Reduce the grind

[dekot]

Hey Frontier, NMS reduced the grind and all players are happy. Please take note.

The grind isn't what makes this game tedious. It's the lack of engaging gameplay and lack of connection between game elements and lack of connection between the player and the game world. The grind is just a consequence of that. Removing the grind will just make all that much more obvious and leave everyone a little bit more miserable.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Having to do engineer to play the base gameplay loops is pretty much hamsterwheeling for me.

I call it playing the game. As stated you get nearly all of those materials for those grades anyway by just playing the game. You do not need engineers to play the base gameplay loops. That is factually not true.

Engineer's are not needed for trading, mining, missions, or combat (as long as you pick your targets well).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I could not... Sadly get good right?

You don't need to, I just stated that.

Or maybe, maaaayybbeee, you are underestimating the requirements?

Nope.

But still!! Get good!!

I didn't say that. Read my posts.

Meh anyway, you did not get the est of my sentences since I was talking about you repeating the same sayings over and over again trying to solve our problem which seem to be our only , not about the game

Because you seem to have issues understanding it.

If I was talking about the game I would have said like... What... 100 times?

Okkkkkaaaaaaayyyyyy.

 

[Sunyavadin]

Having to do engineer to play the base gameplay loops is pretty much hamsterwheeling for me.

I think the actual fix for this is to have the intensities on CZs really mean something, and have it impact the spawns of engineered vs non-engineered NPCs. There's a reason I reached double elite in trade and exploration while mostly harmless in combat and only began attempting combat once I had that money and those engineers unlocked. There should be a more viable path to making money and upgrading via pve combat. What I don't think is that it requires changing the balance of trade/mining/missions/exploration/engineering/etc. Just making more aspects of combat, and its investment vs reward, scale more in line with how they do.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I call it playing the game. As stated you get nearly all of those materials for those grades anyway by just playing the game. You do not need engineers to play the base gameplay loops. That is factually not true.

Engineer's are not needed for trading, mining, missions, or combat (as long as you pick your targets well).

Yes I do, because wailing on the bulletspongesn with vanilla peashooters just isnt fun anymore.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yes I do, because wailing on the bulletspongesn with vanilla peashooters just isnt fun anymore.

Except it isn't like that if you pick your targets carefully. To me it looks like you are looking for excuses.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Except it isn't like that if you pick your targets carefully. To me it looks like you are looking for excuses.

Look, combat is a rouletto to have a buff AI spawn on me. CZ experience is totally neutered for me. My stuff went from causes explosion to pewpew.

Playing combat in ED is like choosing between Skylla and Charybdis:
Either I grind enemies down with my nerf guns (no fun) or I grind engineers (no fun either) so I have something efficient that doesn't go just pewpew. In any case I have to do something unfun. All the while remembering that it was quite fun without engineers and the stupid power creep.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Look, combat is a rouletto to have a buff AI spawn on me. CZ experience is totally neutered for me. My stuff went from causes explosion to pewpew.

Sorry but you are completely wrong. I went into a combat zone with a completely unengineered Python (other ships are better), I had no issues destroying most of the ships. The only issues I had were Anacondas and Corvettes, but they only took time. I generally completely avoid those ships now anyway. CZ are NOT an issue with un-engineered ships. This is a falacy and completely not true.

Playing combat in ED is like choosing between Skylla and Charybdis:
Either I grind enemies down with my nerf guns (no fun) or I grind engineers (no fun either) so I have something efficient that doesn't go just pewpew. In any case I have to do something unfun. All the while remembering that it was quite fun without engineers and the stupid power creep.

Utter balderdash. It is just not true. You are looking for excuses right now, and you have none. Look for a better excuse then one that doesn't damn well exist.
Grade 1-3 upgrade are not a grind, the materials are utterly easy to get and do not require you to do the same thing continuously, it is a fallacy, and that is all you need for the toughest of NPC ships.

The Dweller (Lasers) for instance will be already unlocked, pay him 500,000 credits which is easy money these day, have some sulpher which I would be surprised if you don't have any as you get it so easily and upgrade your weapons to grade 1 efficient. Not a grind to get it.

Grade 2 Efficient lasers are again 1 x Sulphur which is stupidly common and 1 x Heat Dispersion Plate which you can get as a mission reward, again not a grind.

Grade 3 are Exceptional Scrambled Emission Data, easy to get by just scanning ships in supercruise, 1 x Chromium again extremely common and found in most places, 1x Heat Exchanger from ship salvage (after destroying a ship with your nice shiny grade 2 efficient weapons), again easy to get and not a grind, hell you can even swap those out with other materials you don't need from missions, again not a grind.

There doesn't need to be any grinding to get grade 1-3 weapons on your ship. Most you get from day to day activities anyway, or you can swap them out at a broker.

To get all the sulpher you need for one ship (choose your main one) it will take roughly 10 minutes on a planet surface and you can probably pick up the chromium at the same time. That is not a grind whether you like driving an SRV or not.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Sorry but you are completely wrong. I went into a combat zone with a completely unengineered Python (other ships are better), I had no issues destroying most of the ships. The only issues I had were Anacondas and Corvettes, but they only took time. I generally completely avoid those ships now anyway. CZ are NOT an issue with un-engineered ships. This is a falacy and completely not true.


Utter balderdash. It is just not true. You are looking for excuses right now, and you have none. Look for a better excuse then one that doesn't damn well exist.
Grade 1-3 upgrade are not a grind, the materials are utterly easy to get and do not require you to do the same thing continuously, it is a fallacy, and that is all you need for the toughest of NPC ships.

....

My experience is different. And I havent heard they fixed the spawning mechanics. NPCs became a grind to kill. I doubt I could kill anything in a CZ without substantial engineering.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

My experience is different.

When was the last time you went hunting for materials on a planet? These day you get I think three units of sulpher for every pick up. As sulphur is so common you will likely have 20 bits in a few minutes and the same goes for chromium. I have hundreds of them and I am not even look for the blighters.

And I havent heard they fixed the spawning mechanics. NPCs became a grind to kill. I doubt I could kill anything in a CZ without substantial engineering.

Surely that depends on the opponents you take on? Take on anacondas, then yes they will, but that was no difference in the old days when you took one on in a sidewinder or eagle, doable, but took ages. Now there is a way to customise your weapons in a way that fits your playstyle, whether that is long range, efficient, over powered etc.

Are you really saying you couldn't kill an Eagle in a CZ in an unengineered Vulture, DBS, Cobra, Viper, python, krait mk2, Krait phantom, FDL, Mamba, corvette etc.

I can tell you know they go boom in seconds. Sheilds are down in seconds and hull is gone in seconds. Bigger ships take a bit longer, and then the really large ships can take a long time. But if you don't like taking your time fighting stuff, don't attack them. Go for the Eagles, Vipers, Cobras, pythons etc. Just make sure you are fully armoured up with hull plating and shield boosters and you will be fine.

One thing I will say is that Vultures can be nasty as they are so manouverable, watch out for them.

 

[Brrokk]

When was the last time you went hunting for materials on a planet? These day you get I think three units of sulpher for every pick up. As sulphur is so common you will likely have 20 bits in a few minutes and the same goes for chromium. I have hundreds of them and I am not even look for the blighters.
...

I fear you're debating with someone who doesn't actually play ED anyway; he's said as much in previous threads.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I fear you're debating with someone who doesn't actually play ED anyway; he's said as much in previous threads.

Yeah I know. I even offered to wing up with him and help out.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

I call it playing the game. As stated you get nearly all of those materials for those grades anyway by just playing the game. You do not need engineers to play the base gameplay loops. That is factually not true.

Engineer's are not needed for trading, mining, missions, or combat (as long as you pick your targets well).

I'm curious, how would one accumulate the requisite amount of painite or travel 5000ly while playing their game if one was disinclined to do mining or long distance travelling? If "playing the game" is how you perform the required tasks for engineering, how do you surpass either of these hurdles while playing the game with a combat focus?

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Could one of you fine chaps suggesting a CZ is perfectly reasonable in an unengineered ship show us you doing it? Twitch stream or something? Perhaps I'm incorrect but there's a way you can prove it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm curious, how would one accumulate the requisite amount of painite or travel 5000ly while playing their game if one was disinclined to do mining or long distance travelling? If "playing the game" is how you perform the required tasks for engineering, how do you surpass either of these hurdles while playing the game with a combat focus?

Now you are talking about unlocking, but as far as I know you don't need to travel 5000ly or mine the required amount of painite (only 10 units needed to unlock and 500 units of anything for meeting requirements) to unlock the required engineers to be effective against NPC combatants. Useful yes, required, most certainly not.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Could one of you fine chaps suggesting a CZ is perfectly reasonable in an unengineered ship show us you doing it? Twitch stream or something? Perhaps I'm incorrect but there's a way you can prove it.

I would but I am not set up for streaming and around 40,000ly from any potential combat zones. How do you think I unlocked the Bris Decker, one of the later ones I unlocked (still havent unlocked them all), yep, with my unengineered (apart from the FSD) Python. The reason why I didn't do much before was because I really didn't like the process of the old engineers and only used them when I really needed to. Now its a much more smoother and in some ways for me an enjoyable experience.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Now you are talking about unlocking, but as far as I know you don't need to travel 5000ly or mine the required amount of painite (only 10 units needed to unlock and 500 units of anything for meeting requirements) to unlock the required engineers to be effective against NPC combatants. Useful yes, required, most certainly not.

So, in essence, you can't. You need to grind them. The same goes for most unlocks.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

I would but I am not set up for streaming and around 40,000ly from any potential combat zones. How do you think I unlocked the Bris Decker, one of the later ones I unlocked (still havent unlocked them all), yep, with my unengineered (apart from the FSD) Python. The reason why I didn't do much before was because I really didn't like the process of the old engineers and only used them when I really needed to. Now its a much more smoother and in some ways for me an enjoyable experience.

When did you unlock Bris Decker? I'm going to guess before the recent changes to CZs? With the level of engineering on ships now in those, there's no way you can go in unengineered.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So, in essence, you can't. You need to grind them. The same goes for most unlocks.

Most unlocks you don't need any grind what so ever. But as I am talking about being good enough to face NPCs most of the ones you need are extremely easy and only require very basic requirements. So yes I am correct.

But I do agree that a few of the unlocks (which aren't necessary) can be grindy depending on how you go about them, like the mining one if you don't like mining and if you haven't mined before, but saying that, with the different variations on mining these days, it really shouldn't be a big deal and a lot would probably enjoy it with the new mechanics.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

When did you unlock Bris Decker? I'm going to guess before the recent changes to CZs? With the level of engineering on ships now in those, there's no way you can go in unengineered.

Yep, it was about 9 months ago, but I understand that only certain easily identifiable ships are engineered up to the hilt and you don't need to go after those.

Not that it matters because you don't need to go un-engineerd. You can easily engineer your ship well before you get to unlock him. In fact you don't need to unlock him to be effective against NPCs at all. Its just an easy unlock if you're in a combat zone anyway, you may as well do it.