roles than 3, yes you have dps heals and tanks, but you also have support, and the non combat roles. think of the logistics as firing nanobots maybe? the beam is the energy powering them, easy to consider. personally i think having more roles is kinda more fun than just having one combat role, dps doesn't leave much room for complexity or variety or specialisation.

keep your snide comments, you could switch abilities you sound idiotic, so i could switch a rail gun with heroic strike, what dream world are you living in? where that makes even the slightly bit of sense. so i could switch the plasma accelerator with the black hole gun from mass effect so, elite is mass effect? wut? you can do that nonsense you wrote with practically any 2 games ever made.

also i'm not suggesting anything just opinion sharing, so those 'no thanks' aimed at me are misplaced.

i'm sorry but i was more immersed in Eve than I have been with Elite, don't get me wrong Elite does a fine job for a while but it doesn't take long to find/see something that is far far far from realistic or simply flat out not there. lets see, infinite ships and modules, faceless factions, every single planet is a perfect sphere, even the ice moons with no atmosphere, realistically you'd be able to do a lot more than you currently can, elite feels way more arcade than sim. i could go on but i won't. plenty of things break immersion. its not a flawless gem either.

dunno why you had to start a row with me, again i didn't suggest anything. i simply stated that it would be hard to think up brand new concepts that doesn't already exist elsewhere..

honestly everyone who bashes eve on these forums for the sake of it, did you even manage to get through the trial or did you just log in fly into a lowsec gate camp die then uninstall because it really seems like thats where all this resentment comes from.

its a bit dated now and was written before the wings update but i think the overall point is still very relevant and probably always will be.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/21/eve-evolved-eve-online-vs-elite-dangerous/

Briarée · Apr 20, 2015

jmp470 said:
EVE is one of the worst games created, IMO. It was a pay to win system. Pay the developers and you will gain much over everyone else. On the other hand, ED and hopefully not SC are the complete opposite and are wonderful to play. Focusing more on your ability to pilot a ship versus pay real $$$.

wait what? lol
i suggest you actually learn about tha game, and how it is "pay to win".....never heard something that ridiculous about eve, and i've heard a lot about it (hint, 5 year lowsec / wh pirate here)