Python/Class 6 thruster issue? (Devs please have a look)

[Dejay]

Or would you rather play in a galaxy where everyone has to fly a python otherwise you haven't a hope?

Frankly yes. A 6.000.000 credit ship should blow a 300.000 credit ship out of the water. BAM dead. Like, no chance except for running. Deal with it. Which is actually a very valid tactic against a python because it is rather slow.

This isn't some kind of arcade style racing game where every car should be "equal". It's progression and risk vs. reward. Stay in your cobra or viper if you like but just don't expect to have a chance against a much larger and bigger ship.

So if you make the cost for a python the same as the cobra then yes you can nerf it.

But this is just another nail in the coffin. I'm already no longer playing ED because it has ZERO challenges. It's far far easier than games like WoW for example. The only way you can possibly "die" is by ramming into the spacedock or a bug. What is even the point of balancing? PVP gameplay is so rare in ED. Plus grinding credits, ranking and rating is boring because there are only 4 types of missions. And no social features. Chat doesn't work. No narrative at all that the player has any direct agency in.

 

[graham.reeds]

But the python is different to a cobra. It has much more mass. Iirc the cargo bay on a python is larger than a cobra is. You have more, a bigger, hard points. The python should not out manoeuvre a cobra or viper. The python should not be impervious to all but other pythons.

 

[Poseidal]

Deal with it.

In 1.1, consider the Python dealt with.

 

[SpiralRazor]

Please keep this thread constructive, and go to other threads to discuss the pros and cons of changing the Python. What I think will help FD is to list some ideas as to how to change the ship without causing a fire sale of pythons
.
Let's start off with the stated aim for Python and that is to be a heavily armed 'gun boat'.

So bearing that in mind, what would you do to make Python better fit that description. Remember keep them constructive, and give a reason for suggesting the change. Remember this is a brainstorm so there are no bad ideas

The below is the current thoughts from FD as to the changes.
33% reduction in overall shield effectiveness.

These are the actual changes proposed to the Python https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102717&page=5&p=1593196&viewfull=1#post1593196

		From	To	% reduction
Base Shield Health		390	360	7.69
0 Pips to engines
Maximum Speed		160	140	12.50
Max Boosted Speed		280	220	21.43
Max Forward Acceleration		32	30	6.25
Max Retro Acceleration		19	18	5.26
Max Transverse Acceleration		19	16	15.79
MaxPitchRate		30	22	26.67
MaxRollRate		100	90	10.00
4 Pips to engines
Maximum Speed		250	200	20.00
Max Boosted Speed		330	280	15.15
Max Pitch Rate	38	27	28.95

Honestly, you need to not tell people what they can and cannot post in this thread....youre not a curator and even the mods dont care whats in a post as long as it doesnt break any of there guidelines...

So yeah, shut it with that attitude please.

 

[SpiralRazor]

many many ppl say python is OP, because of the shield cells.......without shield cells the pythons shields (even the best in game) are EASILY gone in 30 seconds by two vipers with in sum 4 small beams!
so after BOTH nerfs hitting, the python IS rendered worthless in combat because even the poorest pirate players with barely fitted vipers will be able to kill any python easily!
i know it.....only shield cells prevent my solo-viper in killing any python! already had 2 matches against decked out pythons! only shield cells prevented me from dropping their shields! not the fracking "OP" python itself! it takes just SKILL to outmanouver ANY python already! so all the unskilled whiners should just SHUT UP because they dont know how to play at all!

im just glad, i have not bought the skin yet...would have been wasted money

as soon as the crap nerf-patch hits, the python will go back to the seller. damn the 10% loss on the ship.......i will then fly again my viper that made 40 millions in bounties (OP ship) and the same in assassin missions!

i will sit on 120 million then and dont know what to do with it.......

and i will NOT trade anymore.....i lost minimum 20 IQ points since i started it 5 days ago

You realize Chaff is also getting nerfed right??? So you go and take that Viper of yours against that Python and watch his gimbals and turrets cut you to pieces.

 

[crushdepth]

Or would you rather play in a galaxy where everyone has to fly a python otherwise you haven't a hope?

Definitely. I want to see group play and group tactics. Small ships should have to cooperate to take on the big boys. If all the ships are shades of grey its going to be dead boring.

Having some hard targets will make the game interesting and add a lot of life to group battles. Once some serious coop tools are added, anyway.

 

[Shanaeri]

Honestly, you need to not tell people what they can and cannot post in this thread....youre not a curator and even the mods dont care whats in a post as long as it doesnt break any of there guidelines...

So yeah, shut it with that attitude please.

err.. What?

That post of mine was merged into this one by the mods and was a separate thread. Which when I opened it, it was an attempt to help the devs out by getting suggestions of alternatives that might improve the game instead of having them pile through 40 odd pages of arguing.

we know Python is getting changed, that being the case wasn't it a better idea to have a central place where anyone could suggest how it could be adjusted rather than get involved in a toxic argument that serves no constructive purpose? Since someone had to open the post, I did it and it seems the mods merged it into the morass of moaning this thread has become..

oh well..never let an attempt at being constructive get in the way of a good forum fight I guess.

 

[SpiralRazor]

You can say much the same thing just by saying "Lets all try and stay on topic please".

There are already tons of ideas, proven out with good math, that the devs can choose from at this point, going all the way back to the actual beta, not beta 2 as we are apparently in now.

 

[Poseidal]

Definitely. I want to see group play and group tactics. Small ships should have to cooperate to take on the big boys. If all the ships are shades of grey its going to be dead boring.

Having some hard targets will make the game interesting and add a lot of life to group battles. Once some serious coop tools are added, anyway.

The Python isn't even that much bigger than a Cobra or Viper though.

And it isn't mentioned how it also makes the other 'large' ships (Anaconda, Clipper, Dropship) obsolete too.

 

[Dejay]

But the python is different to a cobra. It has much more mass. Iirc the cargo bay on a python is larger than a cobra is. You have more, a bigger, hard points. The python should not out manoeuvre a cobra or viper. The python should not be impervious to all but other pythons.

Yes the python is larger than the cobra but why does it have to mean it's slower? You simply have much much larger and powerful thrusters. It is simply a question force vs mass.

Why "should" a python not keep up with a cobra? Why "should" it be slower but more powerful? This is the "paper-scissor-rock" mentality that has no place here imho. Why do they have to be "equal" so one is more maneuverable and the other is more powerful weapons and in the end the power isn't more powerful? Why? This balancing argument simply makes no sense to me. With the nerf the python simply won't be able to FIRE on a viper anymore. The viper will kill any python with ease as long as you don't use turrents. And frankly turrets are boring.

Create a ship in the price class of a cobra with 2 medium and 1 large hardpoint. Then we can talk balance between them.

 

[Demonicus]

Your post that I have replied to had nothing to do with the discussion of shields. It was about ship speeds.

As for the shields - their reduction is NOT an issue either. Python is still going to have the second best shields and this is definitely NOT game breaking.



What mistake? This is called balancing so that each ship would have it's own place in the game. ED is the game meant to be played for years not days! I have maxed out the Python in less than 1.5 weeks. So what happens if everyone flies the same ship?

I believe that everyone flying the same ship would be called "balanced."

 

[carniak]

Super!

err.. What?

That post of mine was merged into this one by the mods and was a separate thread. Which when I opened it, it was an attempt to help the devs out by getting suggestions of alternatives that might improve the game instead of having them pile through 40 odd pages of arguing.

we know Python is getting changed, that being the case wasn't it a better idea to have a central place where anyone could suggest how it could be adjusted rather than get involved in a toxic argument that serves no constructive purpose? Since someone had to open the post, I did it and it seems the mods merged it into the morass of moaning this thread has become..

oh well..never let an attempt at being constructive get in the way of a good forum fight I guess.

If you look at his post history...

Yea.

Don't take it too personally.

Thank you for the compilation, btw. (Have some rep) I'll still get a Python if only because it reminds me so much of a Tel'Tak. Stick some plasma accelerators on it and... Ah imagination.

 

[DaveHSchiff]

They'll be in the same update probably. The changes to the python is something like -17% to speeds, turn rates and accelerations, -33% to base shield strength roughly. This puts the flight model in a better place for a large fighting based ship and also leaves room for the other fighting ships to come so they can be more manoeuvrable than it. The python still has one of the best hard point placements when it can get its guns to bare on a target and it won't become a sitting duck either.

Translation: you guys at DEV pretty much screwed what was used to be a charming ship... now you rendered it useless...

So here's my little rant:

1. Exploration? No way... Python doesn't have JUMP RANGE ( so let's go with that ugly freaking ASP ) - Yeah, it IS ugly sin
2. Combat? Forget it... you just can't manouver this TRUCK - get a FDL for half price...
3. Trading? You can fit an equally lumbering Type 7 for the half price!

Now really - what the heck you guys have in your mind? Python is a classic ship and you pretty much screwed it up - for ANY purpose...

Congratulations.

 

[Athanos]

I agree with the changes made it was OP my only wish was if they had left the maximum speed alone.. It's silly how slow it is now.

 

[DragoonKnight]

I agree with the changes made it was OP my only wish was if they had left the maximum speed alone.. It's silly how slow it is now.

Thanks to the Nerf, the Python is now useless for everything except trade.
It has a pitch rate that is worse than the T9 and the only ships it can catch are the Anaconda and Corvette. It cant out turn either of them and it cant out gun them. It cant stack SCB anymore. What is the point of a Python anyway?

 

[TigerTen]

YES . . . now we have the SUPER POS THANK YOU - Frontier Developments Plc.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I am still going to buy one. I have never played with the non-modified version, but im sure even after the modifications the ship, for me, will still be a major upgrade.

Don't worry about it, every time something is reduced people go bananas and claim it is now totally useless. We even did this with the Python twice. See how people here claim the Python was so awesome before the latest change? Go back 9 months or so and you'll see people claim this awesome Python was 'totally useless' after the first nerf. I got a post-nerf Python + basic upgrades for 80m. It destroys everything in PvE. Its not a super PvP ship, but its still great for PvE, trading, mining and jack-of-all trades. If you have the Imperial rank required, the Clipper is a great alternative. If you don't, there is no alternative multi-role in its priceclass until you can afford a 'cheap' 200-250 million Conda.

 

[DragoonKnight]

I am not here long enough to have seen the pre-nerf Python. All I know is that I tried really hard to like the Python, outfitted it with A thrusters and kept weight to a minimum, tried different weapons and really gave it a chance, and it still could barely get out of its own way. It is the only ship that I could not wait to sell. With the SCB nerfs in 2.0, it is weakened even further as one of the Python's strengths was that it could take a lot of SCBs into combat and keep recharging its shields as needed.
If you would like me to go by the numbers, I can do that as well and "prove" that the Python is a lumbering beast.

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

Im dumb

I did some very rudimentary tests the last couple of days with my python, with the goal in mind to test the effect of the different thruster modules on my Python. Partly so I could see just how big an effect an upgraded module has, and also so I can get an idea of how big a change will be made once the Python maneuverability is adjusted.

Are you saying FD is changing the maneuverability, or did you mean the thrusters would? And if the first option how and when and source?

My bad didn't read the year i thought the python was about to get nerfed again don't know why this thread is at the top of the list