Ranking the areas still requiring animals
- Thread starter yoav_r
- Start date
I don’t know, I think the Scottish Highland Cow is perfect representation for Scotland. But yeah outside of that I don’t know about the rest. The alpaca is like a llama, and honestly can’t bump up the representation any better.
With the highland cow + red deer and Scotland is extremely well represented. The only missing things is regional niche animals like Shetland pony, Scottish wildcat, western capercaillie etc but these don't represent Scotland on a broad range unlike the cow and deer cover almost the entire country.
Yeah you can make an argument for some very iconic ones.
But for the most part a more or less random breed of donkey doesnt do anything really in terms of NA representation, same with most of the other ones
I would say that the European wildcat is the essential animal missing for Europe. Without one of the red squirrel or European wildcat, Europe isn’t blue in my opinion. The western capercaillie or great bustard would be great too.
Also, the Scottish wildcat is just a population not subspecies of wildcat.
Yeah I agree with that, if looking at the European wildcat or Capercaillie as the whole range, these could definitely prevent Europe from moving into the blue. I was maybe being a little narrow minded into Scottish representation specifically.
And yes I know the wildcat is just a population, just a natural way of saying it having been brought up learning about the "highland tiger".
I love it when people actually check the criteria. I think in this case it's complicated because wether or not you could use the new domestics in a European zoo is up to personal opinion.
I wouldn't like to do a Brexit because it would break the categories, but I'd like to hear more opinions before we decide what should be done.
I think they count for diversity. Not sure on if Europe should go blue or not yet though. I mean the Alpaca would be a good representative for SA, if we didn't already have the Llama so it does nothing.
Honestly surprised we didn't get any African rep. Luke why not Pygmy goat or guineafowl or something.
Honestly surprised we didn't get any African rep. Luke why not Pygmy goat or guineafowl or something.
Honestly domestics are a slippery slope, because many parts of the world have iconic breeds. Being a zoo game, the question is how much does each domestic really boost a region?
I don’t know. Like I stated the highland cow is so intertwined with the UK and Scotland I think it should count. But that is a slippery slope. Should the US be bumped down because we don’t have the Texas longhorn cattle, American painted horse, or Rhode Island Red? No. Likewise, the chicken does add another bird for the UK. Which makes for two birds “native” to the region in Planet Zoo.
I’ll also say, while the specific breeds are almost all UK animals, they are generic enough I can basically count them for anywhere. With the exception of incredibly niche breeds, like the Highland Cow, Texas longhorn, Poitou Donkey, etc.
I’ll say if the llama and the camel count, then the highland cow counts. But like I said, the rest of the animals are generic enough to count for anywhere. Also, we aren’t gonna get more domestics outside of mods so considering “iconic breeds” for criteria would drop everywhere into the red like if we counted flying birds.
I don’t know. Like I stated the highland cow is so intertwined with the UK and Scotland I think it should count. But that is a slippery slope. Should the US be bumped down because we don’t have the Texas longhorn cattle, American painted horse, or Rhode Island Red? No. Likewise, the chicken does add another bird for the UK. Which makes for two birds “native” to the region in Planet Zoo.
I’ll also say, while the specific breeds are almost all UK animals, they are generic enough I can basically count them for anywhere. With the exception of incredibly niche breeds, like the Highland Cow, Texas longhorn, Poitou Donkey, etc.
I’ll say if the llama and the camel count, then the highland cow counts. But like I said, the rest of the animals are generic enough to count for anywhere. Also, we aren’t gonna get more domestics outside of mods so considering “iconic breeds” for criteria would drop everywhere into the red like if we counted flying birds.
My take is: domestics don't make or break updating a part of the world. Those same breeds can technically also be found in other parts of the world.
So, we shouldn't really include domestic animals as fleshing out certain areas. If anything, I'd say add the icons, but don't change the colors
So, we shouldn't really include domestic animals as fleshing out certain areas. If anything, I'd say add the icons, but don't change the colors
I thought temperate Europe could have gone blue after the Eurasia pack.
- Europe already has two birds (3 counting the chicken), which is more than both Americas put together. I would welcome more European birds, especially the popular pelican and wide-ranging mallard. However, I don't think birds are keeping it green, or nowhere would be blue. The general absence of birds is a separate issue.
- It's a bit lacking in small critters (only kind of needs 1, max 2, more would just be nice), but none of the options I see crack the top fifty of either wishlist despite many European participants. Some are nice options, and others are too small for me to see as realistic. If we get a worldwide finale, I'd imagine it would come with a critter. Europe already has 4 small carnivores, the red fox, wolverine, badger, and lynx. Temperate NA also has the wolverine and red fox, but it also has the raccoon, skunk, and beaver. Maybe the armadillo counts, but it's mostly grasslands/subtropical. Our temperate zones also don't have anything like a fallow deer, red deer, or wild boar. There are definitely some good options for another European critter, but I'm not sure if the difference is enough to keep it green.
- It's only missing
43 wild ungulates: themusk ox,chamois, roe deer, and mouflon.I'd love a musk ox for the tundra, butI don't think the others are necessary. - Maybe an EBB for a large carnivore would be good, but it's already included twice at the species level and once within the same realm. I wish it was in the base game, or we'd gotten a generic brown bear.
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The difficulty i see with counting domestics as regional rep is that there is alot of variation among them regarding "range".
Something the sussex chicken is so commonly kept all around the world that i cant really see it as an english animal.
Like is a domestic guinea pig still a south american animal really? Or would labradors be a canadian rep?
Does the alpine goat count as european or american or both?
Imo the whole thing is just really messy and i think its better to just count domestics as their own thing.
Plus they dont actually contribute to a regions biodiversity since they arent really a natural part of the region and more often than not brought there by humans.
Thats my take on it anyways.
Something the sussex chicken is so commonly kept all around the world that i cant really see it as an english animal.
Like is a domestic guinea pig still a south american animal really? Or would labradors be a canadian rep?
Does the alpine goat count as european or american or both?
Imo the whole thing is just really messy and i think its better to just count domestics as their own thing.
Plus they dont actually contribute to a regions biodiversity since they arent really a natural part of the region and more often than not brought there by humans.
Thats my take on it anyways.
In my opinion, domesticated species should count as introduced species. Especially since with domesticated species, some of the wild versions were never native to the places they are kept. For examples chickens are definitely not from Sussex and never were. In fact the only animals were the range happens to occur are with Tamworth (wild boar is already in game) and Highland cattle (with the auroch extinct). Perhaps there is a case for the highland coo to be a proxy for aurochs but that isn’t necessarily correct either…
Musk ox ironically is listed as invasive species in Norway. This is by no mean EU animal.
On top of that entire population cant survive on its own and needs to be artificaly kept.
Thanks!
That being said they were formerly native to Europe about 10,000 years ago.
I'm also against Brexit on the map.
Personally, the idea of bumping to blue temperate Europe because of chickens and pigs is not really appealing to me.
Maybe this time would be better just to leave it as it is.
Personally, the idea of bumping to blue temperate Europe because of chickens and pigs is not really appealing to me.
Maybe this time would be better just to leave it as it is.
The wolverine isn't found in temperate Europe. Imo the lynx is Europe's "big carnivore" representant, not a small carnivore, comparable to say NA's cougar. (NA also got more of those since it got the grizzli, while Europe doesn't have its bear subspecies). The red fox is nice but it isn't particularly European, it's found in most of NA and virtually all of Eurasia (even in some parts of North Africa).
So it leaves us with the badger, which is good, but there's a lot of other possible options for a smaller critters : a marmot, a hare, a hedgehog, a wildcat, a polecat, a marten, a stoat, a mink... The eurasian otter or the golden jackal too (although both are also found in most of asia). Most of those also have non-european options for representation, but in most cases the european species is the most iconic, so it would be good to have one or two of these. Sure they're not high on the wishlist, but I don't think wishlists are about which regions are correctly represented or need more representation compared to their biodiversity.
Also Temperate NA has the moose and the pronghorn which are definitely red deer/fallow deer equivalent. If we compare in actual species number, I'd say both areas have similar biodiversity and Temperate NA has 13 species to Temperate Europe's 10, pre-domestics.