re: Statement on Harassment

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[Diplomacy] Carnegie

[Diplomacy] Carnegie
Ted Striker said:
My fear is this latest statement could be the start of silencing criticism of the expansion. It could start with ending abusive statements but not end there.
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Firstly, if FDev wanted to 'silence criticism of the expansion' they'd just DO that. They don't have to fart around make statements about abuse in order to justify it. It's their forum and they acn arbitrarily bad whoever they want.

Secondly, it's a bit late to silence the criticism, given how it's already all over Steam, Reddit, the gaming press and for all I know Mumsnet.

In summary, the forum isn't turning into Soviet Russia and there are no black helicopters outside your house.
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
[Diplomacy] Carnegie said:
Firstly, if FDev wanted to 'silence criticism of the expansion' they'd just DO that. They don't have to fart around make statements about abuse in order to justify it. It's their forum and they acn arbitrarily bad whoever they want.

Secondly, it's a bit late to silence the criticism, given how it's already all over Steam, Reddit, the gaming press and for all I know Mumsnet.

In summary, the forum isn't turning into Soviet Russia and there are no black helicopters outside your house.
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Unless someone talks about Raxxla.
 

Ted Striker

Ted Striker
[Diplomacy] Carnegie said:
Firstly, if FDev wanted to 'silence criticism of the expansion' they'd just DO that. They don't have to fart around make statements about abuse in order to justify it. It's their forum and they acn arbitrarily bad whoever they want.

Secondly, it's a bit late to silence the criticism, given how it's already all over Steam, Reddit, the gaming press and for all I know Mumsnet.

In summary, the forum isn't turning into Soviet Russia and there are no black helicopters outside your house.
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I didn't say it was happening, I said I feared it might.

Because I've seen it happen elsewhere. Game forums aren't happy democracies with freedom of speech. I've seen companies silence criticism on their own forums, I've seen them tag youtube videos as copyright to silence them, I've seen them try to push criticism down with a flood of fake positive reviews...it happens.

So long as it doesn't come to any of that I'm happy.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Ted Striker said:
"You're a liar" isn't abuse. It may be more rude than wording it another way but it's not abuse. If it was something like "You're a liar, go play in traffic" or something like that then yeah, issue a warning. Not that I agree with making a statement like that, but banning people for it? That's just a bit excessive.

My fear is this latest statement could be the start of silencing criticism of the expansion. It could start with ending abusive statements but not end there, if you know what I mean. Criticism of a game is bad for business and I've seen the silencing of criticism -- legitimate criticism -- plenty of times elsewhere.
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I think some people confuse lying with predictions that turn out to be wrong. Lying implies there was a conscious intent to mislead (by either the individual or the company they represent but not the individual if they were fed deliberately false information).
 

[Diplomacy] Carnegie

[Diplomacy] Carnegie
Ted Striker said:
I didn't say it was happening, I said I feared it might.

Because I've seen it happen elsewhere. Game forums aren't happy democracies with freedom of speech. I've seen companies silence criticism on their own forums, I've seen them tag youtube videos as copyright to silence them, I've seen them try to push criticism down with a flood of fake positive reviews...it happens.

So long as it doesn't come to any of that I'm happy.
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You can't stop it, so learn to stop worrying and love the bomb 😁
 

The Roofus

The Roofus
[Diplomacy] Carnegie said:
In summary, the forum isn't turning into Soviet Russia and there are no black helicopters outside your house.
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Lies! Don't believe it!

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Ydiss

Ydiss
Northpin said:
Wrong.
Ian Phillips was so kind to give a clarification.
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Sorry, yes you're right; it's a change to the rules. I wrote that badly and so what I said wasn't factually correct. I'll go edit it now.

I meant the fact that the act itself (being abusive) was already covered by the rules. As in, it's not like it was tolerated and now it suddenly isn't. The way it's handled has changed and I thought that was clear from Arf's post. That said, if all the OP and you wanted was clarification on that, you got it. We've since had the offshoot discussion that no one apparently knows what being abusive constitutes, several years after they've been using the forums with those same rules being present.

I think it's disingenuous to question that now. Just because, suddenly, it's a direct ban. I'd have thought being decent to others was motivation enough to learn how that can be achieved without the need to use Arf's post as the catalyst for this sudden desire for that knowledge. If the forum rules aren't clear, by all means let's get a big list of all the possible things someone could possible do to be abusive, if someone needs it (not that it could ever possibly cover all potential examples and so will always have the caveat that you need to just be mature). But why now?

Just not buying it as genuine, sorry.

The fact this change in the rules was deemed necessary is sad. Do you not agree?
 
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Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
CMDR Karrde Sun said:
The other odd curiosity was how the statement didn't extend to players being absusive towards other players. I would sincerely hope the moderators are considering doing so even though that behaviour is not a concern to the issue.....
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Does this actually mean "active players", or just folk who post having played at some time in the past, or maybe never played at all, but might, or might not, some day?
There is a reasonable number of posters who do not play, for whatever reason 🤷‍♂️
Kaocraft said:
If someone continually tells lies, you can maybe call the lie a lie, but you can't call them a liar, is what I got from this.
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I am a liar, I never, ever, tell the truth...
 

Ted Striker

Ted Striker
Riverside said:
I think some people confuse lying with predictions that turn out to be wrong. Lying implies there was a conscious intent to mislead (by either the individual or the company they represent but not the individual if they were fed deliberately false information).
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Oh you mean nonsense like telling a dev something like "You said the patch fix would happen on June 7 and it didn't happen. You're a liar."

That's infuriating.
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
Riverside said:
I think some people confuse lying with predictions that turn out to be wrong. Lying implies there was a conscious intent to mislead (by either the individual or the company they represent but not the individual if they were fed deliberately false information).
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I'm pretty sure Fdev have never actually lied outright. I know they've let people down (including me) when they've said something that didn't turn out to happen or their perception of it wasn't what I expected - prime candidate for me was the recommended specs devable for EDO, which I feel was very, very misleading; it wasn't a lie though, it was just incorrect. Failing to meet a promise isn't lying either (and I know that'll upset some here who have been promised dev attention on Powerplay but never got it).

Although I am not sure why we're now so focused on someone calling someone a liar... I am certain that Arf wasn't addressing that as an example and most of the cases in question were a lot more severe than that.
 
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