Recent discussions of CG, Combat logging, "Griefers", etc, PLEASE explain...

[GluttonyFang]

I read that in the past as well. I also fully agree with the statement. It is a known exploit but fighting back or trying to escape really has been taken away from Pilots in anything less than an Anaconda or Cutter.

Untrue, escape is very simple unless one lacks the fundamental knowledge of game mechanics.

Real Crime and punishment will bring this all into line and make it a non issue. So if you are just killing for the sake of killing then you will be forced out to the edge of inhabited space like the Reavers. If you are just a criminal then you have a lot of wiggle room to still be piratey and useful in the simulation.

They really need to address this sooner rather than later. Especially if they are going to have more player events in Open.

Yes, crime and punishment needs updating.

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Well thats a philosophical point beyond the scope of this discussion i think. If its on my computer i get to choose when to run it and i think if fd tried to tell players when to start and stop software running on their own computers that legal problems might result for fd. It would be interesting to see how that might play out though.

It isn't philosophical since FD as the company owns the servers that enable you to play ED, even in solo. Thus if you utilized their software that you purchased to cause detriment to legitimate players with illegitimate usage of said software, the one in the wrong is you.

Gaming companies have banned countless players based on their behavioral issues and the way they use the games. As long as you haven't been living under a rock it should be common knowledge.

 

[Quiquag]

Don't know about that, I toss a message about piracy and poof, ships' gone

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Those are psychos, not pirates.

And CQC is a joke:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...hment-Proposals-for-CQC?p=4361733#post4361733

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See above, and I do want to interact peacefully, as long as my demand for cargo is met.

So the gankers hurt both traders and pirates. Thats pretty sad.

 

[ROSS-128]

I will say that while I am against random ganking, I don't see combat logging as legitimate either because it interferes with actual piracy.

In general I'd say the "gentleman's guide to polite piracy" would be:

As the trader, don't combat log. Either win the interdiction mini-game, fight (in the unlikely event you're kitted for it), outrun and jump away, or drop enough cargo to be tempting and then run for it (if they're a real pirate, the fact that chasing you will lead them away from the cargo and require them to waste time going back for it will actually concern them).

As the pirate, demand cargo before opening fire. Use hatchbreakers or subsystem targeting to pop the hatch: you're here for the cargo, not the ship. If the target flees after cargo has been dropped (voluntarily or otherwise), don't pursue, just scoop. Again, you're here for the cargo. Only destroy the ship outright if they engage and insist on fighting you to the death.

 

[m0rl0ck]

Gaming companies have banned countless players based on their behavioral issues and the way they use the games. As long as you haven't been living under a rock it should be common knowledge.

Well as i said it would be interesting to see how that played out. At the very least i think fd would end up giving at least a few refunds and getting lots of bad press.

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In general I'd say the "gentleman's guide to polite piracy" would be:

Oh come on, pirates are just thieves and deserve nothing but the contempt of honest people and given the chance, extermination.
Dressing up thievery in some fanciful code doesnt make it any less despicable or dishonorable.

 

[Phileosophos]

Your choice of dodge ball is a poor one because it's a very simple activity by comparison. I typically play Solo only, precisely because I'm not interested in being part of a universe stuffed to the brim with ever-griefing pilots. But sometimes it's nice to play with friends, maybe meet new people. I think it's easy to see why players might want to fly around in open play without constantly being attacked by said pilots. The game does an extremely poor job of providing anything resembling "safe" space for them to do this. And I think it's a perfectly legitimate desire to play that way, particularly given the whole way the game was marketed about choosing your own destiny: explore, fight, trade, etc. When in reality, in open play the game is pretty much all combat all the time, defending yourself from said pilots, no matter what you're actually trying to do.

 

[Zambrick]

In the last few month I have not been interdicted by anyone that did not have cascade and the scrambling engineering upgrade. Now 3 months ago yes. You could get away if you were smart and fast about it.

PODs EMC only stop the Pack Hound cascade killers and Chaff pretty much stops no one

Dont know many people who run turreted/gimbled weaponry on a combat oriented vessel. That is unless they play in solo only and only kill NPCs

You just Interdict someone target drive,FSD,or Powerplant depending on the ship. Press the Cascade and scrambling beams button and wait about 5 seconds. Now the ship is disabled regardless as to its type and shield strength and death ensues. Engineers have ruined it most traders and non combat Ships. Now as I understand your group does not like to use those mods and I thank you for it, but your group definitely not the one causing the issues.

Its single pirates and tiny groups that try and cause the maximum amount of grief that are the issue.

 

[Roybe]

Combat logging, leaving a situation by exiting the game, is allowable in this game AS LONG AS you use the exit mode through the 'quit' option in the menu.

Why do people do it? It can be from various reasons...but ultimately, it doesn't matter.

Can you explain to me, for my academic interest why it bothers you so much that people log out? They have admitted you have won the engagement...what more do you want out of the engagement?

 

[GluttonyFang]

Well as i said it would be interesting to see how that played out. At the very least i think fd would end up giving at least a few refunds and getting lots of bad press.

No refund will be given since FD didn't arbitrarily disable one's access to a portion of ED, it's the owner's doing.

As for bad press, it's more like good press: "FD crack down on players cheating their way out of combat."

 

[AJH16]

I am pretty sure that all the ship stats and whatnot are on their server. That doesnt require much server space or power so there is no need to charge people. The trigger pulls at least by the way it acts is what is Instanced.

There is a good you tube video out there on how bullets in VGs work. Its pretty good.

The server stores your ships numbers like defense shield strength ship type and cargo. Fighting seems to be P2P. Otherwise I dont think you could combat log. I am pretty sure that how it works but I have never seen their base net code so I could not tell you for sure. I can only see the effects of it.

Yes, combat occurs on the client, but engagements and outcomes are reported to the server. Even if they don't have a "start of combat" acknowledgement currently, it shouldn't be hard to add. Then it's just a matter of having the client take over during disconnect and reporting outcome. There would be negligible impact on server resource requirements. I'm a software architect and framework dev for a web based SAAS product, so this kind of thing is right up my alley (though my environment is more of the client/server variety for most stuff.)

 

[Zaggeron]

I just don't care about the loss and can afford it. But can totally understand others would log in that situation.

I would like to be in your position. But that one line shows me the difference between us. If I die I lose a full day's progress. I can't afford that. Playing in Open for me would be like taking one step forward and two steps back every time I played. So I play in Solo and PGs not really out of choice, but out of necessity. It seems to me that combat logging is a symptom of some underlying issues. What could be causing people to want to combat log instead of doing as you do and eating the rebuy cost ... Hmm maybe they dislike losing some significant percentage of their bank balance. Of course the response is "play in Solo or PG". I do. And for now I am pretty good at running away, but if the AI ever got as good at building their ships as the PvPers in Open, then I'd be taking one step forward and two steps back in Solo as well. At that point I don't know what my choices would be.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Combat logging, leaving a situation by exiting the game, is allowable in this game AS LONG AS you use the exit mode through the 'quit' option in the menu.

Only when piracy/bounty hunting isn't happening at the same time.

Can you explain to me, for my academic interest why it bothers you so much that people log out? They have admitted you have won the engagement...what more do you want out of the engagement?

Because it's unfairly detrimental to legitimate players' game play.

As a pirate I won nothing staring at a magically vanishing ship, if cargo is left behind/give me the actual time necessary to extract cargo, then sure, I'll stop complaining.

 

[nathdixon92]

Combat logging, leaving a situation by exiting the game, is allowable in this game AS LONG AS you use the exit mode through the 'quit' option in the menu.

Why do people do it? It can be from various reasons...but ultimately, it doesn't matter.

Can you explain to me, for my academic interest why it bothers you so much that people log out? They have admitted you have won the engagement...what more do you want out of the engagement?

Because the majority don't do that. They quit the game completely. There's a slight difference in a save and quit and a log.

Save and quit, you take damage til you disappear (ie the countdown).

"Dashboarding" as we call it on xbox, you stop taking damage altogether while the game attempts to reconnect until eventually you disappear after a minute or so.

 

[Roybe]

Only when piracy/bounty hunting isn't happening at the same time.



Because it's unfairly detrimental to legitimate players' game play.

As a pirate I won nothing staring at a magically vanishing ship, if cargo is left behind, then sure, I'll stop complaining.

Have the devs clarified their stance on this? Have a quote?

I think it would be fine if the players were given a 'surrender' option, and immediately were re-instanced, and a part of their cargo was left behind....seems like a legit way to make piracy less of a hassle...and even be profitable.

 

[Zambrick]

No refund will be given since FD didn't arbitrarily disable one's access to a portion of ED, it's the owner's doing.

As for bad press, it's more like good press: "FD crack down on players cheating their way out of combat."

That also depends on what you consider combat. Is combat pulling out ships who has no defense against an attack? Or is it turning around and shooting the other player or is it about escaping the combat?

Combat is defined as fighting between armed forces. Pulling over a trucker on the highway and then shooting him for beef jerky in the cab of the truck is not combat. I can assure you that 80% of the time combat is not happening but murder sure is.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Perhaps a "panic button" for traders that automatically and simultaneously retracts hardpoints, enables the cargo hatch, ejects x% of cargo, and initiates a jump to a random reachable system immediately ahead?

 

[GluttonyFang]

Have the devs clarified their stance on this? Have a quote?

I think you read the support's clarification on the matter already.

I think it would be fine if the players were given a 'surrender' option, and immediately were re-instanced, and a part of their cargo was left behind....seems like a legit way to make piracy less of a hassle...and even be profitable.

That will work.

 

[m0rl0ck]

Im a horror movie fan. These combat logging threads remind me of one of the Night of the Living Dead movies. A group of zombies had just slaughtered and eaten some cops and one of the zombies picks up a cop car mic and says "Send more cops."
Except in these threads its "Send more noobs., Not enough victims in open play."

 

[Roybe]

Because the majority don't do that. They quit the game completely. There's a slight difference in a save and quit and a log.

Save and quit, you take damage til you disappear (ie the countdown).

"Dashboarding" as we call it on xbox, you stop taking damage altogether while the game attempts to reconnect until eventually you disappear after a minute or so.

I am not standing up for those that exit ungracefully, and neither should you...a quick report filed of everyone that does this to the devs, who have promised to address the issue, is all that is needed. Honestly, I would like a rogues gallery of those put into the 'bad boys instancing'....but the devs have declared such a listing unavailable. So, believe they do such things...or not.

 

[GluttonyFang]

That also depends on what you consider combat. Is combat pulling out ships who has no defense against an attack? Or is it turning around and shooting the other player or is it about escaping the combat?

Combat logging = player disconnecting when in danger.

Combat is defined as fighting between armed forces. Pulling over a trucker on the highway and then shooting him for beef jerky in the cab of the truck is not combat. I can assure you that 80% of the time combat is not happening but murder sure is.

I'm a philosophy minor, please don't pull nonsense where they are irrelevant. Menu log's menu already gave us the answer.

 

[Roybe]

I think you read the support's clarification on the matter already.



That will work.

I hadn't read any clarification (I haven't been around for a few months like I used to be! )
...but if they have then...they should be removing players to the shadow server...<shrug>