Me too.
PvP (Open) commanders not welcome on this forum?...
- Thread starter Globusdiablo
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Me too.
I dunno Agony, it might just be me but I feel like I see you take part in the flaming torch and pitchfork side of things when it comes to PVP more so than saying stuff like don't villianise these guys and lets all play in open or try and get to know/understand them better.
Might just be me, sorry if that's the case.
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E.D. is not what playing an MMO-type game means. You say it's your first, maybe you should take a leap of faith and trust us. I've been playing MMO's since late 90's, Asheron's Call was my first one. I've played most of them, more or less until now, and i can tell you that i've never played an MMO with a complete lack of competition or an absolutely inexistant PvP system (good or bad, with crime and punishment or not, rewards and perks or not). The PvP system is inexistant in E.D and thats atipical and rarely found in most MMO's out there.
This is getting stupid. I don't say that because of the acrimonious tone or the way sincerely but strongly held viewpoints have degenerated into ad hominem attacks against some mythical stereotype of "the other side" but purely and simply because it's just plain DAFT.
Back right at the start, when there were only a handful of systems to fly in, when the only high-tech system to outfit at was Aulin Enterprise and the only Cmdrs were alpha or beta backers, PvP-focused and PvE-focused players coexisted just fine. There was one anarchy system where if you flew through it and saw another Cmdr you had a better than even chance of ending up in a fight but the only real "griefer" in the game was Dahan Gateway which was as likely as not to glitch while you were docking and suddenly jump to occupying the same space as your ship with spectacularly fatal results.
As the number of players grew, continuously expanding as the game approached release, two trends started to appear on this forum. They were similar in nature but diametrically opposed in their vision for the game. They were embodied by two groups of forum participants, both of them distinct minorities but remarkably similar in their approach to their opposed goals. On the one side was a small bunch that wanted nothing but a co-op PvE environment in ED. On the other were those that wanted PvP to be king. Small as these groups were, they played the forum meta-game so familiar to those of us who have ever participated on game forums where the developers gave any hint of "listening to the community" in exactly the same way, denigrating the opposing viewpoint, attacking every hint of support for their opposite numbers while advancing a watered-down view of their own approach in terms of reason, hoping to get the camel's nose into the tent.
FD quite rightly ignored both and proceeded with their vision for the game, which by design made neither the 100% PvE game nor the 100% PvP game dominant over the other. Nobody was forced to cope with any others play style, but all had to accept that those others whose play style they chose to avoid (or who chose to avoid theirs) had just as much influence on the progression of the game universe as they did.
Naturally, this did not sit well with either group. Obviously their play style was "superior" and should be the most effective way of influencing the game! Even the most cursory scan of the forums history will reveal the rage and tears of frustration from both types of player as FD have continued to adamantly refuse to cater to either to the exclusion of the other. It's got to the mind-blowingly stupid stage where quite reasonable steps by FD to improve the combat experience in the game are decried by the PvE extremists as "knuckling under to the PvP crowd", where any equivalent steps to improve the PvE experience are equally derided by the PvP extremists. As seems to have become inevitable on any game forum, or even on any internet forum whatsoever, the signal to noise ratio in the discussions has predictably tanked.
The game is not designed to be either of the things that those two extreme camps want and it never will be.
This is a departure from the dominant tropes in multiplayer games. Most of them, today, seem to be tailored to primarily suit one viewpoint over the other and FD have deliberately not followed either path with ED.
The PvP enthusiasts are surely tired of hearing that ED is not a PvP-centric game, true as that may be. The PvE enthusiasts may not be as used to hearing this but they also need to accept that in the default mode of playing the game they don't get to opt out of PvP either. It's not going to be tailored to suit one play-style to the exclusion of the other. You can choose to play it exclusively in one style or another, but nothing you do can force any other player to participate with you in your play style if they aren't willing to. Personally, being up for playing in different styles as the mood (and state of my 'net connection) allow, I'm perfectly fine with that. So, I think, are a majority of the folks participating in discussions on this forum.
If that makes the extremists on either end of the bell-curve feel "unwelcome" here, I'm sorry to say it but the forum is better for their absence.
Back right at the start, when there were only a handful of systems to fly in, when the only high-tech system to outfit at was Aulin Enterprise and the only Cmdrs were alpha or beta backers, PvP-focused and PvE-focused players coexisted just fine. There was one anarchy system where if you flew through it and saw another Cmdr you had a better than even chance of ending up in a fight but the only real "griefer" in the game was Dahan Gateway which was as likely as not to glitch while you were docking and suddenly jump to occupying the same space as your ship with spectacularly fatal results.
As the number of players grew, continuously expanding as the game approached release, two trends started to appear on this forum. They were similar in nature but diametrically opposed in their vision for the game. They were embodied by two groups of forum participants, both of them distinct minorities but remarkably similar in their approach to their opposed goals. On the one side was a small bunch that wanted nothing but a co-op PvE environment in ED. On the other were those that wanted PvP to be king. Small as these groups were, they played the forum meta-game so familiar to those of us who have ever participated on game forums where the developers gave any hint of "listening to the community" in exactly the same way, denigrating the opposing viewpoint, attacking every hint of support for their opposite numbers while advancing a watered-down view of their own approach in terms of reason, hoping to get the camel's nose into the tent.
FD quite rightly ignored both and proceeded with their vision for the game, which by design made neither the 100% PvE game nor the 100% PvP game dominant over the other. Nobody was forced to cope with any others play style, but all had to accept that those others whose play style they chose to avoid (or who chose to avoid theirs) had just as much influence on the progression of the game universe as they did.
Naturally, this did not sit well with either group. Obviously their play style was "superior" and should be the most effective way of influencing the game! Even the most cursory scan of the forums history will reveal the rage and tears of frustration from both types of player as FD have continued to adamantly refuse to cater to either to the exclusion of the other. It's got to the mind-blowingly stupid stage where quite reasonable steps by FD to improve the combat experience in the game are decried by the PvE extremists as "knuckling under to the PvP crowd", where any equivalent steps to improve the PvE experience are equally derided by the PvP extremists. As seems to have become inevitable on any game forum, or even on any internet forum whatsoever, the signal to noise ratio in the discussions has predictably tanked.
The game is not designed to be either of the things that those two extreme camps want and it never will be.
This is a departure from the dominant tropes in multiplayer games. Most of them, today, seem to be tailored to primarily suit one viewpoint over the other and FD have deliberately not followed either path with ED.
The PvP enthusiasts are surely tired of hearing that ED is not a PvP-centric game, true as that may be. The PvE enthusiasts may not be as used to hearing this but they also need to accept that in the default mode of playing the game they don't get to opt out of PvP either. It's not going to be tailored to suit one play-style to the exclusion of the other. You can choose to play it exclusively in one style or another, but nothing you do can force any other player to participate with you in your play style if they aren't willing to. Personally, being up for playing in different styles as the mood (and state of my 'net connection) allow, I'm perfectly fine with that. So, I think, are a majority of the folks participating in discussions on this forum.
If that makes the extremists on either end of the bell-curve feel "unwelcome" here, I'm sorry to say it but the forum is better for their absence.
I think we should stick with what the OP said,
There is a tournament, which is PVP friendly with consent, we can all agree that it is a good idea, even for PVEer who would like to practice some PVP in good conditions (like me for example).
in opposition we have the gankers, completely different from the nature of the PVP event of saturday "Small Ship Saturday Fight Night!"
Can we all agree that this kind of event should be displayed on the official forum ?
There is a tournament, which is PVP friendly with consent, we can all agree that it is a good idea, even for PVEer who would like to practice some PVP in good conditions (like me for example).
in opposition we have the gankers, completely different from the nature of the PVP event of saturday "Small Ship Saturday Fight Night!"
Can we all agree that this kind of event should be displayed on the official forum ?
I see this all the time, players want a C&P system that will ban all "non-consensual PvP" (I hate that term). that's never going to happen, but I do want a C&P system that lets people live an outlaw life style. as someone who's just getting into PvP and who plays like a Privateer I want to feel like an outsider when I go to lawful systems. but that's not gonna stop me popping a shieldless T-6 if its in my interests to.
Of course, but maybe we should do that in a thread that doesn't accuse the forum community of being hostile towards PvP?
You types are not welcome here with your fancy levelheadedness.
Wheres my pitchfork!
Yeah, it's totally not the fault of people trolling and name-calling at all.
Seriously...
Didnt read the comments.
But while is true that several PVE players whine and cry about everything like some useless brats, which has given us all an undeserved reputation, it is also true that several PVP players show a domineering, disgusting attitude towards everyone else that do not wish to be in their sights ready to be blown up.
Honestly, I have no idea why they think this is a PVP game when the game has no tools to make it a proper PVP platform or experience for that matter, that ends in they abusing a wrongly perceived right that they can shot others just because. This is something FD is completely and totally on fault, and it bothers me terribly their lack of transparency on the topic.
But while is true that several PVE players whine and cry about everything like some useless brats, which has given us all an undeserved reputation, it is also true that several PVP players show a domineering, disgusting attitude towards everyone else that do not wish to be in their sights ready to be blown up.
Honestly, I have no idea why they think this is a PVP game when the game has no tools to make it a proper PVP platform or experience for that matter, that ends in they abusing a wrongly perceived right that they can shot others just because. This is something FD is completely and totally on fault, and it bothers me terribly their lack of transparency on the topic.
You tell me. How shoud i know? You got the definition so you can match or not.
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Well, this thread is surely doing wonders helping with the allegedly unfair bad reputation of PvPers.
OMG thats the premiss of the game its not elite not very dangerous its open meaning you can DO what ever you want when ever you want you cannot have a game with that premiss and say well your not allowed to shoot me because i dont like it the way ahead is to lock the modes if you dont want to be in open dont play in it and if you do want to swap into open then a clear save is the only way
I have no idea why people think this is just a PvE game when the game has no tools to make it a proper PvE platform. if you go in open then we all get thrown in the same game and that's about it. what you do in open is your business but its not a dedicated PvP or PvE game its more just a frame for people to do stuff in.
Agreed!
When I've tried piracy it's reassuring how many "victims" were fine about the gameplay/mechanics taking place. That said I would always give a clear warning, and indeed second warning etc, even if this ultimately meant re-interdicting (even more than once). Destruction (which in truth doesn't help the pirate) was a very very rare outcome, instead I generally threatened and then forcibly extracted cargo.
Indeed some of the highlight moments in the game for me have been while pirating other CMDRs, and even being destroyed when other CMDRs have come after me etc...
It's just a shame piracy is so poorly rewarded as regards PvP... And how little gameplay/depth is currently in the game for it.
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In fact if you are playing even Solo then others are Your content. You can influe their BGS/PP/CG. Then you are dictating terms of play and they can counter You only through the way what you want to play, not they. You have a counter for them (you can refuse pvp direct interaction), but accept other pvp interactions.
They are good in X-Wing way of space combat play. You are good in Master Of orion. They are shooting guys and they are good in it, poor in strategy. You are good in strategy games, but not in pew pew.
Then you have immune to their combat skills because simply they have no chances to meet and stop you, and you can stop them and avoid them by a solo mode and BGS manipulations.
You can troll any biggest faction BGS and they will not able to stop you. They will even have no single chance to know its 'you'. Its not good.
These both things should be connected and depend of each other, then players would take their roles. Now player can refuse everything and do anything to everyone and nobody can stop him.
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True. I even think that black markets and criminal factions should only be available to players with bad karma/reputation etc.
PvP vs PvE choose your character:
My guess is that PvP events usually are a group thing. The wing-mechanic and instancing does not allow for great mass pvp-events.
Maybe this is the reason why PvP players organice in littel groups - becouse it just does not make much sense to invite the whole big Elite Community for an event that can only handle a dozen commanders maximum.
edit: there must be quite some threads in the group section about PvP clans if you care to look. That's where you find it on these forums.
Maybe this is the reason why PvP players organice in littel groups - becouse it just does not make much sense to invite the whole big Elite Community for an event that can only handle a dozen commanders maximum.
edit: there must be quite some threads in the group section about PvP clans if you care to look. That's where you find it on these forums.
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Back in the day it was "Thx for the match!", "Thx for playing" or just "gg". Now people are just "content". I guess that's part of the problem.
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