Question I think only a dev can answer: Stereo depth of the rift?

drkaii

drkaii
Hi,

I've seen the devs talking in the forums so I feel confident they'd read this. Whether they can legally answer is another question but let's go:

Has the game been designed with limited depth? How far do the eyes diverge to see the "infinite distance"? Is it reduced? I would say that it seems so...just. It's very difficult to tell with two completely separate screens in use, but there are times where everything seems a little "condensed" in my vision. Best example is in the cobra, looking at the chair on my right, it somehow feels a little off. I little small and squashed.

Is it possible to change this and update the depth to my IPD? Is that what the IPD setting in the config file actually does? Actually I'm going to have a fiddle now, but if we could get a bit more info on this, that'd be great.
 

Jonathan E

Jonathan E
I run ED with the IPD set to 55 and everything looks more spacious. Also, try changing your height. No need to edit files, just change it in the oculus utility.
 

rennarda

R
I think anything outside the canopy window is rendered 'flat' - for instance, there's no perception of 'depth' to the hyperspace tunnel, and station interiors aren't really rendered differently to each eye. I really hope there's a way to improve this experience...
 

777Driver

777Driver
rennarda said:
I think anything outside the canopy window is rendered 'flat' - for instance, there's no perception of 'depth' to the hyperspace tunnel, and station interiors aren't really rendered differently to each eye. I really hope there's a way to improve this experience...
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IPD is incredibly important in the DK2, this is why I tell people that a demo of the rift is not enough, you have to spend a while finding the right IPD. I was flying with an IPD of 67.5 for over a month, looked perfect to me, one day I decided to make a small change to 66.5. mm That is the prefect setting for me.

At Drkaii - IPD in the game config does nothing since release, you have to adjust it through the Oculus config utility.

I'm going to try Hadrons 55 setting just to see what he is viewing. All I can say is slightly lowering that number for me made a big difference.

EDIT - @ Hadron, thanks dude, will keep your settings.
 
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drkaii

drkaii
Hadron42 said:
I run ED with the IPD set to 55 and everything looks more spacious. Also, try changing your height. No need to edit files, just change it in the oculus utility.
Click to expand...

I have tried that but didn't notice a difference. Will try again.

rennarda said:
I think anything outside the canopy window is rendered 'flat' - for instance, there's no perception of 'depth' to the hyperspace tunnel, and station interiors aren't really rendered differently to each eye. I really hope there's a way to improve this experience...
Click to expand...

It isn't true. I've tested it. Go to an outpost and get as close as possible to an antenna. You'll see parallax on it quite easily.

Thebadmf said:
Pretty sure only 25 or so meters in front of the eye that is in 3d which I hope changes for CV1.
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That makes sense (is that the "stereo focal distance" setting in the Settings.xml maybe? Set to 25 or 35), as beyond that the parallax would be less than a pixel. Heck, even 10m it's almost impossible to tell. Question is, is it then already at "infinite depth"? My eyes having to diverge completely?

Re small and squashed the vid in this thread seems applicable http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2k2ge4/matching_world_scale_in_the_dk2/
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll check the vid and that long and complicated thread over the weekend when I have time. Really appreciate you finding that for me, nice one.

Still, a dev could end this entire discussion in one sentence. Where are you Mr. Dev?
 

mickeeie mouse

Banned
M
Hadron42 said:
Makes a surprising difference, doesn't it? My cobra seems more spacious, and the side displays don't feel like they are crammed up against you.
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yep, been onto this for a few weeks now, i also like to go smaller when i fly the viper. 70.0 for viper, 55 for cobra, although iv upped it slightly to 58 so i dont feel like the jolly green giant hahahaaa

MM

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Hadron42 said:
Makes a surprising difference, doesn't it? My cobra seems more spacious, and the side displays don't feel like they are crammed up against you.
Click to expand...

yep, been onto this for a few weeks now, i also like to go smaller when i fly the viper. 70.0 for viper, 55 for cobra, although iv upped it slightly to 58 so i dont feel like the jolly green giant hahahaaa

MM
 

Jonathan E

Jonathan E
drkaii said:
Why does it make a difference for you guys and not me...what am I doing wrong? :(
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What are you flying at the moment, it is more noticeable in the larger cockpit craft. also, create two profiles in the rift util, set one at 75 and one at 55 and go between the two and you should see a difference... in my cobra it looks slightly wider @55 and feels more roomy.
 

Soda Popinski

Soda Popinski

Khaldur

K
rennarda said:
I think anything outside the canopy window is rendered 'flat' - for instance, there's no perception of 'depth' to the hyperspace tunnel, and station interiors aren't really rendered differently to each eye. I really hope there's a way to improve this experience...
Click to expand...

I read that a lot in these forums, but it's definitely not matching my own experience. I have a very notable perception of depth outside of the cockpit window, e.g in the hyperspace tunnel, seeing other spaceships flying inside stations and in many other situations. Of course not for distant objects but that's how it is in real life, too.

I am also with drkali in that changing the IPD value doesn't change anything regarding scale or perception of distance for me. The only effect I notice is that it gets more uncomforable at wrong settings and at values that deviate extremely from my measured value I get double vision. Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing: I am referring to the IPS setting in the Oculus Rift config tool. I have never touched any IPD settings in the game's config files.
 

drkaii

drkaii
Hadron42 said:
What are you flying at the moment, it is more noticeable in the larger cockpit craft. also, create two profiles in the rift util, set one at 75 and one at 55 and go between the two and you should see a difference... in my cobra it looks slightly wider @55 and feels more roomy.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I've done this. I've done it with a lot of concentration and effort and fiddling and going between both again and again...it honestly makes no difference :(

Oh and technically, turing the IPD down should in fact make things seems closer. People with narrower eyes have to diverge them less to look along parallel lines. So this all sounds a bit placebo to me,...
 
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Jonathan E

Jonathan E
I've gone back and tried it on someone who doesn't play games in a blind test - they didn't even know what I was going to change - and they can see the difference. Admittedly it's not huge, but you can see the difference in screenshots. I'll do a better set and post them at the weekend.
 

azl

A
rennarda said:
I think anything outside the canopy window is rendered 'flat' - for instance, there's no perception of 'depth' to the hyperspace tunnel, and station interiors aren't really rendered differently to each eye. I really hope there's a way to improve this experience...
Click to expand...

I think part of the problem is the environment we are seeing is mostly imaginary, so our sense of scale is wrong.

The objects passing by in hyperspace and even the majority of the structures inside a space station are so very far away that we should not expect to perceive depth simply by looking at them. Imagine looking at the goalpost from the opposite end of a (American) football field, you have no stereo perspective. It's reasonable to assume that most structures in a spaceport are far enough away to appear "flat". Add to this the low resolution of the Rift, and your ability to detect stereo differences is reduced significantly. It's not a problem with the simulator.

I have a hard time sensing the true size of my ship, since I often picture it being more of a jet fighter-sized craft than the space barge that it is. This causes me to expect the landing pads and mailslots to be much smaller than they are.

Another example: flying in an airplane. Looking out the window during takeoff or landing, we have no stereo perception of objects just off the runway. For the most part, it's a flat world out there. We use the movement of the aircraft or our head to determine the distance of something we're looking at by observing how its position changes in relation to its surroundings (parallax). If you've ever been in in the cockpit of a large airliner (747, etc.), you would notice that you have a poor ability to perceive distance using your eyes alone.

The solution to enhance the perception of distance and depth (to me) is parallax. For example, when supercruising past a star, all I see is a big flat colored circle. However, if there are other objects nearby (planet, asteroids, ships), the transit of those objects in relation to the star in the background gives me a deep sense of my position and movement through space.

The same thing happens in a large orbital station: The walls are flat, and there's not a lot going on until you get down close to landing. It's pretty static until another ship flies in and I suddenly establish that sense of perspective. At that point it's easy to see how truly large the spaceport is and my brain understands that the walls look flat because they are actually very far away.

Perhaps adding more space debris or simply increasing the density of objects in our mid-range surroundings will help to improve the feeling of 3D. Maybe adding some men working on the landing pads, or ground equipment driving around (closer to the pads).

In short, the only objects you should be perceiving in stereo/3D are your cockpit structure and the few parts of your ship that you can see outside your cockpit. In rare cases, you may have a stereo perspective of space station equipment or another ship, but you would have to be just a few meters away to sense that distance using your eyes.
 

azl

A
I should add that I altered my IPD in the Oculus config utility from 63.5 to 55, and it did feel more "right". It's totally subjective, and maybe imaginary, but I'm keeping it for now. Perhaps E:D is just a little conservative when it comes to translating the Oculus IPD value, and that could be tweaked in a future release.
 

drkaii

drkaii
Hadron42 said:
I've gone back and tried it on someone who doesn't play games in a blind test - they didn't even know what I was going to change - and they can see the difference. Admittedly it's not huge, but you can see the difference in screenshots. I'll do a better set and post them at the weekend.
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cool thanks
 

Thebadmf

Thebadmf
Something is most definitely off. I've finally got an Anaconda, every station approach feels like I'm looking down a gold club at a ball on the end! Going into the letterbox feels like threading a needle vs, steering a tanker through a narrow corridor... funnfy thing is as the nose is around halfway into the passage, the sense of scale returns. It's most definitely the stereo render distance.

I've not been getting this on the FdL so I don't think it's solely the obscured view of the Conda.
 

Milomaine

Milomaine
azl said:
I should add that I altered my IPD in the Oculus config utility from 63.5 to 55, and it did feel more "right". It's totally subjective, and maybe imaginary, but I'm keeping it for now. Perhaps E:D is just a little conservative when it comes to translating the Oculus IPD value, and that could be tweaked in a future release.
Click to expand...

This is awesome!, I changed mine from 65.5 to 55 and now in the Rift I have a normal size body (instead of a tiny one)
 
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