Real trade mechanic or bring exploits back

[BL1P]

It does make you wonder doesn't it.
Why do Frontier let the game be exploited ?
Are there plans to crash the games economy and reduce everyone down to zero credits due to a Galactic War or some other lore related thing ?
Will the fed and imp and alliance recall all large ships to fund a Galactic war or this other lore related thing ?
Or do they just not care about Elite anymore ?

I cannot see why Frontier would tolerate players to exploit the Ranks and Credits of this game so blatantly, without there being something else going on, that we dont know about.
Its so detrimental to the image of a game if all players and prospective customers see, is social media pointing out how the Games Company and designers do nothing about all the many exploits and exploiters.
Yes yes, they do eventually "patch" (not remove or fix) an existing exploit but normally its 6 months to 1 year after the exploit has been first reported and abused.

Anyway
Makes me wonder.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I think the most amusing aspect of the argument that crops up when player-player money trading gets brought up is the "zomg! credit sellers will ruin the game!" quips.

Just once, just one time, I would like to have it explained. Please, for the love of god, explain how credit sellers (gold sellers) in this game with it's fixed economy and fixed prices that players can't actively influence (outside of how much of a commodity is available in any given BGS state) are going to ruin this game. It's the most asinine argument I've ever seen in a video game.

Sure, it sucked in WoW / Aion / just about every other MMO where players actively set the prices in auction houses and gold sellers had a harmful effect on the inflation rate of various tiers of items but.. we don't really have tiered items. You can't even buy the items that could even be slightly considered tiered (Max engineered components). So really, what is the argument? What foundation does it have outside of sketchy comparisons to other games from other developers who gave players more control over the environment than Frontier will ever give to us?

The ability to transfer credits to another player for services rendered / generosity / winnings from a competition etc, will in no way have a negative effect on the playability of this game or the community within it. There just isn't anything that a QOL feature like that could effect in a negative fashion.

Hell, I remember the days when it took weeks to farm over a million credits. Frontier already saw to the end of that.

Well hello Deadspin, it's been a while... ok, let's look at how gold sellers could really screw with Elite, because you are right - the economy is fixed. However, consider this:

You are a staunch support of the [whatever] faction, pledged to [whichever power]. Along comes a group of players, all loaded down with 200 billion credits each they bought, they're all flying A-grade Anaconda, and let's assume they're at least competent flying them. Then park in Your Favorite System, and use their combined wealth to swing the balance of power in that system to another faction, that Faction You Hate, pledged to the Power You Oppose. In essence, they're using real-world currency to buy out your Favorite System, and at the next update tick, that system flips, and is now controlled by That Other Faction, and by That Power You Oppose. And let's say they don't do this to just one system, because they can simply dump currency into a front company that sells credits in exchange for cash. They wind up flipping every system controlled by Your Favorite Faction, turning allies to enemies, and virtually forcing you to relocate - or fight fire with fire, and start buying hundreds of billions in credits yourself, to win back your favorite systems, factions and powers.

Sure, they haven't had any real impact on the economy - unless one of those flipped systems once sold a particular rare commodity, now illegal under new management.

And you're right as well - transferring credits for services rendered, to be kind, as prize money might not have any real negative impacts - but that would very quickly become the exception, not the rule.
It was largely, if not entirely, to placate the complaints that heavy mission stacking was screwing up the BGS that lead to Skimmer and Massacre missions being capped at 3 each - because too much money was being made and allowed system to be "bought" in these exact manners.

And then, there's the actual flow of currency as well - who are these gold sellers really? They could be terrorist organizations, criminal syndicates, even the Kim Jong family. Many times they're actually prisoners held by the Chinese government, forced to spam every game they can find to make money for the government, or be caned. And get caned for not meeting their quotas either.

Lastly, there comes the question of How do these gold sellers get all the currency they're selling? One of the most common is simply by stealing it. To use their service, many will have their customers install some little bit of software which contains a key logger. You buy your currency, load up on the best things you can get for it, maybe take a day off or go away for a weekend, come back to play, and everything you had is gone - every coin, every valuable item - all sold, and that currency transferred to another account - or several to make it even harder to figure out where it went.

So there you have how gold sellers ruin games with fixed economies. Sometimes directly, but usually indirectly, by making it far too easy for others to ruin the game.

 

[NW3]

It does make you wonder doesn't it.
Why do Frontier let the game be exploited ?

Yes, they do eventually "patch" (not remove or fix) an existing exploit but normally its 6 months to 1 year after the exploit has been first reported and abused.

I think the ED codebase is not robust. It seems like every patch creates new bugs and causes old bugs to reappear. In addition, there are priorities. In general, crashes and game-breaking issues are high-priority, as is adding new features (so they can sell the game to new players).

This means that exploits aren't ignored, but are just lower priority.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

I guess Frontier see it as a tolerable % within the demands on their time. So long as we don't start seeing in game assets costing Billions of cr then there is no real difference or advantage gained from being super wealthy if anything it makes you lose out as you trivialise every purchasable item.

 

[Farmboy]

Don't understand why somebody would buy a game and then essentially pay somebody else to play it for them?

Any yet, it demonstrably happens in other games. Some people have more money than sense, and there are those who will take advantage of them and their impatience, or addiction.

Don't just think in terms of swapping real world for in-game currency. If you could transfer modules, for instance, you could hire people to get PP locked modules, or to grind materials and the RNG for the best possible results for you, and pay for those with real-world cash.

 

[Magic Man]

Oh look, another "I want to get rich quick" moan... Wrong game, go somewhere else if you don't like it.

 

[Noctover]

you really think the games that big for Chinese gold farmers lol ,they wouldn't even bother

A game dosent have to be big or small for gold farmers etc, it just has to have people willing to buy, which there would be.

There are sploits in this game making it quick and easy to make money, and as you can see their are people willing to buy that, of course credit sellers would pop up. Not to the degree WoW has it, but they would be there.

 

[Deadspin]

Is it not possible that the ability to control how much of a commodity is available could, say, influence the outcome of a CG in favour of one faction over another?

Beyond that, more directly, it's easy to avoid mischief from a trigger-happy newbie in a Sidewinder. Not so much when they've bought themselves a fully tooled-up Corvette to make mischief in.

Last I checked there isn't really any mechanic you can exploit to get to Cutter/Corvette rank in a week. If there is, however, I'd like to know it.
As another point, it takes a good chunk of time to engineer a ship. A Conda/Cutter/Corvette built on credits alone won't last 10 seconds on it's own in a violent player confrontation.

Well hello Deadspin, it's been a while... ok, let's look at how gold sellers could really screw with Elite, because you are right - the economy is fixed. However, consider this:

You are a staunch support of the [whatever] faction, pledged to [whichever power]. Along comes a group of players, all loaded down with 200 billion credits each they bought, they're all flying A-grade Anaconda, and let's assume they're at least competent flying them. Then park in Your Favorite System, and use their combined wealth to swing the balance of power in that system to another faction, that Faction You Hate, pledged to the Power You Oppose. In essence, they're using real-world currency to buy out your Favorite System, and at the next update tick, that system flips, and is now controlled by That Other Faction, and by That Power You Oppose. And let's say they don't do this to just one system, because they can simply dump currency into a front company that sells credits in exchange for cash. They wind up flipping every system controlled by Your Favorite Faction, turning allies to enemies, and virtually forcing you to relocate - or fight fire with fire, and start buying hundreds of billions in credits yourself, to win back your favorite systems, factions and powers.

Sure, they haven't had any real impact on the economy - unless one of those flipped systems once sold a particular rare commodity, now illegal under new management.

And you're right as well - transferring credits for services rendered, to be kind, as prize money might not have any real negative impacts - but that would very quickly become the exception, not the rule.
It was largely, if not entirely, to placate the complaints that heavy mission stacking was screwing up the BGS that lead to Skimmer and Massacre missions being capped at 3 each - because too much money was being made and allowed system to be "bought" in these exact manners.

And then, there's the actual flow of currency as well - who are these gold sellers really? They could be terrorist organizations, criminal syndicates, even the Kim Jong family. Many times they're actually prisoners held by the Chinese government, forced to spam every game they can find to make money for the government, or be caned. And get caned for not meeting their quotas either.

Lastly, there comes the question of How do these gold sellers get all the currency they're selling? One of the most common is simply by stealing it. To use their service, many will have their customers install some little bit of software which contains a key logger. You buy your currency, load up on the best things you can get for it, maybe take a day off or go away for a weekend, come back to play, and everything you had is gone - every coin, every valuable item - all sold, and that currency transferred to another account - or several to make it even harder to figure out where it went.

So there you have how gold sellers ruin games with fixed economies. Sometimes directly, but usually indirectly, by making it far too easy for others to ruin the game.

Yeah, it has been awhile. I took a break from the forums for a little while there. I hope all has been well.

So, as far as your example is concerned, did you forget who I am? Who I play with? Diamond Frog systems have been under assault by billionaires for weeks now, ever since we started our grab for control of Xihe and Space Poultry made their desperate bid for assistance here on the forums (Cause everyone wants to have a villain to fight, right?). While I myself may not play as much as I used to I still keep tabs on our leadership channels in Discord and follow the day-to-day reports on assumed activity and the strength being wielded (assumed) against our various systems.

Having people throw their wealth at our systems is not something I'm a stranger to. We've been dealing with it since we first established ourselves in Jotunheim and got into a tiff with EG and friends. Having money to move commodities around doesn't make you some super power player force, especially when the amount of BGS influence traders have is so minimal when compared against heavy handed tactics that are popular today.

As far as the rest of your argument.. I don't really care what's going on outside of the game. If you're stupid enough to download and install a piece of software from gold sellers then that's on you and you alone for lacking the intelligence required to say, "Wait, this could be a bad idea, I shouldn't install software from an unknown source.." All of the times I've bought gold (WoW/Aion) I've never had to install or receive something out of the game. I get on the website, select the package, pay the fee via paypal and then wait for it to be sent to my in-game inbox.

So, in the end, there is nothing in Elite that gold sellers would break. Not the economy. Not the BGS. Not faction standings.

Having the wallet stamina to remain on site despite opposing force pushback is not a valid "THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED" mechanic as that can currently be achieved in a few days (or weeks) worth of farming exploits. There is also the solo/pg aspect of system tackling.

Having credits doesn't get you a cutter as a new player.

Having credits doesn't get you engineered parts.

Having credits doesn't get you a magical wand to wave at factions to buy out their systems.

Give me a real reason why Gold Sellers in Elite would be bad that doesn't rely on tear jerker theories that have never been substantiated.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Last I checked there isn't really any mechanic you can exploit to get to Cutter/Corvette rank in a week. If there is, however, I'd like to know it.
As another point, it takes a good chunk of time to engineer a ship. A Conda/Cutter/Corvette built on credits alone won't last 10 seconds on it's own in a violent player confrontation.



Yeah, it has been awhile. I took a break from the forums for a little while there. I hope all has been well.

So, as far as your example is concerned, did you forget who I am? Who I play with? Diamond Frog systems have been under assault by billionaires for weeks now, ever since we started our grab for control of Xihe and Space Poultry made their desperate bid for assistance here on the forums (Cause everyone wants to have a villain to fight, right?). While I myself may not play as much as I used to I still keep tabs on our leadership channels in Discord and follow the day-to-day reports on assumed activity and the strength being wielded (assumed) against our various systems.

Having people throw their wealth at our systems is not something I'm a stranger to. We've been dealing with it since we first established ourselves in Jotunheim and got into a tiff with EG and friends. Having money to move commodities around doesn't make you some super power player force, especially when the amount of BGS influence traders have is so minimal when compared against heavy handed tactics that are popular today.

As far as the rest of your argument.. I don't really care what's going on outside of the game. If you're stupid enough to download and install a piece of software from gold sellers then that's on you and you alone for lacking the intelligence required to say, "Wait, this could be a bad idea, I shouldn't install software from an unknown source.." All of the times I've bought gold (WoW/Aion) I've never had to install or receive something out of the game. I get on the website, select the package, pay the fee via paypal and then wait for it to be sent to my in-game inbox.

So, in the end, there is nothing in Elite that gold sellers would break. Not the economy. Not the BGS. Not faction standings.

Having the wallet stamina to remain on site despite opposing force pushback is not a valid "THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED" mechanic as that can currently be achieved in a few days (or weeks) worth of farming exploits. There is also the solo/pg aspect of system tackling.

Having credits doesn't get you a cutter as a new player.

Having credits doesn't get you engineered parts.

Having credits doesn't get you a magical wand to wave at factions to buy out their systems.

Give me a real reason why Gold Sellers in Elite would be bad that doesn't rely on tear jerker theories that have never been substantiated.

BGS influence isn't solely based on trade though - simple "Donate X Credit to (Fight off Famine/Quell Civil Unrest/Fund the Pensions of our Shareholders)" missions often generate some pretty good influence, and store-bought credits make this far too easy. And true, a bought-and-paid-for new player isn't going to have access to a Cutter, but they would be able to buy Anacondas, Belugas, Pythons and FdL's likely within the first 30 minutes - depending on what is available from the start. Engineered parts aren't required for simple pay-your-way missions, and most don't take all that long to unlock - Bill Turner and Selene Jean notwithstanding.

And believe me, I don't disagree in the slightest - if you're going to download something from who-knows-who, I'm rather lacking in sympathy if it turns around and bites you. But this does happen.

But perhaps the biggest impact beyond this - this has not existed since 2014, and thousands of players have already "made their money" though various legitimate, if not less-than-intended means - though missions be they stacked or simply worked at. To have someone simply buy their bankroll makes all that work somewhat meaningless.

And then - there is one other venue that can be wielded by those with bankroll power to destroy a group of players - plain old bribery. How much would it take to get you to sell out the Diamond Frogs? A trillion credits (remember, you could easily turn around and resell these for your own actual profit). Maybe _you_ could resist the temptation of a plain old bribe, but not everyone can.

Finally as for substantiation:
http://www.cnbc.com/2013/11/18/virtual-currencies-vulnerable-to-money-laundering-us-justice.html - This is more about Bitcoin but the premise is the same.
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/money-laundering-online - Second Life and World of Warcraft
https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.2368v1

Consider it substantiated.

 

[Stealthie]

Last I checked there isn't really any mechanic you can exploit to get to Cutter/Corvette rank in a week. If there is, however, I'd like to know it.
As another point, it takes a good chunk of time to engineer a ship. A Conda/Cutter/Corvette built on credits alone won't last 10 seconds on it's own in a violent player confrontation.

Firstly, I can't help noticing that you failed to answer the question I asked.
Secondly, just because certain ships are rank-locked, similar ones are not and so the point still stands; A jerk in an Anaconda can cause problems which a jerk in a Sidewinder cannot.
Thirdly, regardless of whether engineering makes things even better, expensive things are still better than cheap things.

So, if you're trying to deny that the ability to buy in-game credits can have a negative effect on other players and on the game itself, you might want to take another stab at it.

 

[iFred]

First, this game has 0 interest in friend/group mechanic. Open universe with huge map only for solo players.

I would like to see :
- trade mechanic between players (cargo, materials, data, ship/components, MONEY!)
- group missions

And no, i can't accept comments like : money transfer ruin the game. You know what? Exploits ruin the game, every player with brain exploits money when they can, and new players have no chance to get that money.
Its impossible to bring friends into this game in this state. Bring money exploits back in game or make money transfer!

I hope some devs read this post. You know new players = more money right?

PS: ranking and earning money in normal way is wayyy to slow, dont even try it just find exploits...

´
It was never easier.

 

[Deareim]

Having Wings but no group missions. Summarize quite well the game itself.

 

[Chris Simon]

Having Wings but no group missions. Summarize quite well the game itself.

It doesn't summatize the game. It sumarizes the game's focus. Elite is true Massive Singleplayer Online game. It gives you the ability the get together with friends and do something if you want to, but purposefully designing activities around it is not high on FD's priorities.
Missions make such minuscule part of the gameplay for many players, that one can't really blame them.

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

I am not a fan of the whole idea of having to work to unlock game items. Too many games do this. It's better if you allow the player to play with whatever he wants. You should be doing things in game because you want to earn virtual money. You should do things because they're fun.

Barriers create grind, and grind creates anger and anger leads to the dark side it does.

It's their money, let them transfer it.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I am not a fan of the whole idea of having to work

Corrected.

 

[Chris Simon]

I am not a fan of the whole idea of having to work to unlock game items. Too many games do this. It's better if you allow the player to play with whatever he wants. You should be doing things in game because you want to earn virtual money. You should do things because they're fun.

Barriers create grind, and grind creates anger and anger leads to the dark side it does.

It's their money, let them transfer it.

Mhmm. Like the mod that can get you a lvl 100 Glass armour right at the beginning of Skyrim, so you don't have to lose hundreds of hours playing the game. You can just admire it, run around for a bit and then move onto something different. Yah.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

The answer is probably: No.

 

[Deadspin]

BGS influence isn't solely based on trade though - simple "Donate X Credit to (Fight off Famine/Quell Civil Unrest/Fund the Pensions of our Shareholders)" missions often generate some pretty good influence, and store-bought credits make this far too easy. And true, a bought-and-paid-for new player isn't going to have access to a Cutter, but they would be able to buy Anacondas, Belugas, Pythons and FdL's likely within the first 30 minutes - depending on what is available from the start. Engineered parts aren't required for simple pay-your-way missions, and most don't take all that long to unlock - Bill Turner and Selene Jean notwithstanding.

And believe me, I don't disagree in the slightest - if you're going to download something from who-knows-who, I'm rather lacking in sympathy if it turns around and bites you. But this does happen.

But perhaps the biggest impact beyond this - this has not existed since 2014, and thousands of players have already "made their money" though various legitimate, if not less-than-intended means - though missions be they stacked or simply worked at. To have someone simply buy their bankroll makes all that work somewhat meaningless.

And then - there is one other venue that can be wielded by those with bankroll power to destroy a group of players - plain old bribery. How much would it take to get you to sell out the Diamond Frogs? A trillion credits (remember, you could easily turn around and resell these for your own actual profit). Maybe _you_ could resist the temptation of a plain old bribe, but not everyone can.

Finally as for substantiation:
http://www.cnbc.com/2013/11/18/virtual-currencies-vulnerable-to-money-laundering-us-justice.html - This is more about Bitcoin but the premise is the same.
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/money-laundering-online - Second Life and World of Warcraft
https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.2368v1

Consider it substantiated.

1: You could never pay me enough to sell out the Diamond Frogs. It's not so much to do with loyalty as it is with a fat wallet being absolutely useless in ED. I've also never been one to jump on the "make real money off of selling in-game stuff" train. It turns what I'm trying to enjoy with friends into a second job and that's a recipe for falling out of love with a piece of software real quick. I learned that lesson trying to run an 80 man ARMA 3 Milsim team. Never again will I put that much effort into a video game (though I did learn how to do basic scripting and lots of neat tricks with the ARMA 3 engine). Now.. offer me an FDL Engineered to the gills with all of the mods that I want and we might have a bargain.

2: "Unsubstantiated tear jerker theories" Money laundering is not a tear jerker. In fact, it's something that happens across all facets of business in almost all countries. I consider it one of those "facts of life" things. Money laundering is not a negative thing for Elite.. I mean, it's negative in general, but it's not going to harm gameplay and I doubt anyone's going to come in and shut down Frontier given that the big name games with gold sellers are still up and running despite people apparently laundering money through gold selling.

3: I'm well aware of what makes up the BGS and the numerous ways a solo player or group of players can influence it. That being said, I don't count space Romney's as a large enough force/factor to really upset the BGS and how it's manipulated.

Money doesn't buy you a win under any circumstances in this game unless you're sole go-to for getting your jollies off is via Seal Clubbing. Ergo, gold (Credit) sellers in this game would not have a huge negative impact on the community, the BGS, the fixed economy or PvP. Am I saying it would be all flowers and puppies? Absolutely not. What I'm saying is that this forum's reaction to "ERHMAGHERD PLAYER TRADING INVITES GOLD SELLERS" is a bit blown out of proportion. The absolute worst thing I could see happening would be sidewinders hanging out outside of CG stations, spamming local with adverts for credit sales. What's the answer most people have for annoying things in Open though?

Firstly, I can't help noticing that you failed to answer the question I asked.
Secondly, just because certain ships are rank-locked, similar ones are not and so the point still stands; A jerk in an Anaconda can cause problems which a jerk in a Sidewinder cannot.
Thirdly, regardless of whether engineering makes things even better, expensive things are still better than cheap things.

So, if you're trying to deny that the ability to buy in-game credits can have a negative effect on other players and on the game itself, you might want to take another stab at it.

I didn't answer your question because it wasn't worth answering. No major player faction is looking to influence the outcome of CGs as CGs themselves effect next to nothing in regards to player faction expansion or the general idea behind a player faction. The only time I've ever seen massive player faction movement on a CG was when it had a huge outcome, eg: The Dangerous Games, the Free Viper for Christmas, the Empire -v- Federation battle (Where the effect wasn't really all that big but the bragging rights for the winning faction between empire and federal loyalist were huge), the push to put player factions in colonia, the push to establish colonia and the few and far between pitiful handouts the explorers get with Jacques.

At the same time I pay little to no attention to CGs because, since even before launch, they've never been a 'thing' I've needed to do in order to attain some ship, rank or payout. They've never been a thing that my player faction has focused on unless there's some kind of neat benefit or payout (IE: The Christmas Viper and GalCop).

So, as you seem to expect a detailed reply to your posts:

1: Read the above.
2: The Anaconda, unmodded and fit through credits only, is a whale that will die quickly on the beaches of engineered aggression. Please stop acting like an A fit anaconda is actually something to contend with. They can trade somewhat well.. that's about it. Pretty much everyone and their mother flies cutters/corvettes now anyway. It's not like we'd really notice a change.
3: I actually had tons more fun in non-engineered Vultures and and Pythons than I ever did with anything engineered or with anything that cost over 300 million credits to fit. "Better" in this regard is purely subjective as I'm quite certain that the DF PvP Frogs could demolish you in an engineered cutter with their engineered and vastly less expensive Couriers and FDLs. "Better" is what you as a player prefer. We have hardcore players on this forum who've never moved on beyond the Cobra 3 because, to them, it's the best ship.

Get off your high horse and take another stab at this.

 

[Stealthie]

1: You could never pay me enough to sell out the Diamond Frogs. It's not so much to do with loyalty as it is with a fat wallet being absolutely useless in ED. I've also never been one to jump on the "make real money off of selling in-game stuff" train. It turns what I'm trying to enjoy with friends into a second job and that's a recipe for falling out of love with a piece of software real quick. I learned that lesson trying to run an 80 man ARMA 3 Milsim team. Never again will I put that much effort into a video game (though I did learn how to do basic scripting and lots of neat tricks with the ARMA 3 engine). Now.. offer me an FDL Engineered to the gills with all of the mods that I want and we might have a bargain.

2: "Unsubstantiated tear jerker theories" Money laundering is not a tear jerker. In fact, it's something that happens across all facets of business in almost all countries. I consider it one of those "facts of life" things. Money laundering is not a negative thing for Elite.. I mean, it's negative in general, but it's not going to harm gameplay and I doubt anyone's going to come in and shut down Frontier given that the big name games with gold sellers are still up and running despite people apparently laundering money through gold selling.

3: I'm well aware of what makes up the BGS and the numerous ways a solo player or group of players can influence it. That being said, I don't count space Romney's as a large enough force/factor to really upset the BGS and how it's manipulated.

Money doesn't buy you a win under any circumstances in this game unless you're sole go-to for getting your jollies off is via Seal Clubbing. Ergo, gold (Credit) sellers in this game would not have a huge negative impact on the community, the BGS, the fixed economy or PvP. Am I saying it would be all flowers and puppies? Absolutely not. What I'm saying is that this forum's reaction to "ERHMAGHERD PLAYER TRADING INVITES GOLD SELLERS" is a bit blown out of proportion. The absolute worst thing I could see happening would be sidewinders hanging out outside of CG stations, spamming local with adverts for credit sales. What's the answer most people have for annoying things in Open though?



I didn't answer your question because it wasn't worth answering. No major player faction is looking to influence the outcome of CGs as CGs themselves effect next to nothing in regards to player faction expansion or the general idea behind a player faction. The only time I've ever seen massive player faction movement on a CG was when it had a huge outcome, eg: The Dangerous Games, the Free Viper for Christmas, the Empire -v- Federation battle (Where the effect wasn't really all that big but the bragging rights for the winning faction between empire and federal loyalist were huge), the push to put player factions in colonia, the push to establish colonia and the few and far between pitiful handouts the explorers get with Jacques.

At the same time I pay little to no attention to CGs because, since even before launch, they've never been a 'thing' I've needed to do in order to attain some ship, rank or payout. They've never been a thing that my player faction has focused on unless there's some kind of neat benefit or payout (IE: The Christmas Viper and GalCop).

So, as you seem to expect a detailed reply to your posts:

1: Read the above.
2: The Anaconda, unmodded and fit through credits only, is a whale that will die quickly on the beaches of engineered aggression. Please stop acting like an A fit anaconda is actually something to contend with. They can trade somewhat well.. that's about it. Pretty much everyone and their mother flies cutters/corvettes now anyway. It's not like we'd really notice a change.
3: I actually had tons more fun in non-engineered Vultures and and Pythons than I ever did with anything engineered or with anything that cost over 300 million credits to fit. "Better" in this regard is purely subjective as I'm quite certain that the DF PvP Frogs could demolish you in an engineered cutter with their engineered and vastly less expensive Couriers and FDLs. "Better" is what you as a player prefer. We have hardcore players on this forum who've never moved on beyond the Cobra 3 because, to them, it's the best ship.

Get off your high horse and take another stab at this.

In summary; "I'm not counting stuff I don't care about".

Great stuff. [up]

 

[Deadspin]

In summary; "I'm not counting stuff I don't care about".

Great stuff. [up]

If you're too lazy to read the paragraph I wrote about CGs and how little they have to do with the actual BGS, which throws your foundation of "omg Romney's are ruining my fantasy faction expansion chances because they're buying out a single CG!" out the window, that's on you.

If CGs were required every time a faction needed to change states or was about to expand, I could understand your fear over Romney's being able to manipulate them. However, since no single minor faction has ever had recurrent back-to-back CGs to affect the space around it I will stand by my original point.

Your question was too stupid to warrant an answer.