General / Off-Topic Recycle or Die! (the elite environmental thread)

[jasonbarron]

The way you chuck in a 60 minutes video (which btw. is made in a horrible sales show style that reeks of money rather than science) looks like you're hiding behind a video without a single own argument. Very convenient. I wonder if you're really interested in a discussion at all or rather in an agitation war. If everyone would use this style, we'd have cascades of pro and con videos here. This way people stop talking at all, that's just communicating over symbols - which is almost a religious approach to a topic that urgently requires clear and unbiased (also from economic considerations!) examinations and suitable reactions.



So that's your argument then, the "doomsayers" once were wrong so they always have to be wrong. With this simple argument you're denying all the hard work of thousands of dedicated scientists all over the world who sacrificed a great portion of their lifetime to make a very bitter forecast which to me boils down to "it's already too late". Mainly due to some influential simple minds who don't understand the concept of probabilities and tend to sue the weather report if a forecast of 80% sunshine results in a thunderstorm for once. It's these people whose answer usually consists of just another, bigger SUV who kill the last hopes for our next generations.

FWIW If you would understand German I would retaliate with a video from Harald Lesch - and if only to give a small insight of how true science looks like.

The entire climate change industry IS a business that reeks of money, CMDR. Why you buy it hook, line and sinker without even a shred of skepticism is simply beyond me.

 

[jasonbarron]

So what you're trying to tell me is that it's the windcraft or solar cells producer that are suddenly the big players now? Really? And not possibly the auto manufacturer and the oil companies, which is were the true incentives for fake news and smokescreens are coming from?

It's people like you and the bicycle lobby that worry me the most

 

[jasonbarron]

I'm counting every one of the times you quote me as a "like," in the interest of full disclosure.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Appeal to authority does not a convincing argument make. I don't know what Morano has in that video, as I'm not taking an hour of my life to watch it, but you've actually said nothing which addresses any point. To be clear, that doesn't mean that there's any content of value in that video - just your dismissal of it is weak at best.

I also note that similar comment hasn't been passed about Al Gore, Greta Thunberg, Bob Ward or any other media personalities of the climate movement. In fact, a number of Bob Ward's somewhat hysterical commentary pieces have been promoted in this thread.

And you go on to then reference a blog run and curated by a "cognitive scientist" - hardly an expert in climate science. And one which is, in my own experience, is not in the least bit skeptical about anything that reinforces the desired narrative. Said psychologist (John Cook) is actually one of the actors responsible for the "97% of climate scientists" consensus, utterly somehow missing the way that science actually works. He is a salesman. A spin doctor. A P.R. man for the cause. Nothing more.

Irony abounds.

When the title of your own video is wrong, it puts into question my will to waste one hour of my life to adress the arguments made. If Jason at least put a bit of effort and used the arguments on the video I'd bother.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

For the record I made the same arguments when the fear promotion was global cooling. And again when it became apparent that the world wasn't cooling and the fear promotion shifted to global warming. Then, again when it shifted to be more all inclusively titled "climate change" in an effort to literally cover all the bases. My position over the years (and not living stuck in a city dependent solely on a public transportation system that restricts you to a teensy little area no bigger than the city you currently inhabit where you see no more of the natural world than a local park) has been very consistent; despite world leaders completely in control of the messaging telling us that we're doomed unless we give them more money and power, the sky simply is not falling. We're not doomed, and messaging to the contrary are flat out lies designed to persuade people like you that have no objective measuring stick to judge otherwise that we are.

Wait, when the hell did we see a scientific consensus on global cooling?

The rest is just you projecting.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

The entire climate change industry IS a business that reeks of money, CMDR. Why you buy it hook, line and sinker without even a shred of skepticism is simply beyond me.

That argument cuts both ways, oil industries and many others that depend on oil consumption are not benefitted by AGW.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

It's people like you and the bicycle lobby that worry me the most

The bicyble lobby? LOL, they are trying to take over the worlds, never mind insurance, banking, oil, tech, real estate, entretainment, energy and copyright industries, we must worry about bicycles.

 

[jasonbarron]

The bicyble lobby? LOL, they are trying to take over the worlds, never mind insurance, banking, oil, tech, real estate, entretainment, energy and copyright industries, we must worry about bicycles.

Of the many common denominators linking climate change doomsayers (besides lack of personal mobility, utter dependence on public transportation and love of totalitarian group think) is a complete lack of a sense of humor. The bicycle thing was a joke, man. A joke.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Of the many common denominators linking climate change doomsayers (besides lack of personal mobility, utter dependence on public transportation and love of totalitarian group think) is a complete lack of a sense of humor. The bicycle thing was a joke, man. A joke.

Seeing how much you dislike anything that transports people other than cars, I would have no idea to tell.

 

[jasonbarron]

Seeing how much you dislike anything that transports people other than cars, I would have no idea to tell.

I've clocked nearly 80,000-100,000 miles by dog team over the course of my life, so there goes that theory.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I've clocked nearly 80,000-100,000 miles by dog team over the course of my life, so there goes that theory.

I was being laconical, then again, cars don't get you across oceans. In any case, you are only denying AGW based on your fears and ideals, not on scientific facts.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Of the many common denominators linking climate change doomsayers (besides lack of personal mobility, utter dependence on public transportation and love of totalitarian group think) is a complete lack of a sense of humor. The bicycle thing was a joke, man. A joke.

It is difficult to have a sense of humor when we talk about things as serious and dramatic as the disappearance of thousands of animal species, including insects and birds that are essential to the balance of the life on the earth, the accelerated melting of glaciers, the unbearable pollution of the air in our cities, the harmful noise, the overfishing in the oceans, the deforestation of the Amazon and other places that are the lungs of our planet, of greed and obsession of the money by a few thousand morons who only think of their own egocentrism and their little person, of the exhaustion of planetary resources already in the middle of the year, of animal abuse related to overconsumption and still, still, still many other things. I do not see how such a subject can be a place for joking.

 

[Arry]

I've clocked nearly 80,000-100,000 miles by dog team over the course of my life, so there goes that theory.

Got it.

Loyalty to one's sponsors, is very important and fully understandable.

Subaru, Dodge and Chrysler, are a little bit behind; in the E.V. market.

Fair play.

As I said earlier: Understanding some of the reasons, why people think and act, the way they do: Explains a lot and helps to justify their reasoning.

 

[jasonbarron]

Got it.

Loyalty to one's sponsors, is very important and fully understandable.

Subaru, Dodge and Chrysler, are a little bit behind; in the E.V. market.

Fair play.

As I said earlier: Understanding some of the reasons, why people think and act, the way they do: Explains a lot and helps to justify their reasoning.

That was your take away? Seriously?

 

[jasonbarron]

It is difficult to have a sense of humor when we talk about things as serious and dramatic as the disappearance of thousands of animal species, including insects and birds that are essential to the balance of the life on the earth, the accelerated melting of glaciers, the unbearable pollution of the air in our cities, the harmful noise, the overfishing in the oceans, the deforestation of the Amazon and other places that are the lungs of our planet, of greed and obsession of the money by a few thousand morons who only think of their own egocentrism and their little person, of the exhaustion of planetary resources already in the middle of the year, of animal abuse related to overconsumption and still, still, still many other things. I do not see how such a subject can be a place for joking.

Pretty melodramatic, my friend. Sounds like a version of Chicken Little I used to read my kids when they were little. I'd read that to them as a cautionary tale about how many foolish, easily manipulated people there were in the world, and how they could avoid such a fate.

Things aren't as grim as you make out, not by a long shot. It's just hysteria masquerading as knowledge.

 

[Arry]

That was your take away? Seriously?

It's a start.

My empathy, is not limited exclusively, to the less fortunate. An example: I understand why Lord chump, is the way he is and because of this. I can understand, the reasons, for his actions etc..

We are what we are and because of this. We do what we do. There is nothing wrong with this, it is a simple fact.

The trick to me is: To understand what we are and take responsibility, for what we do.

Another example. I role play here, as a dog. So sometimes, I write silly things like this. See post 1,462

 

[Senzafine]

I've clocked nearly 80,000-100,000 miles by dog team over the course of my life, so there goes that theory.

Wow, that looks like a lot of fun!

I used to live in the country for a period, long time ago before bus services were decimated and made unaffordable. I have a lot of sympathy for those that have to rely on car in that situation. The best thing in that case is to opt for the most fuel efficient car that they can afford. If they can afford one at all.

Oh and the old global cooling in the 70's chestnut - that was mostly a media flurry. Even at the time the majority of studies forecast waming rather than cooling.

https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s-intermediate.htm

 

[Arry]

Fools and suckers; the lot of you.

Adopt a cat? Meh! They choose to let you serve them; it is that simple. The only reason they 'might' come to you, when you call them. Is for food. Try feeding one and them letting it out and try to call it back again, straight away. No chance. Its belly is full and the only reason they return; is for more food, when they are hungry. We have some, that choose to sleep in our house. They are little murders. Birds, squirrels and all manner of innocent creatures. Are toyed with and often slowly killed, for nothing more than fun. As to their loyalty? They get fresh food, twice a day and yet; they sit outside our neighbours back door and wait for treats.

Cats as pets? Don't make me laugh. Next someone will be trying to tell me, that they are always, stealing my bed. just to keep it warm, for me.

 

[jasonbarron]

It's a start.

My empathy, is not limited exclusively, to the less fortunate. An example: I understand why Lord chump, is the way he is and because of this. I can understand, the reasons, for his actions etc..

We are what we are and because of this. We do what we do. There is nothing wrong with this, it is a simple fact.

The trick to me is: To understand what we are and take responsibility, for what we do.

I share a picture showing an explicit form of alternative travel that I'm versed in to debunk the theory that I'm only sympathetic to fossil fuel and you can't get past the Suburu logo on the bib and go on to use it as a means to put me in bed with the automotive industry.

 

[Senzafine]

It is difficult to have a sense of humor when we talk about things as serious and dramatic as the disappearance of thousands of animal species, including insects and birds that are essential to the balance of the life on the earth, the accelerated melting of glaciers, the unbearable pollution of the air in our cities, the harmful noise, the overfishing in the oceans, the deforestation of the Amazon and other places that are the lungs of our planet, of greed and obsession of the money by a few thousand morons who only think of their own egocentrism and their little person, of the exhaustion of planetary resources already in the middle of the year, of animal abuse related to overconsumption and still, still, still many other things. I do not see how such a subject can be a place for joking.

Gallows humour. It really can help in unbearable situations, sometimes you need to create a certain amount of emotional distance from stuff or be overwhelmed by the negative feelings. Trust me on this OK, I've had a lot of practice