Have you ever tried to spot weld with your teeth and fingernails?
Relative Mouse mode
- Thread starter Bortas
- Start date
Have you ever tried to spot weld with your teeth and fingernails?
Au contraire. I may be the best in the world at ramming stationary ships and pounding them with gimballlzzzzz.
More seriously, I do believe if we were given the option to change the sensitivity curve (rather than just deadzone) on gamepads, they would be much less of a handicap. Due to necessity I have put much thought into gamepad usage (although obviously would be 1v1 outclassed by many in this thread regardless of tools). The primary problem IMO is how much less precise they are for fixed aim. Otherwise I feel the other things people commonly consider gamepad disadvantages can be dealt with via creative mapping and lots of git gud.
EDIT - also give all analog inputs the option to be split into increment/decrement axes rather than just single axis; this would allow for more options/utility from the analog triggers (which are by default set to a digital function).
EDIT - also give all analog inputs the option to be split into increment/decrement axes rather than just single axis; this would allow for more options/utility from the analog triggers (which are by default set to a digital function).
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MegaTurnip is extremely skilled and also has used both PC and PS4; few pilots have this perspective.
I think your analogy is excessive.
Aside from the thumbstick precision issue, my opinion on the dominant reasons PS4 pilots are generally worse is exactly what he says; a smaller population and shorter time window in which to improve.
I do suspect KbM to be the best tool for PvP but having not tried it, this is mere speculation. I doubt though it has as large an effect as the sample size and time window.
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That's all well and good, but I'm still not buying the constant ragging going on about relative mouse being an exploit.
You're the one who ragged on my man Turnip slogging out here with me and the other peasants with our gamepads and Thrustmaster 4s.
Don't make me ram you with a crappy conda while typing Zarek propaganda into comms. I increased my DG2 murder rate to 90% last night so you know I can bring the thunder!
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You and Turnip winged up and forum ganking me now!
Yes it does(video here if you haven't watched it already)
After the reaction of, "wow that's some killer flying and I need a few more thousand hours practice", the 2nd thing that strikes me about this video is how much of a handicap headlook is on console.
I use the gyroscope in the DS4 for headlook, but only when very easy or very necessary.
Maintaining that level of input precision on the thumbsticks while also needing to constantly move my arms/wrists around in order to track targets and avoid bumping into rocks would be very tricky. It could be done, but what an uphill battle.
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Same goes for non-mouse axes on PC. The game itself should strive to provide all reasonable options possible, both so that third party utilities aren't necessary and so they can be prohibited, to put people on as level a playing field as possible.
Certainly, and one's tools are often used as a scapegoat for lack of experience or a flawed approach, but tools still matter. The trick is knowing how much, if any, handicap is a result of one's tools, and how to work around such limitations...not to flatly deny the possibility of a handicap, or waste time working through an unassailable limitation, rather than finding an approach more conducive to the tools on hand.
Well there will always be people who are very insecure about their ability with their stick.
It's input-envy, really.
Mouse users would like to have the have the possibility to have the full range of abilities a stick user can potentially achieve. And some stick users fear the competition.
I don't think anyone's trying to say it's an exploit but it does make FA off a bit easier and smoother than other methods, which is kind of evened out by having to use your keyboard to navigate supercruise. I think if FD introduced a toggle to turn relative mouse off, then it would be nice of them to add a similar in game senstitivity/curve funcion to aid hotas and controller users, to even things out a bit.
Agreed on all counts. Gamepads just have a relatively large handicap due to reasons you've pointed out already.
But they have advantages too. It would be much harder for me to type Zarek propaganda into comms if the small desk space I've allocated for gaming had to fit a HOTAS and a keyboard. I also doubt I could do my DG2 jumps from a treadmill using any other tool.
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You guys all think you're so special playing on your HOTAS's/gamepads/mouses & keyboards? Try full FA Off PvP on one of these bad boys and then get back to me about how tough you have it:
I think we can all agree that THAT is just utter and complete exploitative cheating right there.
To illustrate better the analogy between relative mouse and joysticks:
Imagine your joystick would apply thrust in one direction when pulling the lever, but applying thrust in the reverse direction AS SOON AS you pushed the lever in the other direction (meaning immediately, not having to cross center-point). THAT would be "relative joystick". THAT's what gives relative mouse an advantage over HOTAS.
That would basically counteract all thrusts in FA off rotations.
Basically what relative mouse allows is having the EXACT SAME FEELING flying FA off than to non-relative FA on (exact opposite movement to cancel thrust).
Btw remember every other space game featuring some level of decoupling between ship orientation and motion vector has NO Newtonian-like physics on rotations. Evochron, X4, space engineers, star citizen, ... In all of these when you deactivate flight assist your rotations are stopped when you release the stick. Only translations are allowed to drift. The other exception might be Kerbal but that's the whole point of the game (only one of those featuring orbital mechanics as well).
edit: elite also allows for some level of orbiting but seeing the speed is hard capped the body you'd want to orbit around should be very small otherwise your speed would be way smaller than the escape velocity. On very small bodies it's possible to follow a trajectory which will put you in orbit, allowing you to deactivate all engines and basically flying around the body just by orbital motion. There is a video around on YouTube if anyone is interested.
Imagine your joystick would apply thrust in one direction when pulling the lever, but applying thrust in the reverse direction AS SOON AS you pushed the lever in the other direction (meaning immediately, not having to cross center-point). THAT would be "relative joystick". THAT's what gives relative mouse an advantage over HOTAS.
That would basically counteract all thrusts in FA off rotations.
Basically what relative mouse allows is having the EXACT SAME FEELING flying FA off than to non-relative FA on (exact opposite movement to cancel thrust).
Btw remember every other space game featuring some level of decoupling between ship orientation and motion vector has NO Newtonian-like physics on rotations. Evochron, X4, space engineers, star citizen, ... In all of these when you deactivate flight assist your rotations are stopped when you release the stick. Only translations are allowed to drift. The other exception might be Kerbal but that's the whole point of the game (only one of those featuring orbital mechanics as well).
edit: elite also allows for some level of orbiting but seeing the speed is hard capped the body you'd want to orbit around should be very small otherwise your speed would be way smaller than the escape velocity. On very small bodies it's possible to follow a trajectory which will put you in orbit, allowing you to deactivate all engines and basically flying around the body just by orbital motion. There is a video around on YouTube if anyone is interested.
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Now pick a fight with a really good npc.
I was using a head tracking device called : ED tracker during this fight (which i don't use anymore). It was cool but not really needed.
Interesting. Do you just fly without a headlook assist of any sort now? It seemed in that dogfight to really let you maneuver the edges of the asteroids without quite hitting them, and also to track better when your opponent used them for cover.
Doing Core mining - just fa-off boosting through roid fields looking for the glowies - I often use the gyroscope headlook. It's useful but I always want something better.
Seemed it would matter 10x when something was in the roid field shooting back
But I'll defer to your experience on it; could just be wishful thinking on my part.While I love my ED Tracker for immersion, I found it to be almost distracting for aiming fixed weapons in combat. It kind of throws my timing off, not much, but enough that I didn't like it. Also, it requires that your headset be on perfectly aligned on your head at all times, a total non-starter in my house. Alas, the neat little gadget now sit's in a box gathering dust.
Interesting. Do you just fly without a headlook assist of any sort now? It seemed in that dogfight to really let you maneuver the edges of the asteroids without quite hitting them, and also to track better when your opponent used them for cover.
Doing Core mining - just fa-off boosting through roid fields looking for the glowies - I often use the gyroscope headlook. It's useful but I always want something better.
Seemed it would matter 10x when something was in the roid field shooting back
Yeah no more headlook assist anymore short after this fight iirc. It was helping a lot for tracking but not really for maneuvers (it is better, imo, to have a central view to really feel and change your vector). That's why i was using a huge dead zone for freelook with my head tracking device.
edit : 100% agree with Jasonbarron as well.
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