Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

Leper Messiah

Leper Messiah
galahad2069 said:
The PF think otherwise, apparently.

Given how easy it is to avoid/survive ganks, they might have a point tbh. :)
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The PF is cleary the worst organisation in the history of humanity!!! Even the SS probably didn't tolerate them killing each other, apart from treachery and betrayal I presume...which leads me back to how stupid the PF is in Elite!!

from a wiki lore page so don't know how accurate but:

The Pilots Federation’s zero tolerance policy of dishonourable behaviour amongst its members is enforced by a system of bounties automatically placed on the heads of transgressors.

So the PF isn't a shady group with "gangland" style rules, so someone who kills other PF members dishonourably (which is 99% of gankers/greifers ((PP exempt of course.)) shold be kicked out of the PF IMO.

If it was easy there would be no complaints.
 

Leper Messiah

Leper Messiah
Rubbernuke said:
G5 sarcasm with double bracing? Its open and anything is possible and you should have at least one metric of speed, shield or offense always on tap.

Its called being prepared. You know ahead of time when things will be hard- engineer bases, capitals, Shin Dez.

Its 10 seconds to kill someone, which means in high sec regardless you have to live 10 seconds to even start thinking about escape.

Its why personal responsibility is so important because other players are the danger regardless of place.

Well it is- PvE in solo lulls you into bad habits because you never see the really nasty weapons or tactics used. People panic and fly away in straight lines, with ships ill equipped to handle player killing weapons like PA which use absolute damage (while players often go for resistance builds).

In the end Open is not about combat- its you knowing how to avoid combat and choosing when to engage or escape. If everyone knew how to evade, griefers would be starved of cheap kills and the problem ends- what some suggest is that the game is put into ever convoluted knots to protect people when the tools exist right now.
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1) no sarcasm, your assumption that it's always naive people or children or any other denigrating insult towards a playstyle differing to yours says more than I ever could. Maybe if you stopped seeing other players in such a negative light you'd think different?

2) Shin Dez should NOT be hard, it's only hard because of gankers and greifers. It's hard and it makes NO sense, FD may as well tear up ALL lore and just make the game Battle Royale in space!!

3) that just makes it hard at that time and it probably serves as a challenge to the combat+criminal focused players, I'm on about meaningful long term repurcussions that make sense.

4) That personal responsibility goes both ways, be responsible for your actions and don't complain about peoples reactions to your actions.

5) So people can't play "their way" in open? So FD marketting is lying through it's teeth?

6) "avoiding combat" is still about combat!!

Oh well my stay at Hotel california is at an end, probably see you next time and we'll do this again and get nowhere again! LOL!
 

galahad2069

G
Sanderling said:
If the only thing lacking in the Hauler example is motivation; then the challenge lies in developing the motivation to do it. This is why you can't do it.
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No, that's why he won't do it.

While I was reading your post, I was listening to a guitar cover of Slash's Anastasia performed by a young lady. She was doing an awesome job for all I can tell.

Your post made me wonder what she would say if I asked her to pick the A string 5000 times (the number of notes in that song - wild guess). Maybe she'd say no, but would it mean that she cannot do it? Well, I doubt it. :)
 

Vetinari

V
What would the consequences be if they got kicked out of PF? Would they ever be allowed a 2nd chance? In a world of indestructible FCs?

Leper Messiah said:
Open's flaw is that many can't play how they want, when that's the game biggest marketing hook (bigger than danger and combat IMO). Telling people how they have to play or build their ship to survive in open makes a mockery of the games "sandbox" IMO.
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You can fly and play how you want, the open secret is if you do you have to not care if or how you lose your ship is all. Explo & Trader builds are fine if you don't care about getting blown up and have not much to lose or it doesnt matter. Gankers dont care or if they do they retreat to Solo and only come into Open with battle ready PVP OP ships. A lot of people dont retreat into solo but just dont care either way, we care more about someone trying to dictate what we do how we should fly and in particular how we should play our game to accomodate theirs including changing our builds to 'survive' this 'dystopian nightmare'.

None of this is to say we dont immerse ourselves in the game and gankers still are the reminder we are in the RW not in space but theyre not bothersome enough to make me change the game I play or the fun I have. Apparently theyre more scared of Open than I am because they go mat grinding and mining etc in Solo. I and a lot of people dont, we just dont think it means anything to say we play in Open as we do just treat it as a game.
 

TiberiusDuval

T
Considering ships and their builds, one thing I would very much like would be ability to say land somewhere, make little bookmark for yourself and drop some modules there. Now how it would serve you? Lets say you are an explorer, and your real problem is really in two parts of your trek. At start near civilisation though getting blasted there is mild inconvenience. And on return leg when you have all that juicy data. Most of gank survival modules are dead weight during your time in black. Now if I can drop some of that stuff to stash location known only by me, I could have best of both worlds. Lean jump machine, and capable gank evader. Technically you could even make player caches foundable by other players, but finding them should be needle in haystack....
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Leper Messiah said:
1) no sarcasm, your assumption that it's always naive people or children or any other denigrating insult towards a playstyle differing to yours says more than I ever could. Maybe if you stopped seeing other players in such a negative light you'd think different?
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In a mode with no rules you expect them. Thats the definition of stupid. This consideration (as pointed out in the advertising blurb) overrides all other considerations:

stuff.jpg


For those who's eyesight at 70 is impaired or focal length is not yet developed at 7, please digest this part:

1597671915179.png


Your 'playstyle' is a distraction from actual minute to minute survival. Ignore this simple premise and you wind up dead.

2) Shin Dez should NOT be hard, it's only hard because of gankers and greifers. It's hard and it makes NO sense, FD may as well tear up ALL lore and just make the game Battle Royale in space!!
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Its a hub that offers all ships, an engineer, is opened up when you reach Elite- thats three alarm bells already.

3) that just makes it hard at that time and it probably serves as a challenge to the combat+criminal focused players, I'm on about meaningful long term repurcussions that make sense.
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Forget about any security providing any security if you fly ships that are destroyed in seconds. Any protection requires a ship to be built to withstand at least a minute of combat, or know how to evade / select HW destination.

4) That personal responsibility goes both ways, be responsible for your actions and don't complain about peoples reactions to your actions.
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Really? If most people could evade then there would be no problem. People instead whine about "why me?" when they need to strategize better. Walking into a known dangerous area in a slow, tinfoil ship is not good strategy.

5) So people can't play "their way" in open? So FD marketting is lying through it's teeth?
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You can play how you like, however you have to be prepared. Its not a hard concept to master unless you are willfully ignorant of the risks.

6) "avoiding combat" is still about combat!!

Oh well my stay at Hotel california is at an end, probably see you next time and we'll do this again and get nowhere again! LOL!
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Whats so hard to understand? The advertising says as much, so why are you suggesting its wrong? Avoid combat by either going somewhere else, having a ship that can run, or use another mode. Avoiding combat doers not mean you have to go around in a combat ship.
 

Riverside

Riverside
TiberiusDuval said:
Considering ships and their builds, one thing I would very much like would be ability to say land somewhere, make little bookmark for yourself and drop some modules there. Now how it would serve you? Lets say you are an explorer, and your real problem is really in two parts of your trek. At start near civilisation though getting blasted there is mild inconvenience. And on return leg when you have all that juicy data. Most of gank survival modules are dead weight during your time in black. Now if I can drop some of that stuff to stash location known only by me, I could have best of both worlds. Lean jump machine, and capable gank evader. Technically you could even make player caches foundable by other players, but finding them should be needle in haystack....
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You can just switch ships, leave your explorer parked in a quiet (populated) system & use a more survivable build of ship to sell the data. The data stays with you, not the ship.
 

Vetinari

V
TiberiusDuval said:
Considering ships and their builds, one thing I would very much like would be ability to say land somewhere, make little bookmark for yourself and drop some modules there. Now how it would serve you? Lets say you are an explorer, and your real problem is really in two parts of your trek. At start near civilisation though getting blasted there is mild inconvenience. And on return leg when you have all that juicy data. Most of gank survival modules are dead weight during your time in black. Now if I can drop some of that stuff to stash location known only by me, I could have best of both worlds. Lean jump machine, and capable gank evader. Technically you could even make player caches foundable by other players, but finding them should be needle in haystack....
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Just dock at an outer station and call the modules over. You'll almost certainly only need to worry about NPC Pirates (who wont open fire if you dont have cargo, escape pods!). If you know which way youre going, stop in on the way out and order them then.

Or fly a slightly upgraded ship in Open and swop the modules out at last station before leaving, 1st station upon arrival back.

I used an Anarchy on the outskirts a few times. That way I could kill time and NPCs if waiting for any modules or if just trigger happy after all that exploring.
 

Vetinari

V
You need a Fleet Carrier, all dangers gone with the press of a button. Materialise LS away from your desired station.

Normally you get a few NPCs a few systems out is all but they dont KOS without warning or reason and are easy to escape, its just more fun because you've probably forgotten what to do after all that time away. Even if you do everything wrong they still wont open fire. Practice with these NPCs a few systems out and just remember which button does which (silent running and heatsinks for me, always turning SR on and cant work out how I did it or how to turn it back off while the ship slowly cooks and fizzles). Then its just usual ABC, its just getting it back into the memory that makes it feel riskier than before.
 

TiberiusDuval

T
Vetinari said:
You need a Fleet Carrier, all dangers gone with the press of a button. Materialise LS away from your desired station.

Normally you get a few NPCs a few systems out is all but they dont KOS without warning or reason and are easy to escape, its just more fun because you've probably forgotten what to do after all that time away. Even if you do everything wrong they still wont open fire. Practice with these NPCs a few systems out and just remember which button does which (silent running and heatsinks for me, always turning SR on and cant work out how I did it or how to turn it back off while the ship slowly cooks and fizzles). Then its just usual ABC, its just getting it back into the memory that makes it feel riskier than before.
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I have silent running mapped so that it is nearly guaranteed that I accidentally hit it in when fidling with distributor settings from joystick :D
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
TiberiusDuval said:
I have silent running mapped so that it is nearly guaranteed that I accidentally hit it in when fidling with distributor settings from joystick :D
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My X56 Throttle has quite a few 'useful' settings mapped... If I forget and plug it into a USB2 port by accident I can be flying, push throttle forward and speed up, go silent running, try to enter supercruise and open the galaxy map all at once... It can be a little embarrasing doing so when evading a wing of 'enemies'... Don't ask how I know this :ROFLMAO:
 

Deleted member 192138

D
Sanderling said:
A whole lot of waffle, right there. And still failing to understand the basic point that: challenge is only ever personal. You seem to be confusing what you think about your own ideas, your own measures, your own values and your own perceptions of the game mechanics with some kind of 'fact' around any of it. None of that's actually relevant. The " It presents the greatest challenge to your completion of any gameplay loop because it is the most likely to result in your ship's destruction" is one of the most hilariously silly things I've ever read.

I get that you might think you're 'dismantling criticisms' and imagine I'm keeping score in some weird debating society, but as you pointed out (but probably missed the point of) - it's a forum, context is important - and this is a thread that asked for views from people who don't PvP/Gank about what they get out of open.

If, in response to their answers - you blather on and try to devalue things they think are challenging as just 'personal', or stuff anybody could do, etc - and go on about how they can only experience real, objective, non-personal challenge (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) by following your suggestions....yup....that's your hubris at play, right there.

I'll take one last stab at trying to help you see this, although I realise it's probably futile.

If the only thing lacking in the Hauler example is motivation; then the challenge lies in developing the motivation to do it. This is why you can't do it. For those who do - they've done something you couldn't. They win the galactic circumnavigation achieve you can't. The fact that there are haulers, and a galaxy, and it's possible mean that this challenge is equally there - by design.

Anyone can't do it, just for different reasons other than the ones you put so much stock in. It might not require what you term knowledge or skill, but it demands other things.
The things you think are important are as irrelevant to that long-distance traveller as their challenge is to you. Whether that's meaningful to you is irrelevant - their sense of challenge is equal to yours, and their sense of achievement if they do it equally so. I'm not devaluing the challenge of PvP by saying so. Different strokes for different folks.

I'm not actually trying to 'compete' with you here in arguments. It's good you're off to bed really. That way you can stop making yourself look any more of a misguided blowhard :)
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A more condensed summation of Sanderling's point could be:
Combat isn't a challenge if you do something else instead.
 
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