Did you expect engineers to be removed already, or changed to something different? What do you mean with "in the hype for Starfield" you decided to play it again? To have a negative example for comparison? Or to set the low bar you can judge Starfield on? I'm really curious, please elaborate.
Remove the Engineers
- Thread starter cmdrMateusFaria
- Start date
"I wanted to be able to play exploring, or fighting ships and Thargoid, but without engineers it's impossible to have a good experience."
I would think that many CMDRs would challenge about 2/3rds of this statement.
Although not an explorer, I believe that a good experience can be had in virtually any ship with bought modules.
PvE combat (not thargoid) is I believe good enough with un-engineered modules. You just need to realise that you are not the top fighting machine that can wade into conflicts one shotting enemy ships whilst your shields are only tickled.
PvP and thargoid combat are I believe where engineering matters.
Steve
I would think that many CMDRs would challenge about 2/3rds of this statement.
Although not an explorer, I believe that a good experience can be had in virtually any ship with bought modules.
PvE combat (not thargoid) is I believe good enough with un-engineered modules. You just need to realise that you are not the top fighting machine that can wade into conflicts one shotting enemy ships whilst your shields are only tickled.
PvP and thargoid combat are I believe where engineering matters.
Steve
I think more options to circumvent Engineering, and the associated material grind, would be good. Say via pre-engineered Modules on offer. Now, I'm not talking "best in class" stuff like has been offered as mission rewards / unlocks in the past, but more middle of the road type thing. I.e. a certain Faction can provide the player with a G3 Long Range (for example) FSD as a higher cost. It's like what the Guardian modules offer in some respects. I.e. I could Engineer a far better Power Plant, but the Guardian one is generally good enough, and there's no grind after the initial unlock.
I did find it odd in the game that there's like ONE make of FSD, not models from different manufacturers that have different properties. I mean, we have the grades from A to E for some modules, but that's not really what I'd have liked to see. Plus, they're uniform. I.e. this is CHEAP and rubbish, this is LIGHT and rubbish, this is "ok", this is heavy (tough) and pretty good and this is "the best".
We currently grind materials, level up with Engineers and burn through multiples of materials to reach just a mid-range G3 roll. BORING! I'd rather fly to such and such a faction's space, buy the "better at the thing I want, worse at the thing I don't" version of something and use that.
There are some modules like this in the game already, such as the Enhance Performance Thrusters, which can still be Engineered. While only Class 1 to 3 (IIRC) these are leagues ahead of a regular A-Rated Thruster for the given class. Some of the Power Play reward modules are similar in many ways.
Basically, if you want the ABSOLUTE best in (size) Class for a given item, you'll need to Engineer a regular Module. However, if you are happy with say just a Grade 3 level boost, perhaps a module from one of the "Specialist" Module manufacturers would be all you need. No material grind, no engineers, just a few more credits initial outlay.
This could extend to most module, be it a Manufacturer that produces Efficient weapons, another produces Long Range ones... you get the idea. I'd suggest that such weapons cannot be further engineered, like Guardian Modules.
I think the difference between a "Specialist" module and a full G5 + Experimental rolled Engineered one need not be vast. I'd suggest they'd have maybe 50 to 80% of the headline feature, but with associated down-side(s). I.e. the "Specialist" Long-range FSD, might be able to provide 80% of the Jump Range of the best bespoke Engineered FSD, but it's a bit heavier, a bit hotter (more power), more delicate etc. etc. There needs to be trade offs. I think there are those who will still want the "best of the best" and Engineer to their exact requirements. Great, that option is available to all. However, those after a better option without Engineering should have them in the form of "Specialist" modules available from certain places in the bubble.
Note: when Engineering was first introduced, I was generally more than happy with a basic G3 roll. Back then that used just ONE lot of materials, not three plus as it does now. Having "ready to buy" modules that provided that, but couldn't be Engineered any further, would be great.
Basically, another way to get a proportion of the benefits of Engineering, with out all the associated faff. I'd love that.
I did find it odd in the game that there's like ONE make of FSD, not models from different manufacturers that have different properties. I mean, we have the grades from A to E for some modules, but that's not really what I'd have liked to see. Plus, they're uniform. I.e. this is CHEAP and rubbish, this is LIGHT and rubbish, this is "ok", this is heavy (tough) and pretty good and this is "the best".
We currently grind materials, level up with Engineers and burn through multiples of materials to reach just a mid-range G3 roll. BORING! I'd rather fly to such and such a faction's space, buy the "better at the thing I want, worse at the thing I don't" version of something and use that.
There are some modules like this in the game already, such as the Enhance Performance Thrusters, which can still be Engineered. While only Class 1 to 3 (IIRC) these are leagues ahead of a regular A-Rated Thruster for the given class. Some of the Power Play reward modules are similar in many ways.
Basically, if you want the ABSOLUTE best in (size) Class for a given item, you'll need to Engineer a regular Module. However, if you are happy with say just a Grade 3 level boost, perhaps a module from one of the "Specialist" Module manufacturers would be all you need. No material grind, no engineers, just a few more credits initial outlay.
This could extend to most module, be it a Manufacturer that produces Efficient weapons, another produces Long Range ones... you get the idea. I'd suggest that such weapons cannot be further engineered, like Guardian Modules.
I think the difference between a "Specialist" module and a full G5 + Experimental rolled Engineered one need not be vast. I'd suggest they'd have maybe 50 to 80% of the headline feature, but with associated down-side(s). I.e. the "Specialist" Long-range FSD, might be able to provide 80% of the Jump Range of the best bespoke Engineered FSD, but it's a bit heavier, a bit hotter (more power), more delicate etc. etc. There needs to be trade offs. I think there are those who will still want the "best of the best" and Engineer to their exact requirements. Great, that option is available to all. However, those after a better option without Engineering should have them in the form of "Specialist" modules available from certain places in the bubble.
Note: when Engineering was first introduced, I was generally more than happy with a basic G3 roll. Back then that used just ONE lot of materials, not three plus as it does now. Having "ready to buy" modules that provided that, but couldn't be Engineered any further, would be great.
Basically, another way to get a proportion of the benefits of Engineering, with out all the associated faff. I'd love that.
Just play something else and remember not to buy games before they are finished.l
That is a flaw in the vanilla game design. Engineers is neither fun, compelling nor satisfying. It is simply just a time waster to bloat player logins. Do you also pay money to someone to mow your lawn?
Maybe his first bethesda game...?I love the fact the OP thinks Starfield - a BETHESDA game - won't have incredible amounts of gameplay/grind. Must have never played one of their games
I believe that some of those not happy with the engineering "grind" would still find the pre-engineered modules that might be bought still unsatisfactory. They would still want the best of the best less the "grind"
Steve
I never understand this type of rants.
Without engineering you can hit max 40 range (not counting fsd booster)
With them you can boost it to let's say 80.
Conclusion? Remove engineers, because without it my travel will be better
Just don't do it if you don't want, or move to other games.
Have a nice day.
PS: noone force you to make full upgrades of all modules, it is something with playing "smart", not grinding hard. I know, for some people it is impossible.
Without engineering you can hit max 40 range (not counting fsd booster)
With them you can boost it to let's say 80.
Conclusion? Remove engineers, because without it my travel will be better
Just don't do it if you don't want, or move to other games.
Have a nice day.
PS: noone force you to make full upgrades of all modules, it is something with playing "smart", not grinding hard. I know, for some people it is impossible.
Well, if Starfield is anything like Skyrim (and based on an old trailer showing our protagonist exercisising his digital lockpcking skills, it seems it will do):
Please do come back and tell us how long did it take and how much did you grind (pun intented) to max your equivalent Smithing skills
Also how much time and how many digital lockpicks did you waste to get to 100 in digital-lockpicking
This is issue of people like you- for you everything is about "because I HAVE TO log more often and play more".
Meanwhile I never grinded engi mats, and I always have more than I would need. Yesterday when I blasted pirates I gathered literally 0 encoded mats.
Because for WHOLE TIME I had info about full storage
Tell us more, how bad and grindy it is, I will wait, and in the meantime I will play.
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No, Engineers are the Elite Dangerous version of Minecraft Enchanting mixed with a little crafting.
OP; if you just originally continued to play the game and gathered mats as you went along without hurrying to unlock the engineers you most likely would have nearly everything you need apart from what might need to be traded via a material trader. I know that might seem odd but that's the way I've played and it hasn't seemed like a grind to me hardly at all, apart from a couple of specific scenarios that had to be repeated a few times, and even then I did enough till I was done, moved on and came back for more when I felt I needed to again. I have multiple ships G5 drives etc.. the needed Guardian stuff and Maelstrom gear all unlocked too. I haven't begun with the onfoot engineers hardly, again, no rush, but I'll get to it and the pre-modded weapons that can be found in Pioneer Stores have given me a head start. o7
When they were first introduced I wasn't on that path, and didn't know much about it. I wanted to still do these missions that had engineering mat rewards. Back then it didn't grey out these things, if you didn't have space in your bin you couldn't do the mission so I would dump exquisite focus crystals constantly just to be able to run these missions. When I decided to engineer my modules, I only had to grab a few things like the meta alloys for unlocks and such. Rarely did I go looking for mats.This is issue of people like you- for you everything is about "because I HAVE TO log more often and play more".
Meanwhile I never grinded engi mats, and I always have more than I would need. Yesterday when I blasted pirates I gathered literally 0 encoded mats.
Because for WHOLE TIME I had info about full storage
Tell us more, how bad and grindy it is, I will wait, and in the meantime I will play.
These days I am fully engineered on all ships but I like to gather mats still, it seems like free stuff to me so I take limpets along and farm them when I am in systems that produce HGEs or anarchy systems where I can kill clean ships and gather harder to find stuffs.
I wish I could dump materials on my carrier and after a thousand or so of each, I could engineer my carrier's jump range or fuel usage.
I'm sorry, did you say unengineered ship to a High CZ or Thargoid CZ?
07
Why not? Not like its impossible lol.
Tried that, challenging, but possible.
Next "things impossible without engineering" please.
Pirate threat 6+ USS
or Wing Pirate leader - the ones with a FDL an 2-3 Engineered Vultures.
Those are nasty, but nevertheless, not everything has to be doable at noob/nonengineered level and there is plenty of content that is perfectly doable with no engineering at all