Repeat the same Guardian unlock 18 times? Really?

[Rafe Zetter]

The only explanation I can think of is that the design team has very little experience with mmos and open world game (both as designers and gamers) other than one or two f2p grindtropouloses and they are basing their design decisions (perhaps subconsciously) off of emulating those games, instead of thinking through their designs from a perspective of "how can we make the game the most fun for the players."

Which is why this game feels like it was designed to make you want to buy currency and booster micro-transactions, even though they aren't in the game.

You might be onto something here - because of something I read about FDev elsewhere.

FDev were recently awarded what amounted to "student and graduate employer of the year".

I've also read elsewhere from the mouths of anonymous employees that FDev has a habit of employing the "cheapest" staff - and by cheapest I mean those who are willing to accept lower than the going rates for each type of staff - coders / modellers etc etc.

Couple lower salaries with "student / graduate employer of the year" and what you have is mostly young staff who's personal gaming exposure is the MMO / microtrans / quick reward grindfests of the last 15 years.

Unfortunately a lot of us remember the halcyon days when computer games were all about THE EXPERIENCE, and when we were more than happy to follow a quest thread / storyline that might take 200 hours to final completion - and some games like final fantasy VII, 200 hours was nowhere near enough to do EVERYTHING.

I know ED isn't an RPG - but it does still have that "open play" form but once you've stepped more than 20 feet off the main path, there's nothing much else.

And I do honestly think that part of that is down to the game's designers age and lack of experience - and sadly it's not really being helped by DB who is clearly not laying down the path we might expect of somone who was at the very forefront of computer gaming and has lived through all the years when other open form games like Baldurs Gate and Ultima ruled.

I'm not for a minute suggesting ED becomes an rpg - although the engineers certainly has quite a lot of that flavor - but there are certainly a great many gaming content lessons that could be learned from the games of pre 2003.

There was a reason why so many people asked for an official server for WoW vanilla and it wasn't because of the nostalgia - it's because the vanilla wow version was built by gamers who had been making games during those gaming golden days when it was all about THE EXPERIENCE and not about the grind or the microtrans.

Baldurs Gate - Diablo 1 & 2, Ultima online and their ilk (and Eve Online later) all showed that if you get the content right - players will happilly, WILLINGLY devote thousands of hours to it with no forced grind required.

It's sadly a message clearly lost on DB, Sandro and his staff.

The biggest question I would have is - "am I OK with this design choice - would I be more than happy to devote my limited 2 hours per night of gaming to doing it".

It seems clear most of the staff at FDev think - "yes I am ok with it" - or "I'm not ok with it, but this is my first job in the gaming industry so I'm going to keep my mouth shut (and do as I'm told)".

Peter Molyneux and John Romero - PLEASE come back, all is forgiven.

 

[El_Hefe]

What worries me about this is that 3.0 was supposed to be the start of a revamp of core mechanics and gameplay,but now we have seen how this looks i get the feeling this revamp will be just more of the same just in a different dress.

Why o why did theu say "We respect your time" then release stuff like this.

I mean even look at wing missions,there was no vision there,just solo missions for multiple players that just take longer. Not even a new mission type!!

Something tells me Beyond will come and go and the core of the game is not gonna be in much better shape. And the more stuff like the guardian grind that pops up the more i believe it.

 

[wakko151]

Yeah.... I'm not going to do that. That is a really bad mechanic.
I think the devs will have a meeting about that and eventually decide this must change.
If not, well... then I for one will certainly never have Guardian weapons and modules.

I have heard rumors that the Guardian items are useless.

What worries me about this is that 3.0 was supposed to be the start of a revamp of core mechanics and gameplay,but now we have seen how this looks i get the feeling this revamp will be just more of the same just in a different dress.

Why o why did theu say "We respect your time" then release stuff like this.

I mean even look at wing missions,there was no vision there,just solo missions for multiple players that just take longer. Not even a new mission type!!

Something tells me Beyond will come and go and the core of the game is not gonna be in much better shape. And the more stuff like the guardian grind that pops up the more i believe it.

I have to agree. The idea that they decided to work for months on this content is insulting. Here is one new objective, repeat it 20+ times and get items that are not worth having. Its hard to imagine they "respect our time" when they add in content that is an obvious grind with not much thought put into it for equipment you will never use.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Or not do them at all like me. Nobody forces you to get the guardian tech and there is no need when the current engineered stuff is better. Do them once for the experience then leave.

"Just dont do the poorly designed parts" is a terrible defense. Either come up with arguments why the current state is good, or advocate for change. And they actually unlock unique stuff like the FSD booster that you cant get any other way either.

Advocating change in the game isn't what Max does. - I'm almost amazed he actually used the phrase "poorly designed parts", AFAIK that's about the closest he's ever come to a negative comment about the game; but I think even he knows when a content aspect is undefendable.

Sleut - I can't work you out - but for now, the enemy of my enemy and all that....

(but it could be a ruse - it's a ruse isn't it a triple double agent)

 

[Canoe]

I looked at the forums too late it seems!! Wish I read all of these posts before I came out to the Guardian sites to get myself some blueprints for the new modules. I was mostly looking forward to getting the FSD booster if and when then fix it but happened to land at the ruins that only give out the weapon blueprints and after 8 times re-logging to activate pylons and scan the orb, I am not sure if I can do it again!! Another 10 times of the same thing!!

Initially I was very impressed by the scene of the ruins, the sounds and graphics are amazing. Having to repeat exactly the same thing over and over and over..... is got be broken. I can not believe that FD meant for it to be done like this. Here's hoping that someone holds their hands up and agrees that it was a genuine mistake and comes up with a fix.

The chances of anyone in Design, (assuming there's more than just one person.. ) coming forward and acknowledging this thread is exactly zero. The mantra of "We don't want to waste your time" will continue to be spouted, while at the same time continuing the absolute farce that is mission design choices like this. It defies belief. Does ANYONE at FD actually PLAY their own game?

 

[Jimmy Joe]

At least that would mean they had some fiscally orientated talent.

How true...

 

[Dibbler8]

Iam an oldish gamer ( 51 ) Winst a bit there done wow for years and all the battlefield stuff had all the PlayStations sega megadrives Sinclair's spectrum's even the original elite back in the day . Watched the stream were Sandro said ' we value your time ' goodgreif if that is not the most hippocritical statement of the year when you then ask no tell your players to then do the exact same thing 18 times over.l don't know I don't grind just play bit of this bit of that yaknow but I could use the fsd booster on my vette but iam getting a bit peed off with the naff gameplay to get stuff...wow actual feel a little better after the rant

 

[Jimmy Joe]

Iam an oldish gamer ( 51 ) Winst a bit there done wow for years and all the battlefield stuff had all the PlayStations sega megadrives Sinclair's spectrum's even the original elite back in the day . Watched the stream were Sandro said ' we value your time ' goodgreif if that is not the most hippocritical statement of the year when you then ask no tell your players to then do the exact same thing 18 times over.l don't know I don't grind just play bit of this bit of that yaknow but I could use the fsd booster on my vette but iam getting a bit peed off with the naff gameplay to get stuff...wow actual feel a little better after the rant

now now we not old just mature.

 

[Jimmy Joe]

im curious to see with what kind of reaction Fdevs will come regarding this topic..

 

[Enderby]

http://iskonno.ru/three_monkeys/glossary/i/planet_of_the_apes_three_monkeys.jpg

I doubt they will bat an eyelid, they know, better than us, what great game design they gifted to us.

 

[Genus]

The chances of anyone in Design, (assuming there's more than just one person.. ) coming forward and acknowledging this thread is exactly zero.

There will be a cheeky little segway on one of the Live Feeds between Ed and Sandro. They'll pretend to recognise the issue, promise to address the "way the storyline has been implemented" and then go on to give a nervous giggle, twitch the cuddly toy and bury all mention of it in the backlog.

To be honest, I'm more interested in when they're going to fix the Passenger Missions, rather than subject myself to ill informed opinions from people who are put in front of the cameras but obviously have no power and little influence to actually change things for the better.

Put the people who make these decisions on the Live Feed and make me believe they're sorry.

We'll go from there.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Sleut - I can't work you out - but for now, the enemy of my enemy and all that....

Oh, its simple: I like a lot about ED, am super impressed by some parts, not very happy about others and occassionally simply baffled and lost for words why FD thinks certain ideas are good.

The guardian unlock grind falls squarely in the latter category.

 

[jasonbirder]

Put the people who make these decisions on the Live Feed and make me believe they're sorry

You do realise this is a Computer game (essentially disposable entertainment...like a film or a CD) which you paid a trivial amount of money for...right?

 

[Baton]

As I put my voice in this thread earlier let me add that: one thing I am sure of, raise your concerns in civilised manner, and someone may listen to you, make it a pss taking show, and it will be just that.

Baton out

 

[Enderby]

As I put my voice in this thread earlier let me add that: one thing I am sure of, raise your concerns in civilised manner, and someone may listen to you, make it a pss taking show, and it will be just that.

Baton out

Yeah cheers mate.

 

[Genus]

You do realise this is a Computer game (essentially disposable entertainment...like a film or a CD) which you paid a trivial amount of money for...right?

I do not consider the cost trivial. I do however, ponder when it will become good value.

 

[Enderby]

I do not consider the cost trivial. I do however, ponder when it will become good value.

Right!

We shouldn't mind if it turns out to be a bit rubbish?

 

[Genus]

Baton out

Not in front of the kids.

Right!

We shouldn't mind if it turns out to be a bit rubbish?

Apparently so. Even worse...purposefully implementing a second rate design to deliver on targets and generate revenues for investment plans, then managing the community into thinking there's always something brilliant around the corner. It's risky, someone might notice what they are wading through, even if it does look pretty and sound amazing.

Just listen to those Wellington Boots squeak on the marble floors.

 

[Drelthar]

Still not a peep from the folks who designed this silliness.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

I was reading about the life of one of the most decorated RAF pilots in WW2 recently — and he seems to have died in the end because he flew a plane he wasn’t familiar with.

This is similar to another comment someone else made.

Discontinuity of team members during a games production always leads to problems, and I have a personal theory that the people who developed ED 1.0 are not the same as who are working on 3.0.

Even with Sandro being "lead designer", plonking a new guy down in front of someone elses code will always lead to discontinuity - Sit 100 people in a room and ask them to draw you a car and you'll get 100 different drawings of a car.

The english phrase "too many cooks" is pretty accurate when looking at how some things are implemented in ED.

Years from now we might learn what's been going on at FDev.