I agree with your nerfs. It seems like a lot of people were expecting the Python to be the best at everything, as some sort of crappy MMO progression style. It was a "higher level" to them. Glad to see it finally be brought more in line with what it should have been. Hoping to see ships occupy their roles more instead of all just being various tiers of fighters, that make the preceding tier obsolete, like some people seem to want.
Python/Class 6 thruster issue? (Devs please have a look)
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I agree with your nerfs. It seems like a lot of people were expecting the Python to be the best at everything, as some sort of crappy MMO progression style. It was a "higher level" to them. Glad to see it finally be brought more in line with what it should have been. Hoping to see ships occupy their roles more instead of all just being various tiers of fighters, that make the preceding tier obsolete, like some people seem to want.
How could you measure that? As far as I could see there are no numbers indicating anything in this game when upgrading internal componenents
Have you read this thread? I calculated it based on my tests. Read the first page and find the two tables I posted. If you still have some questions, shoot me a PM and I'll try to explain it.
I did but you measured the time needed to make turns. So there is human error in measuring start/stop time and stuff like that. So it's not 100% accurate.
I just thought there are some values somewhere hidden in the game or some files.
Correct, it's not 100% accurate, but given that I repeated each test 5 times (or more in a couple of cases), and got a fairly small range of results, I think it was 'good enough'. Plus the point I was trying to make had to do with what will be a 'noticeable' change. And I was saying "I noticed a difference, and when I took some time to measure it, it turned out it was only around 5%".
Now, the one thing I don't know about these changes is if it will be a direct correlation of the numbers Mike posted to the numbers I got when I did my tests. I'll do them again when the changes hit (assuming I still own a Python), and I'll know for sure then.
Mike Evans :
Please consider to release Heavy fighters at the same time/before you nerf the Python...
I love fighting, but I had to trade 2 weeks to move from a Viper to my Python. That was really boring. But I did it beacause flying Viper/Cobra was boring too. With the nerf you are planning, the game will stop at Viper/Cobra for peaple who like fighting, this is not right.
I am not going back in a Viper, so please consider releasing Heavy Fighters before you nerf the Python.
Please consider to release Heavy fighters at the same time/before you nerf the Python...
I love fighting, but I had to trade 2 weeks to move from a Viper to my Python. That was really boring. But I did it beacause flying Viper/Cobra was boring too. With the nerf you are planning, the game will stop at Viper/Cobra for peaple who like fighting, this is not right.
I am not going back in a Viper, so please consider releasing Heavy Fighters before you nerf the Python.
This sounds like a re-run of "what the heck have they done to the Vipers top speed?"
I can't be sure but most combat is in the 60 - 100 m/s speed range with some boosts to get out of trouble or get a better aspect on the target, with a powerful ship like the Python (even after balancing) I wouldn't think you'd need to do much running so what's the big issue?
I can't be sure but most combat is in the 60 - 100 m/s speed range with some boosts to get out of trouble or get a better aspect on the target, with a powerful ship like the Python (even after balancing) I wouldn't think you'd need to do much running so what's the big issue?
I'm perfectly fine with your method, don't get me wrong. I was genuinely interested if there are some real values provided by the game itself.
Thanks for your effort, nonetheless!
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To you I can only say the same as to the others before you. Wait for the actual changes to happen and test it for yourself before making false assumptions. Read the quote below, that's a truth many tend to overlook.
This sounds like a re-run of "what the heck have they done to the Vipers top speed?"
I can't be sure but most combat is in the 60 - 100 m/s speed range with some boosts to get out of trouble or get a better aspect on the target, with a powerful ship like the Python (even after balancing) I wouldn't think you'd need to do much running so what's the big issue?
Though top speed has its importance (especially when trying to bring some distance between you and your opponent) you are completely right.
Will these changes be rolled out before, during or after the shield cell changes? It seems to me creating lots of negative sentiment (even if it goes away on the forum it'll take a lot longer to win back in people's minds. i.e just because it went away on the forum doesn't mean it went away..) is something that should be avoided if at all possible.
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Would it not be better to give more back first before you take something away? For example, put in the shield cell fixes, add in new ships and maybe fix turrets before nerfing a ship many people have spent days and weeks playing to get? I.e validate the proposed changes against the new baseline rather than before it.
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IMHO it would be better to fix several broad issues first and *then* see what needs to be changed on every ship rather than create ill will and then have to change it back later. Change a core thing.. measure.. change one thing.. measure... etc
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Perhaps when you create the test server have these changes rolled out so you can get feedback there before unleashing them onto an already vocal public?
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Please quit the mentality that devs took anything away from us. Things have been adjusted, that's all. We don't need and much less deserve anything 'given' to us before they are allowed to do their jobs.
Just out of curiosity, have you flown the Python?
it's about perception, which is often more important than pure numbers.. If people didn't perceive something was being taken away there wouldn't be the fuss over it. Perception has killed more games, companies and communities than 'facts' ever did. If perception wasn't important, then why do companies spend billions trying to improve it?
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nothing is as dramatic as forums make it sound. people not on the forums probably wont even realize such changes.
and beta tests are good but actually if it would be overpowered nobody in the beta test would complain, just like it happened with the past beta.
I never did, but wouldn't mind the same happening to my Viper (which basically already received similar changes in the past).
I have assets worth of 30 millions, it's not like I couldn't grind to a Python if I didn't want to, I just hate the repetitive character trading has.
Still I am very experienced in combat and therefore, at least I believe so, eligible to make those statements.
Edit: "We don't need and much less deserve anything 'given' to us before they are allowed to do their jobs."
This stands as my opinion despite I have never flown the Python, it has nothing to do with it.
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Well but that's exactly my point. Not a single one of those criticizing the changes made to the Python ever actually experienced them (because they are not yet implemented, duh..).
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You can simulate them, just swap to the modules which give the closest values. E.g Swap your 6a shield with a D5 one.
Were the shield cell bank changes already announced?
You are of course right, I'll give you that. Though I guarantee no one has already done so
It doesn't matter, the changes will be made whether people like it or not and as Mike already said they will remain monitored and adjusted if needed.
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Not officially as far as I can see
Hey Mike, request for you. I don't mind that some ships (like the Viper) can barely exceed their listed max speed because even with the best drives they're hardly underweight, while others (like the Cobra) can go significanly faster than their listed max because they can mount upgraded thrusters with an "optimal mass" that's *much* higher than the ship mass.
It would be nice, though, if there was some way to see the maximum *potential* speed/nimbleness of a ship, as well as its stock stats. Any chance we could get something like that?
Don't think so. But they will change the 'meta' quite a bit, esp for larger ships and since using SC's as a way of making up for reduced shields on the Python it'd make sense for that to be in first as it would be silly to nerf something, citing a mitigation only for that mitigation to go away and therefore make the nerf more substantial than intended.
Source https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102670&page=15&p=1592652&viewfull=1#post1592652
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Very happy to hear about the agility and speed reductions. The Python doesn't match it's description text at all currently, nor it's history in the Elite series. I don't mind the FdL constrictors being powerful when pressed into a fighting role, but they are not dedicated combat ships. Large ships in general need to give a sense of mass and inertia, and not move like fighters writ large.
Very happy to hear about the agility and speed reductions. The Python doesn't match it's description text at all currently, nor it's history in the Elite series. I don't mind the FdL constrictors being powerful when pressed into a fighting role, but they are not dedicated combat ships. Large ships in general need to give a sense of mass and inertia, and not move like fighters writ large.
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