Reclaim lost scan / mapping data

[space voyager]

Now Jump slightly? I am looking at players with ships up to 80 ly Jump range which is 2 times what Elite Dangerous started with and I just found this Max Jump Range. It pretty insane 320Ly.

Supercharged. That is assuming several factors;

• having an Anaconda totally devoted to jump range (no SLF, no SRV, no fun whatsoever) and spending a lot of time to get it engineered and optimally equipped,
• having access to the neutron highway (those are far from being everywhere),
• a pretty high additional risk of using neutron highway,
• carrying AFMU and collecting mats for recharge, additionally risking destruction at landings (and thus having an SRV and preferably a shield, meaning hard to get to 80LYs),
• constantly checking the state of FSD and risking destruction in the case of failure inside the jet,
• 65.000+ LY is a LONG way even with neutron highway.

I know, I've been there and used the highway for some part of the way back (my jump range was 51LYs), actually thought about crashing, throwing all the data away and reappearing in the bubble - but I remembered I would actually be reappearing at SAGA... So travel it was.

 

[nanite2000]

Well I look at a hour game time in any game feature is an hour.

That comment actually goes a long way to explaining why you and Lestat are unable to understand why the OP (and I) are requesting this feature. You evidently don't place any value on how you spend your time.

Most people with families, jobs, friends, and responsibilities will look at how they spend their time and ask themselves if it was worthwhile, especially when it comes to video games when free time is a precious commodity. There's nothing wrong with spending an hour playing a game if the player feels it was worthwhile.

For a game like Elite, where a player can spend months in deep space without any means to save his progress, it is heartbreaking to lose all that progress and have nothing to show for it. I don't mean credits - I mean the exploration data gathered, the time required to get to particular destinations, the first discovered tags, etc...

If a player loses all that after days/weeks/months, then they have literally wasted days/weeks/months of their lives. That's time that will never come back, and players will rightly feel thoroughly demotivated.

All we are asking for is a means to mitigate that loss in some way. You and Lestat wouldn't need to benefit from this new gameplay because you feel it is fine as it is already, so adding it wouldn't negatively affect your current gameplay anyway.

Now Jump slightly? I am looking at players with ships up to 80 ly Jump range which is 2 times what Elite Dangerous started with and I just found this Max Jump Range. It pretty insane 320Ly.

Space Voyager already explained pretty well why this is far from typical gameplay. Besides, increased jump range does not change the number of star systems visited by a deep space explorer, nor the time spent visiting them (and time is what this thread is about).

Now the last part of your post. Why don't you do the same. I don't have to agree with the Op suggestion and I can voice my views. But feel free to follow your own words and adventure elsewhere.

The difference is that the OP, myself, and Space Voyager are contributing to the discussion by making constructive comments and suggestions in the Suggestions forum about how gameplay could be added that will enrich the exploration experience. For example, 'Large Survey Data Caches' and 'Small Survey Data Caches' could have exploration benefits - the player gets data on surrounding systems when collected, and maybe tip offs of POI's. Likewise, rescuing escape pods could provide similar additional benefits.

All you and Lestat are doing is trotting out the same old arguments about how you don't think it's needed because you are either unwilling or unable to understand why this is being asked for in the first place, and using misinformation or deliberately ignoring the points made by other contributors in this thread.

What good would it do me to share my ideas in another thread if you and Lestat are just going to ignore what we're saying and repeat the same old arguments over and over again?

 

[nanite2000]

Supercharged. That is assuming several factors;

• having an Anaconda totally devoted to jump range (no SLF, no SRV, no fun whatsoever) and spending a lot of time to get it engineered and optimally equipped,
• having access to the neutron highway (those are far from being everywhere),
• a pretty high additional risk of using neutron highway,
• carrying AFMU and collecting mats for recharge, additionally risking destruction at landings (and thus having an SRV and preferably a shield, meaning hard to get to 80LYs),
• constantly checking the state of FSD and risking destruction in the case of failure inside the jet,
• 65.000+ LY is a LONG way even with neutron highway.

I know, I've been there and used the highway for some part of the way back (my jump range was 51LYs), actually thought about crashing, throwing all the data away and reappearing in the bubble - but I remembered I would actually be reappearing at SAGA... So travel it was.

And just to add to this - anyone who has ever been to Sagittarius A*, or the thin regions of the galaxy between the spiral arms, or the galactic edge, will know that neutron stars and white dwarves do not exist there, so you cannot SuperCharge your FSD in those regions.

Also, I think it is good to realise there is a difference between travel and exploration. There's nothing wrong with using the neutron highway to travel to a destination faster, but it's not exploration.

 

[Velixar]

Supercharged. That is assuming several factors;

• having an Anaconda totally devoted to jump range (no SLF, no SRV, no fun whatsoever) and spending a lot of time to get it engineered and optimally equipped,
• having access to the neutron highway (those are far from being everywhere),
• a pretty high additional risk of using neutron highway,
• carrying AFMU and collecting mats for recharge, additionally risking destruction at landings (and thus having an SRV and preferably a shield, meaning hard to get to 80LYs),
• constantly checking the state of FSD and risking destruction in the case of failure inside the jet,
• 65.000+ LY is a LONG way even with neutron highway.

I know, I've been there and used the highway for some part of the way back (my jump range was 51LYs), actually thought about crashing, throwing all the data away and reappearing in the bubble - but I remembered I would actually be reappearing at SAGA... So travel it was.

See right now I have an new exploration ship. I am Collecting Synthesis Minerals around the bubble so I can maximize my jump range. I was also going to play around Neutron highway. I learn to use Gravity tell me if landing worth the risk or not. If it 1 or 2 G I am OK anything over that is too much of a risk.

Now your last part of your post is what concerns me. If they added this idea and someone was in badly damage ship. All they would have to do is self destruct or crash into a planet and get a brand new ship and head back and collect the data and be on their way. They would be leaving new Saga station or Colonia To collect that data. Or if Power Play Open Only ever added. We could see Players self destruct close to the bubble So they can switch to a combat ship and bring that data in safely. So I kinda see this as a type of a exploit.

I listing to both of you on how people value their time. Don't you think they will use the same excuse and claim the distance is too far after they self destruct? What about then? Are you going to ask Frontier to move the data closer to a stations or the Bubble? Even if you self destruct in Beagle point? It will take time to get back. We also have to look at First Discovered they should not get that.

Remember my earlier post. If the mechanic was like it was in 2014 2015 when we had shorter jump range 38 to 41 Ly and no stations in the deep or any type of way to extend your jump doing 2,000 + jumps one way I would agree with the Op. idea. But I am looking at todays Mechanics.

You know Nanite2000 I don't think people are going to listen to your babbling when you are downing other people options. Sorry.

 

[nanite2000]

You know Nanite2000 I don't think people are going to listen to your babbling when you are downing other people options. Sorry.

Except you haven't presented any alternative options, so...

But hey - let's look at what you did present:

See right now I have an new exploration ship. I am Collecting Synthesis Minerals around the bubble so I can maximize my jump range. I was also going to play around Neutron highway. I learn to use Gravity tell me if landing worth the risk or not. If it 1 or 2 G I am OK anything over that is too much of a risk.

In other words: "I'm fine, so there's no problem."

You are risk-averse. It's unreasonable to expect all other explorers to be as conservative as you.

Now your last part of your post is what concerns me. If they added this idea and someone was in badly damage ship. All they would have to do is self destruct or crash into a planet and get a brand new ship and head back and collect the data and be on their way.

At a monumental cost of personal time. But whatever - what would be the problem with this from your perspective? How would it negatively impact your gameplay?

Or if Power Play Open Only ever added. We could see Players self destruct close to the bubble So they can switch to a combat ship and bring that data in safely. So I kinda see this as a type of a exploit.

That's a very hypothetical situation, since Power Play Open Only has not yet even been confirmed, let alone implemented.

Even if it were implemented, it could only be considered an exploit if you also consider playing the game in Solo an 'exploit', because switching to Solo would be infinitely easier than doing what you suggest. Your hypothetical 'exploit' is so impractical, no one would do it. And even if they did - so what? How would this negatively impact your gameplay anyway?

I listing to both of you on how people value their time. Don't you think they will use the same excuse and claim the distance is too far after they self destruct? What about then? Are you going to ask Frontier to move the data closer to a stations or the Bubble? Even if you self destruct in Beagle point? It will take time to get back.

Yes, the distance and time required to recollect your data is the whole point. The player has a choice of deciding whether travelling that same distance to recollect their data is worth it. Add in a timer, and you have a further incentive to attempt to do it within a particular timeframe.

The main thing is that players would have a choice, which they don't have right now.

We also have to look at First Discovered they should not get that.

Why not? If they were the first to visit a system and return the data, why shouldn't they still be awarded a First Discovered tag?

If they stole someone else's survey cache, then I agree that they shouldn't be awarded a First Discovered tag.

Remember my earlier post. If the mechanic was like it was in 2014 2015 when we had shorter jump range 38 to 41 Ly and no stations in the deep or any type of way to extend your jump doing 2,000 + jumps one way I would agree with the Op. idea. But I am looking at todays Mechanics.

Todays mechanics are not much different to 2014/2015. Yes, you can jump slightly further, and get to some places slightly faster. But they haven't really changed the exploration gameplay. For example, the entire northern half of the galaxy has absolutely no space stations whatsoever.

Explorers, by their very nature, will be exploring uninhabited regions of the galaxy, very far away from any space stations.

 

[MadSinUN]

You can implement this as follows. A player's ship with map data becomes an "unidentified signal" when destroyed, and the player can return to the system, find the signal and return the data, or if he is not lucky, someone else will find the data and assign it to himself. Tough, but logical and honest) For other players it will be like finding the lost expedition.

 

[nanite2000]

You can implement this as follows. A player's ship with map data becomes an "unidentified signal" when destroyed, and the player can return to the system, find the signal and return the data, or if he is not lucky, someone else will find the data and assign it to himself. Tough, but logical and honest) For other players it will be like finding the lost expedition.

Exactly! And we already have a mechanic we can build on - Survey Data Caches, found randomly in uninhabited space:

• Could be another player's cartographic data. Collect it and it will be added to your Galaxy Map, but you won't be awarded credits or 'First Discovered' tags.
• Could be an NPC's cartographic data. Collect it and you will receive data on x systems within y radius of your current position.
• Could be POI hints for nearby systems (biological life, Lagrange clouds, listening posts, volcanism, etc...).
• Could be data with unbreakable encryption. Return it for a credit reward.

 

[space voyager]

See right now I have an new exploration ship. I am Collecting Synthesis Minerals around the bubble so I can maximize my jump range. I was also going to play around Neutron highway. I learn to use Gravity tell me if landing worth the risk or not. If it 1 or 2 G I am OK anything over that is too much of a risk.

Now your last part of your post is what concerns me. If they added this idea and someone was in badly damage ship. All they would have to do is self destruct or crash into a planet and get a brand new ship and head back and collect the data and be on their way. They would be leaving new Saga station or Colonia To collect that data. Or if Power Play Open Only ever added. We could see Players self destruct close to the bubble So they can switch to a combat ship and bring that data in safely. So I kinda see this as a type of a exploit.

I listing to both of you on how people value their time. Don't you think they will use the same excuse and claim the distance is too far after they self destruct? What about then? Are you going to ask Frontier to move the data closer to a stations or the Bubble? Even if you self destruct in Beagle point? It will take time to get back. We also have to look at First Discovered they should not get that.

Remember my earlier post. If the mechanic was like it was in 2014 2015 when we had shorter jump range 38 to 41 Ly and no stations in the deep or any type of way to extend your jump doing 2,000 + jumps one way I would agree with the Op. idea. But I am looking at todays Mechanics.

You know Nanite2000 I don't think people are going to listen to your babbling when you are downing other people options. Sorry.

IMO Nanite nailed it. Solo offers a lot more safety than a warship ever could, also why on Earth would you destroy yourself? Most explorers have repair tools or the help of fuel/repair rats. Deliberate destruction makes absolutely no sense unless you simply don't want to travel the distance. Being destroyed means travelling the distance TWICE. I don't see any logic in your arguments.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Quite some time ago, I suggested the following :

Scope / Problem :
- Explorers are absolutely unique in terms of how much accumulated Work (Playtime invested) they risk losing at Ship loss
(compare : Trader = max. 1 run, Bounty Hunter = typically 1 Session, Passenger Ship = max. 1 full load, Miner = max. 1 full load ; Explorer = upto several month (!) of work)

Solutions to mitigate this massively asymmetric Risk :
a) permit selling of Data in Deep Space via IF Online, at i.e. 25% (or even 50% or a Distance-from-nearest-Inhabiited-System factor) Discount to yield an Option to minimize risk of losing all Data, especially on very long trips

or

b) upon Ship Destruction, a number of "Encoded Large Survey Data" is spawned in the System, limited lifetime of 1 week; after Rebuy CMDR gets signal in GalMap and Beacon if arriving in the System (analog to a blue Mission Objective Detected USS) to recoup a certain percentage of the Data (i.e. 75%)

Both Options would come with respective price tags of their own (subject to FDev balancing, above numbers just mere suggestions) and afford realistic Gameplay Options where currently none exist.
IF Online Services for example could be extended to any Data (Bounty Vouchers and Combat Bonds) for sake of fairness, again with a significant Discount requiring to make a sound decision whether to utilize them or not (hence for now I labeled the Service "IF Online" and not "UC Online").