Removing rammers

but if you ever see me near a station, I advise moving, as I'm a bit like a tennage driver
I bought a large ship to grow some patience and do less of that. Made things worse.

The problem is how does the game know that it's them ramming you rather than you ramming them?

The near-station rule that the one doing under 100m/s is being rammed is okay but would leave you a sitting duck for guns if you tried it away from a station.
What happens when an NPC rams me from behind, inside a station? Do I get fined, or does the game detect that and I don't get fined? I came across this issue sometimes, but I don't remember what happens.
 
Station ramming is an exploit, and its users are cheaters... full stop.

I block and report whenever I see someone doing it. It’s no different than combat logging.

As @FalconFly said, FDev has tried to stop it with various updates. I suspect that they just don’t know how.

< braces self for inevitable wave of players trying to justify their abuse of what is clearly an unintended loophole / AKA: an exploit 🍿 >
I enjoy speeding through the mail slot, on rare occasions I may have clipped another ship. Definitely not on purpose, but biowaste happens sometimes.

How do you know if people do it on purpose (besides if they do it repeatedly)?
 
Ramming is a legitimate combat tactic. However, what's known as "station ramming" is an exploit: ramming near a station in a small, weak ship that doesn't survive the ram, so that the target becomes a "murderer" and gets blown up by the station.

The target must be travelling in excess of the 100m/s speed limit to be considered guilty by the station, so a slow approach is one solution (beware of attempts to push you above the speed limit). The target is also not-guilty if under docking-computer control (even when speeding), but as the DC disengages when under attack, a station-rammer will typically open fire just before impact.

FDev should modify the DC so that it doesn't disengage unless the user takes damage from the station (or NPC station security), no player should be able to force another player's DC offline.

Until then: block and report. Doubtful if FDev with act, but if you were using a DC, remember to include a complaint that it went offline when it wasn't supposed to.
 
How can it be an exploit, when you simply don't speed to avoid any penalties?
Is it shoddy, naughty behaviour? Yes.
An exploit? No way. Don't speed criminal scum.

That's the problem this game has. It has rules, but people don't like to adhere to them and then cry foul when they have to
face the consequences. That's why no C&P will ever stop gankers from being gankers, because they adapt and learn.
But it will have consequences for everyone, and then the moaning starts anew.
Many rammers use throwaway ships to chip away at health, push people over speed limit, “herd” newbies, etc.

Is it easy to avoid? Yes of course. That doesn’t mean it’s not a loophole.
How do you know if people do it on purpose (besides if they do it repeatedly)?
I only block the really obvious ones... ie repeatedly and clearly targeting a specific ship.

Biowaste happens, as you say. But watching two or three Cobras trying to “herd” some poor newbie in an Asp is pretty easy to spot. :D

Edit: bad copy paste.
 
Many rammers use throwaway ships to chip away at health, push people over speed limit, “herd” newbies, etc.

Is it easy to avoid? Yes of course. That doesn’t mean it’s not a loophole.


I only block the really obvious ones... ie repeatedly and clearly targeting a specific ship.

Biowaste happens, as you say. But watching two or three Cobras trying to “herd” some poor newbie in an Asp is pretty easy to spot. :D

Edit: bad copy paste.
Fair enough. I usually am wary of Sidewinders in places like Jameson's, but I myself enjoy flying one now and then so yeah.

Got to say it happened to me extremely rarely to run into station rammers, although when in large and slow ships I tend to stick to the speed limit.
 
so there is a small player base that rams other with their ship to avoid being a criminal. Is their any updates coming to avoid this? even something as small as the same fine as bumping another vessel while speeding in or out of a station. just wondering.
I have not played "World of Tanks" for a fair while but they used give a penalty to the tank that was moving the fastest. Occasionally the wrong players would be penalised but generally the culprit was the one going faster.
 
Station ramming is an exploit, and its users are cheaters... full stop.

I block and report whenever I see someone doing it. It’s no different than combat logging.

As @FalconFly said, FDev has tried to stop it with various updates. I suspect that they just don’t know how.

< braces self for inevitable wave of players trying to justify their abuse of what is clearly an unintended loophole / AKA: an exploit 🍿 >
If station ramming were an exploit, the easiest way to address it would be to disable collision damage around stations. Evidently Frontier doesn't want that. Instead they went out of their way to create a set of rules to both keep station ramming a thing while adding consequences to it. Also the100m/s speed limit, below which you are exempt from any culpability if you ram somebody (100m/s being low enough that all parties involved have time enough to get out of each other's way), exists specifically to avoid the actual exploit that would otherwise be used, whereby you could take a cheap throwaway ship and ram yourself to death onto another player's much bigger and expensive ship to cause them to become wanted (and get instagibbed by the station).
 
If station ramming were an exploit, the easiest way to address it would be to disable collision damage around stations. Evidently Frontier doesn't want that. Instead they went out of their way to create a set of rules to both keep station ramming a thing while adding consequences to it. Also the100m/s speed limit, below which you are exempt from any culpability if you ram somebody (100m/s being low enough that all parties involved have time enough to get out of each other's way), exists specifically to avoid the actual exploit that would otherwise be used, whereby you could take a cheap throwaway ship and ram yourself to death onto another player's much bigger and expensive ship to cause them to become wanted (and get instagibbed by the station).
Disabling collision damage around stations would be unrealistic and wide-open to abuse (players shunting other ships around for the lulz, inconvenient even if they aren't doing damage). I wouldn't expect them to do that.

It's an exploit that is roughly comparable to the real-life insurance scam where a motorist swerves in front of you and slams on the brakes to deliberately cause a collision. Technically, in a rear-end shunt, the one at the back is generally at fault for "travelling too fast to brake" and "failing to allow sufficient space between himself and the car in front": the scammer is trying to exploit that rule.

Clearly FDev have made some attempt to stop it. Not just the speed limit, but also the exemption for using the Docking Computer at the time of collision. As I see it, that's the main problem. The DC keeps you below the speed limit in the mailslot and within the station, but always exceeds the speed limit on approach to the station: the user has no control over this. The exemption would solve this problem if it wasn't for the cheater's ability to knock it offline before impact (at least I assume they still can, but I haven't tested it).

If you lost a ship to a station-rammer while flying manually and speeding, then you were at least partially responsible. But if it happened while the DC was in control (until just before impact), I think it would be fair to report the cheat and get a restoration of your ship, until this loophole is fixed (if indeed it still hasn't been).
 
Two points; this game is more like real life than most think and secondly, any attempt to add safety will inevitably remove (unintended consequence) an element of freedom. I have been rammed inside a station by a team of gankers (wing of 2) while in my fully loaded Combat Trade Cutter. I knew who they were, what they were doing and while I knew not to fire I did (emotional override of logic) and learned to the tune of 53M crs to get better at F/A Off. Gankers are like insurance fraud bandits you meet on the way to work, if you don't drive defensively, maintain your reaction distance and situational awareness, you'll lose real money and learn again life really is not fair. 4 year of flying, last 2 in open I think FDev is living up their name - Elite is Dangerous and you can fly your way; that really does make this game interesting. As noted in the above posts the options to block specific players and fly solo gives the optional safer kinder gaming experience, well don FDev. Still working on my F/A Off skills, but there are two pilots on my friends list who will show me, eventually, yet another way to have fun in the not to distant future. o7 Cmdrs, fly fast, be dangerous and above all have fun-your way.
 
if you do it in a sidewinder with no shields and nothing to lose, bounty and notoriety are non-issues.
Hang on, so I'm confused.

I thought the Op was talking about being killed by rammers.... for which there is penalties.

Is this instead the old "I'm breaking the law by speeding, and someone deliberately pancakes me, making me a criminal for murder?".... sooo.... don't speed?

Or are they being killed by disposable sideys... in which case what the heck paper is the victim ship made of??
 
Hang on, so I'm confused.

I thought the Op was talking about being killed by rammers.... for which there is penalties.

Is this instead the old "I'm breaking the law by speeding, and someone deliberately pancakes me, making me a criminal for murder?".... sooo.... don't speed?

Or are they being killed by disposable sideys... in which case what the heck paper is the victim ship made of??

I guess it just derailed, as usually :)
 
Because it annoys my friends - I don't do it to players I don't know! But sometimes it is needed to, in combat situations, but only in a big old bus!

I bought a large ship to grow some patience and do less of that. Made things worse.
Exactly the same here - now I get a creepy satisfaction from doing it in my corvette!


I should note though for clarity that I don't go around doing this to random players for purposes of griefing or othering them. I just do it to wingmates to try and be annoying when they least expect it, or to NPC ships in combat, where it is a really useful way to stop them.

The Hat :)
 
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