PvP (Open) commanders not welcome on this forum?...

[GilliganTX]

Is it really the general opinion that the official forum doesn't welcome Open/PvP content?

No.


Known gankers and their affiliates are less welcomed, but that's not universal. There is a false equivalency between PvP and ganking, in general. The grey area around what is "role play" and what is not doesn't help differentiate the two either.

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I can tell you now that he finds no shame in being named.



I find this weird because 13th popped up long after sdc and have been ganking noobs in Eravate for over a month now. Doesn't seem like they have anything to do with sdc at all, other then dying to them of course.

I know.

It was a joke at the 13th's expense.

 

[Jimmysal]

I find this weird because 13th popped up long after sdc and have been ganking noobs in Eravate for over a month now. Doesn't seem like they have anything to do with sdc at all, other then dying to them of course.

Wooooow. Learned something today. I thought 13th went to war with SDC after the Mobius killings for casus belli? Are you sure it's them and not someone flying a false flag? Intriguing. I guess you can't believe everything you read on eurogamer.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...Cut the noise, we're all space nerds here.

Bumper sticker right there!

 

[Comrade Error]

Don't let the voices of the few dictate your opinions on the many.

Rep. Too bad people refuse to do this.

 

[Dathayn]

I've learned a lot from PvP discussions and videos. Even though that playstyle hasn't traditionally been in my wheelhouse. I still appreciated the education and give them props for sharing. I may even give it a try based on things I've learned. Actually been in Open a bit more lately.

It's the attitude that seems to come with the posts that aren't really all that welcome, but that can be found on either side I think. Truth is a three edged sword after all. Your side, their side, and the truth.

I think it would be a loss if pvp'ers stopped contributing to these forums. Maybe we just need a few more fire extinguishers for the place

 

[Zed]

That depends on what you mean by a PvP tournament.

A tournament where PvP players arrange a time a place to meet and engage in combat with each other is unlikely to get much comment from the PvE crowd.

A tournament where PvP players compete to kill as many random players as possible is likely to have said random players commenting quite a lot.

 

[Globusdiablo]

Rep. Too bad people refuse to do this.

I prefer "don't let the voices of the many dictate your opinions on the few".

 

[afreeflyingsoul]

I know we have heated debates, but recent events sadden me.

I recently visited a PvP discord. I learned that they were hosting a PvP event. I asked why they weren't posting it here on the official forum, and the reply was:

"Forums aren't the place for pvp. Posters only cry about it, mods don't like it. Everyone who would be interested is on reddit or on the discord servers we posted to."

The one I spoke with didn't care to elaborate, so I'll just leave the comment here. But I'm genuinly surprised that the official forum isn't considered the goto platform for all who play Elite: Dangerous.

Maybe I'm just unaware of the importance of reddit and discord. Or that this forum was considered toxic by PvPers. I asked if it would be frowned upon if I shared the event here, and got no reply. Consent through silence I guess. So here's a link. It sounds like fun:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/5orehu/event_small_ship_pvp_event_this_saturday/

See you in the black commanders.

(talk about a divided community... )

As someone who doesn't care one way or the other how other people play (I just hope they have fun):

1) PvPers don't like it when they don't win (at anything)
2) Suggestions that take advantage from PvPers result in accusations of whining and choruses of "git gud"
3) PvPers seem to get themselves banned from the forums

On the other hand:

1) PvEers want the best of both worlds, playing with others and not getting "blowed up"
2) PvEers can't agree on anything, what too much for one is not enough for another (and the other party needs to suck it up and deal with the change)
3) PvEers are generally more risk adverse

I think much of this revolves around age, with older folks having less free time (therefore value holding on to what progress they can make more dearly) which tends to put them in the PvE group, whereas the PvPers tend to be younger (less responsibilities, more free time, less risk averse, but also less control over they're actions (hence getting banned and feeling unwelcome)).

And that's really my point, with youth comes folly, with folly comes consequences, and with consequence comes a feeling of exclusion.

 

[ryan_m]

Wooooow. Learned something today. I thought 13th went to war with SDC after the Mobius killings for casus belli? Are you sure it's them and not someone flying a false flag? Intriguing. I guess you can't believe everything you read on eurogamer.

I can tell you first hand that 13th has been in Eravate for a couple weeks now dusting ships left and right regardless of whether they're PvP fit or not. They dunk on newbies because they can't kill actual PvPers.

 

[lokvette]

edit: never mind...

 

[xondk]

.

All are welcome.

Unfortunately as is the nature of this whole debate across so many games, is that parts of both the PvE crowd and the PvP crowd (those dedicated to either, entirely) will toss the victim card.
And the whole debate being as lopsided as it is. PvP'ers need other players including PvE people to attack, however PvE does not need PvP'ers, it is often the PvP crowd that pulls the victim card, again in more then just Elite.

Frankly the whole thing is sad, as someone that enjoy both parts near equally when appropriate, it is frustrating.
PvP'ers need to realise that they themselves have a responsibility to control themselves and those that give them a bad rep, unfortunately given the competitive nature of some, that isn't an easy thing to happen, often others are blamed, course the majority of the 'bad' PvP'ers aren't really interested in competition or in my book actual PvP, attacking defenceless targets for instance in my book has nothing to do with PvP, there is no challenge or effort in it.

PvE'ers though need to stop with the knee jerk reactions that all PvP'ers and PvP is bad, because it most certainly isn't, again going from the perspective that attacking someone substantially weaker then yourself has nothing to do with PvP, just like attacking people researching ruins has nothing to do with PvP, that is griefing plain and simple.

Unfortunately, separating the PvP'ers from griefers is a tough one, and sometimes they are one and the same.

So if you enjoy actual PvP, I don't see it as you being unwelcome, just maybe remember to empathise that its PvP and not griefing you are interested in, challenges from fighting against other players. Not the need to laugh at them when you stomp them.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...I think much of this revolves around age, with older folks having less free time (therefore value holding on to what progress they can make more dearly) which tends to put them in the PvE group, whereas the PvPers tend to be younger (less responsibilities, more free time, less risk averse, but also less control over they're actions (hence getting banned and feeling unwelcome))...

I think you might be on to something there, but it's sad if PvPers don't consider the official forum their home too.

 

[GilliganTX]

As someone who doesn't care one way or the other how other people play (I just hope they have fun):

1) PvPers don't like it when they don't win (at anything)
2) Suggestions that take advantage from PvPers result in accusations of whining and choruses of "git gud"
3) PvPers seem to get themselves banned from the forums

On the other hand:

1) PvEers want the best of both worlds, playing with others and not getting "blowed up"
2) PvEers can't agree on anything, what too much for one is not enough for another (and the other party needs to suck it up and deal with the change)
3) PvEers are generally more risk adverse

I think much of this revolves around age, with older folks having less free time (therefore value holding on to what progress they can make more dearly) which tends to put them in the PvE group, whereas the PvPers tend to be younger (less responsibilities, more free time, less risk averse, but also less control over they're actions (hence getting banned and feeling unwelcome)).

And that's really my point, with youth comes folly, with folly comes consequences, and with consequence comes a feeling of exclusion.

That depends on what you mean by a PvP tournament.

A tournament where PvP players arrange a time a place to meet and engage in combat with each other is unlikely to get much comment from the PvE crowd.

A tournament where PvP players compete to kill as many random players as possible is likely to have said random players commenting quite a lot.

OP:

These two posts are somewhat illustrative of the problem at hand: Over generalization. There is more overlap than many will admit. There are a multitude of individual opinions and attitudes about "PvP" and its place in elite, and relegating the entire player base one folder for PvE, and one for PvP isn't useful for understanding the dynamics and politics at work, or constructive for bridging that divide.

 

[Don Alvarez]

That just sound like sour grapes to me and a cop out answer. If they want to host a PvP event in open I see no reason why even the most staunch PvE or solo player in this forum would have issue with it. Unless they wanted to use it as a platform to advance an Open-Only agenda, but if its just to advertise an event who would care really?

Shame they feel that way, because there are probably alot of people on the fence about PvP they might convince to come out for a spin and give it a try.

 

[ShimEnki]

Dude, people cry about how hard NPC AI is here. They cry about how hard trading is. They cry about how hard it is to travel from one end of the bubble to the other. They cry that they aren't running the Federation Navy after 2 sessions of grinding rep. They cry that paying the game 18MCr to transport their 300MCr warship across the bubble is too expensive and takes too long.

PVP? Real competition and risk? You're in the wrong neighborhood friend. And it's a damn shame.

Do you guys wash up after you're done with all that pvp impassioned social intercoursing with one another for the eve or just let it linger under the nails till next time?

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That just sound like sour grapes to me and a cop out answer. If they want to host a PvP event in open I see no reason why even the most staunch PvE or solo player in this forum would have issue with it. Unless they wanted to use it as a platform to advance an Open-Only agenda, but if its just to advertise an event who would care really?

Shame they feel that way, because there are probably alot of people on the fence about PvP they might convince to come out for a spin and give it a try.

I agree, i actually learn a lot from them as it does take a heck of a lot more skill and directed intensity to bout another soul...Its just too bad most use pvp to
mitigate other non game issues which spills over quite easily as we've seen above...

 

[amysteriousstranger]

I can tell you first hand that 13th has been in Eravate for a couple weeks now dusting ships left and right regardless of whether they're PvP fit or not. They dunk on newbies because they can't kill actual PvPers.

Can confirm, I've seen them killing sidewinders left and right, usually with shield torpedoes on unsuspecting people

 

[xondk]

Dude, people cry about how hard NPC AI is here. They cry about how hard trading is. They cry about how hard it is to travel from one end of the bubble to the other. They cry that they aren't running the Federation Navy after 2 sessions of grinding rep. They cry that paying the game 18MCr to transport their 300MCr warship across the bubble is too expensive and takes too long.

PVP? Real competition and risk? You're in the wrong neighborhood friend. And it's a damn shame.

Personally I wouldn't go that far, the amount of people actually "Crying" so to put it, is a vocal minority, as it is with many many many other games, there are significantly more people that aren't.
But PvP'ers can tend to hear that loud whine and since it basically is directly opposite of what they are most players desire and that those people blame away at PvP'ers loudly, well there's the conflict to you.

But yes, gaming culture/gaming developers have certainly primed a LOT of players for a _LOT_ easier games, this is clearly evident in the lack of complexity even most triple A games have now, they go for the 'safe' road what most people want.
And so so so many games just hand out things to players left right and center.

 

[Weps]

PvP in Elite: Dangerous is easily associated with abuse and unfairness because of its asymmetrical nature which the developers seem adamant in maintaining. I can understand why someone who considers himself a PvPer would think twice before blowing his horn about it.

 

[Globusdiablo]

Can confirm, I've seen them killing sidewinders left and right, usually with shield torpedoes on unsuspecting people

Sounds like an obvious playground for the righteous PvP community. Or are Adle's Armada and the 13 th. the only groups finding purpose there?

 

[Blackcompany]

Dude, people cry about how hard NPC AI is here. They cry about how hard trading is. They cry about how hard it is to travel from one end of the bubble to the other. They cry that they aren't running the Federation Navy after 2 sessions of grinding rep. They cry that paying the game 18MCr to transport their 300MCr warship across the bubble is too expensive and takes too long.

PVP? Real competition and risk? You're in the wrong neighborhood friend. And it's a damn shame.

No one cries because these things are too hard. That's you projecting, so you can feel better about you.

People (rightly) complain about these things because most are tedious, not because they are hard. You may not realize this, but there is a difference.