Relative mouse ON on FA-OFF vs HOTAS

[Kyokushin]

At all, playing ED on joy/hotas is not efficient now.

Playing on mouse and kb with relative option ON is just too easy now on flight assist OFF mode.
Aiming from rails or plasmas, or any fixed weapon is just point and click in Flight Assist mode OFF now.

As far i know and readed on design formu a flight assist Off mode was designed for experienced players and required big amount time of training to learn to how to aim precisely in this mode and use advantage on it.

Now balance is broken, becaue Mouse and KB users have this mode easy as piece of cake, and there is no possibility to play on hotas/joystick such efficient like on kb+mouse.

After playing 10 minutes on Kb+mouse i can aim and play more efficient than on hotas after three years and 3000 hours.

IMO playing on kb+mouse in space combat game really sucks in immersion, but fine - not everyone have hotas.

But, please, for a God sake, balance it somehow. Now almost everyone who are playing PvP moved to Mouse and KB, because its much more efficient.

Mu suggestion is:
- to allow to have full reverse throtlle also in flight assist ON mode, it will allow joystick users also use the benefit of flying full speed reverse as mouse users can do it in flight assist mode on, with similar aiming precision.
OR
- remove it from FA OFF on mouse.
- make it easier on joystick somehow, but i do not think so a making things easier everywhere is an good idea, its rather should be harder on mouse+kb.

If i wish to control space with keboard and mouse then i would play EvE.

Update:

 

[Martian Successor]

I'm a HOTAS player so I have no experience of kb+m other than watching videos of players using kb+m in combat. As far as I can see they do seem to have a much easier time of precision aiming with fixed guns while in FA-Off. They don't have to contend with as much drift as a Joystick user has to, which does grant quite the advantage with fixed weapons and FA-Off.

However, on the other hand does a HOTAS not grant superior manouverability because of having access to thruster controls, boost, fire guns, some utilities/silent running, flicking quickly between FA-On/Off and the joystick axis pretty much all at the same time?

 

[Kyokushin]

You can achieve same maneuverability on mouse, ofcourse more precise.

Enemy who is flying FA OFF is much more unpredictable in his flying vector, so even only flying in FA oFF is big combat advantage.
mouse+kb users now got also easy-aim mode.

 

[Madrax573]

Have you tried it? Or are you just getting killed by skilled KB+M users?

I've know plenty of HOTAS pilots that can fight and aim fine with or without FA.

 

[Kyokushin]

I am playing 3 years and 3000 hours on hotas, most of i do is pvp, and now i moved to mouse+kb, because everone in pvp did it, and i can say its ultra-easy mode on FA off now.

I can play more efficient, faster aim and shoot, after few minutes of playing than on hotas after all that time.
Using rail is just point and click. Any fixed weapon is like clikicn an icon on desktop.

Its point and shoot now. No any skill is required to aim on fa OFF. Try mouse with relative ON option, you will see.

Aiming on FA off with relative ON is EASIER now than just flying on mouse without relative.

And other things - interdictions. C'mon, its now completely broken.

 

[Madrax573]

Well to be fair after 3000hrs mate you'd be blooming well skilled regardless of what you are using.

I can assure you that a lot of the newer player ain't finding FA-off with mouse so easy....

 

[Zeeman]

Is this a new thing? Or has it always been there?

Z...

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Is this a new thing? Or has it always been there?

Z...

nothing new

its always been there.

i am a bit confused by this topic, as i havent been able to recreate analog throttle on my keyboard.

 

[Kyokushin]

nothing new

its always been there.

i am a bit confused by this topic, as i havent been able to recreate analog throttle on my keyboard.

Not always, it happened in that year, i just tried it.

Well to be fair after 3000hrs mate you'd be blooming well skilled regardless of what you are using.

I can assure you that a lot of the newer player ain't finding FA-off with mouse so easy....

Surely
It seems you never tried to play on it

If someone who played 3000 hours is telling you its easier, and all best PvPers moved to KB+mouse because of it, then are using rails and plasmas, then you should know a something is going on.

If one person is saying you are the horse, then do not care of it.
If two, then think about it
If three, then buy a saddle.

 

[tafkabb]

I don't see the need for all the drama. HOTAS has had a control advantage over literally everybody for years and nobody got in a flap about it.

 

[Kyokushin]

I don't see the need for all the drama. HOTAS has had a control advantage over literally everybody for years and nobody got in a flap about it.

Never had, mouse+kb and hotas was balanced. Mouse was always more precisious, it was a matter of choice, what player prefer.

Now it is not a choice. Now if you want have same chances then need to use kb+mouse. Period.

P.S.
In fact hotas should give an advantages in space combat/simulator/flying game over mouse+kb.

 

[Aris_]

I don't see the need for all the drama. HOTAS has had a control advantage over literally everybody for years and nobody got in a flap about it.

It is a big deal because they are asking the same argade elements to StarCitizen also



I guess Fdev add that option to get a portion of the clients that play the game without joystick but it undermines the scope of the game eg planes in space and puts a barrier to the top pvp ladder

In order to clear a few thinks resetting with relative mouse is like having faon while you are constantly faoff this means you don't have to correct all the time with opposite force your movement in order to stop your nose on the trg but the setting will do it to a degree itself given the fact that hit scans and rails need pin point accuracy especially for modules you get the rest

pvp in ED is fast if you can aim faster or use faoff to strafe your opponent at max speed then you are the winner

cmdr chris lane youtube video is an indication what k/m constant faoff can do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYTHxZIvlkM

tip: listen what he says in 2:22 about controls

no possible with a hotas and no resetting mechanism plus sensitivity for the upper echelon pvp the gap between hotas and k/m is huge

 

[Kyokushin]

I guess Fdev add that option to get a portion of the clients that play the game without joystick

And in fact a lot of people played without a hotas, and did it well, without a issues. Now they just got easy-aim mode.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Never had, mouse+kb and hotas was balanced. Mouse was always more precisious, it was a matter of choice, what player prefer.

Now it is not a choice. Now if you want have same chances then need to use kb+mouse. Period.

P.S.
In fact hotas should give an advantages in space combat/simulator/flying game over mouse+kb.

can you actually highlight what has changed since the release of the game?
unless you are talking about the only change is that you discovered why some other player are better at constant FA-Off then yourself, even though you thought you are using the state-of-the-art input device?

as far as i can tell, flying FA-On or supercruise is still not enjoable without a workaround

 

[Kyokushin]

can you actually highlight what has changed since the release of the game?
unless you are talking about the only change is that you discovered why some other player are better at constant FA-Off then yourself, even though you thought you are using the state-of-the-art input device?

as far as i can tell, flying FA-On or supercruise is still not enjoable without a workaround

I am not your secretary.
If you want to find release notes then find it by yourself.

This is topic for poeple who know what it is about, both played on hotas and kb+mouse many hours, know what is relative, know when it changed and have experience in fps. If you dont, then do basic research before discussing.

 

[Cheese Steak]

Dear Valve,

I have been playing Counter-Strike for years now. I've always been playing on an Xbox 360 controller, which your game supports on PC. But I recently switched over to playing with a mouse and keyboard. The difference was night and day! The amount of precision I could get out of a mouse, a dedicated tool for aiming a pointer, boggles my mind. But I still prefer to use the controller because I'm much more familiar with it, and much more comfortable with it. I don't think it's fair to have to use a keyboard and mouse in order to even have a chance at winning at high levels.

Valve, please nerf the mouse, such that people who currently use them cannot continue to play at high levels. Please force them to buy a new controller if they don't have one in order to continue to play at levels they previously played at.

I am not your secretary.
If you want to find release notes then find it by yourself.

This is topic for poeple who know what it is about, both played on hotas and kb+mouse many hours, know what is relative, know when it changed and have experience in fps. If you dont, then do basic research before discussing.

I don't think it's his responsibility to make your arguments for you.

 

[Guest104505]

Wait, do I understand correctly that they allegedly improved Keyboard+Mouse aiming and you're unhappy about it because it is now a viable option? :S

 

[Aris_]

Wait, do I understand correctly that they allegedly improved Keyboard+Mouse aiming and you're unhappy about it because it is now a viable option? :S

I would like to see you play dcs or falcon 4 with m/k , oops i forget they are simulators so no easy aim mouse mode, so pity lets see ED is a space simulator last time i checked

 

[Bigskill]

I dont post very Often, but you got my rep. here. I also have around 2500+ hours and beiing playing since day 1, and I fly Hotas, I mostly pvp/pirate and since the first week I keep saying that this m+k thing sucks.
I understand the need of allows everyone to play even with no joystick, but m+k users are so advantaged in faoff, always been like that, and should be the opposite.
I come from a sim life, falcon 4.0, IL2, FSX and DCS, and in any game never have been like ED, absolutely none can be advantaged with m+k for a reason, I understand the need of faoff, but there are external program that can give you a so precise shoot in faoff and fixed weapons that is insane.
I always refused to play a sim with m+k, and will be, I just find it not fair.
Now with this change on a easy hand is almost impossible to compete.
Happy to see Im not the only one here.

 

[Guest104505]

This sounds so wrong. You're basically saying "Stop making the game better for those using different devices than me" instead of asking for an improvement for your own device or something like that.