Relative Mouse mode

Morbad

Morbad
galahad2069 said:
but your wrist/hand position is not - it's trying to make up for the lack of the feedback coming from the device itself.
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Fair enough.

galahad2069 said:
As for the dpi/pixel settings, I don't really understand what pixels you are talking about in this context (yeah better mice allow you to change the dpi of the sensor of the mouse, but with no mouse pointer present it makes little sense to speak of pixels IMO). I guess you mean that you use no further software amplification (minimal position of the ingame mouse sensitivity slider)? Something like when you use only analogue zoom on a camera, without adding any digital zoom (which would only "enlarge" the image without being able to bring out more details anyway)?
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Each pixel/dot of movement detected my by the sensor on my mouse is one pixel my mouse cursor moves on my screen because I have the Windows' mouse acceleration (enhance pointer precision) disabled and set to 1:1 sensitivity. If I put my cursor in the middle of my screen, I can move it to precisely the edge and back by moving the mouse the same distance on the pad, irrespective of the speed of movement. In game, with no power slope set, the mouse widget displacement works the same way.
 

galahad2069

G
Morbad said:
Fair enough.



Each pixel/dot of movement detected my by the sensor on my mouse is one pixel my mouse cursor moves on my screen because I have the Windows' mouse acceleration (enhance pointer precision) disabled and set to 1:1 sensitivity. If I put my cursor in the middle of my screen, I can move it to precisely the edge and back by moving the mouse the same distance on the pad, irrespective of the speed of movement. In game, with no power slope set, the mouse widget displacement works the same way.
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Ah, thanks for the clarification, I thought you were talking about the ingame layer of mouse settings. :)
 

WPWW1488

W
Arguendo said:
As Aleksander The Grape explained earlier in the thread, that is not true. The mouse in relative mode auto-centers when you stop moving your hand, and then bringing it back to where it was positioned before the movement (basically centering it) stops the rotation. While the joystick needs to be brought back to the center point before applying opposite direction to stop the rotation. That's quite different tbh.
The real-world equivalent of a joystick working as a mouse in relative mode would be the "dead" stick in the F-16. Basically it doesn't move at all, but sensors pick up pressure applied to it and transfer those. So it is always centered as long as you don't apply pressure to it and that centering is immediate without having to move the stick in the opposite direction. That is how the mouse works; centers when pressure not applied in a direction. All retail joysticks that I know of require a movement to the center. Just stopping movement isn't enough.
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that's fair enough explaitation, now i see the problem. thanks. But anyway while the advantage for mouse is very minimal with relative mouse, the drawback for mouse players without relative mouse is significant.
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Arguendo said:
In FA OFF with Relative Mode M+K is superior to pretty much any joystick setup, due to the accurate control of movement available. Just the way it is.
I believe for most, the feeling of using a joystick is more important to how well they perform in PvP, which is why people choose joysticks. It just feels wrong to use K+M for this game for me, and I expect others as well.
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Yes, for me it's that. When my T.16000 broke I tried KB+M and was immediately better with it in FAoff compared to Hotas - without any training.
But the Immersion with the Hotas was so much better that I ordered a new T.16000 and quit on KB+M as soon as it arrived, although that pretty much throws
my FAoff combat effectiveness out of the window.
 

StiTch

StiTch
Nadreck said:
Part of the problem is that supercruise is FA-On
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This is the main part of it for me - I actually don't have any difficulty flying FA On with relative mouse (might be worth checking if your relative mouse rate is too aggressive, OP).

But for SC it is utter nonsense - should be auto disabled in SC even if we don't get a toggle. It's not some engaging mechanic to balance relative mouse, it's literally just an exercise in, well, over-exercising one's wrist. And some of us have enough of that as it is.

Playing ED, of course.
 
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PeLucheuh

PeLucheuh
StiTch said:
This is the main part of it for me - I actually don't have any difficulty flying FA On with relative mouse (might be worth checking if your relative mouse rate is too aggressive, OP).

But for SC it is utter nonsense - should be auto disabled in SC even if we don't get a toggle. It's not some engaging mechanic to balance relative mouse, it's literally just an exercise in, well, over-exercising one's wrist. And some of us have enough of that as it is.

Playing ED, of course.
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Pro tips (coming from BF4 jet flying) : set a keybind for pitch up in addition to your mouse pitch up axe (mine is spacebar). No more excessive wrist exercise in SC ;)
 
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PeLucheuh

PeLucheuh
StiTch said:
*stares at screen blankly*

I literally cannot believe that never occurred to me before.

Yeah, I'm gonna sit in the corner of shame for the evening.
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Don't be ashamed, i also learned this trick from someone else and it was game changing on BF4 (link) and is working as well in ED.

Please let me know if it helps you :)
 
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galahad2069

G
PeLucheuh said:
Please let me know if it helps you :)
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It surely helped me, thanks for this same advice you gave me ages ago. :)
It even helps a lot when toggling FA back on briefly for tighter turns round the 'roids (I guess you might benefit even more from it because of the pitch-and-roll on mouse style).

But a combined relative mouse + FAoff toggle would be even better. :)
 

PeLucheuh

PeLucheuh
galahad2069 said:
It surely helped me, thanks for this same advice you gave me ages ago. :)
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Glad to read that and thank you.

galahad2069 said:
It even helps a lot when toggling FA back on briefly for tighter turns round the 'roids (I guess you might benefit even more from it because of the pitch-and-roll on mouse style).
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Yes it does :) (video here if you haven't watched it already)

galahad2069 said:
But a combined relative mouse + FAoff toggle would be even better. :)
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100% agreee.
 
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ToCBubbaZanetti

T
jasonbarron said:
Have fun playing with your PS4 controller, Mr. Turnip, but over here in the golden utopia that is home to the PC master race we pride ourselves on having more sophisticated options:)
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Actually, we use FA off with controllers on xbox and PS4 and it's more difficult than 'relative mouse' FA off. What you actually have in your golden utopia is FA off comparable with riding a bike with stabilisers.
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
ToCBubbaZanetti said:
Actually, we use FA off with controllers on xbox and PS4 and it's more difficult than 'relative mouse' FA off. What you actually have in your golden utopia is FA off comparable with riding a bike with stabilisers.
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I guess that explains why console players aren't widely known (or even narrowly known) as being good at it. At least Mr. Turnip has the sense to look for better gear.
 

TheMegaTurnip

Banned
T
jasonbarron said:
I guess that explains why console players aren't widely known (or even narrowly known) as being good at it. At least Mr. Turnip has the sense to look for better gear.
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A poor craftsman blames his tools.

I look forward to the Pc galaxy (Where I will inevitably get mulched for a few weeks) and it's challenges. More experienced players means more to learn and faster improvement.

I still won't use anything but a HOTAS with no Curves though lol. It's already fly-by-wire, but I'm not interested in fly-by-wire-by-wire, which is effectively what these third party addons are.
Ie;Extra flight computers.

And a few of us are pretty good man, some very talented pilots on Ps4. Less people uploading videos though, also we've been around much shorter a time.
 
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jasonbarron

jasonbarron
TheMegaTurnip said:
A poor craftsman blames his tools.

I look forward to the Pc galaxy (Where I will inevitably get mulched for a few weeks) and it's challenges. More experienced players means more to learn and faster improvement.

I still won't use anything but a HOTAS with no Curves though lol. It's already fly-by-wire, but I'm not interested in fly-by-wire-by-wire, which is effectively what these third party addons are.
Ie;Extra flight computers.

And a few of us are pretty good man, some very talented pilots on Ps4. Less people uploading videos though, also we've been around much shorter a time.
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I was mostly being a smart a%%, I know there are good players over on that side of the verse.

Though I do think referring to a mouse as a "third party addon" is kind of amusing.
 
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ToCBubbaZanetti

T
jasonbarron said:
I guess that explains why console players aren't widely known (or even narrowly known) as being good at it. At least Mr. Turnip has the sense to look for better gear.
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In context they are good at it in the same way that a hotas user on the PC generally uses more skill than the (relative) mouse user to fly FA off. At the end of the day, relative mouse changes the effect of flying FA off to the extent that it is too radically different from other play modes, imo.
 
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