Revisit the idea of instantaneous transfers

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
When faced with a ship transfer delay it dissuades me from playing. The excuse of “go do something else in the meantime” doesn’t work for me as the thing I want to play at now requires the ship I have to wait for.

More and more I find myself playing other games, and scratching my Cobra MkIII-shaped itch with the originals.
Given that ship transfer was not possible when the game launched, that then begs the question: why is the delay on ship transfer considered to be an impediment to playing now that ship transfer is possible at all - when it was not possible for the first year and a bit of the game's lifespan?
 
It's amazing we have any kind of ship and module transfers. Waiting for it to be completed is not so bad.

I just want to know, with such technology, why don't we have teleporters? We are more than a 1000 years in the future from Star Trek, and they had teleporters!

Sorry, I digress. :sneaky:
You teleport from the blue circle to your seat, and everyone pitches a fit if you dare to ask for anything else.
 
Given that ship transfer was not possible when the game launched, that then begs the question: why is the delay on ship transfer considered to be an impediment to playing now that ship transfer is possible at all - when it was not possible for the first year and a bit of the game's lifespan?
Back when the game launched I only had my Cobra MkIII - thanks to my pledge level rewards. I was unable to play for most of the first year due to being at sea (the loss of offline really upset me back then).

I voted for instant transfers when they became a thing, and now with a variety of specialised ships I find myself either having to spend the time jumping back to Shin Dez to pick them up (and jumping back to my original location) so I can do the activity I want to do, or, you know, spend that 30 minutes blasting Tie Fighters and having loads of VR fun in XWVM (my current blast from the past updated for the modern era) 😁

It's very often feasible to plan ahead around these things, it's part of the game strategy I enjoy.
Please don't rob me of that
Make it expensive for an instant 3D printed replica of your existing distant ship, or cheap to have it transferred at the existing slow rate.
 
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For what it is worth, I don't really use ship transfer much. Maybe I am not the typical player, I don't know.

Most of my ships are just able to travel where I want to play. If they aren't, or if I want to play in an area further from my current position and it is likely I want to change ships there or I plan to stay longer, I move my carrier.

The only instance I really use transfers is when buying hulls - fly to the selling place, buy the hull and possibly the modules I need, store it, fly back to my carrier, transfer the new hull and outfit it on my carrier. Or alternatively, fly the new ship back and transfer the ship used for the shopping trip.
 
why is the delay on ship transfer considered to be an impediment to playing now that ship transfer is possible at all - when it was not possible for the first year and a bit of the game's lifespan?
Partly because after the first year of the game there was a big move towards encouraging specialisation of ship builds.
- enough mining equipment that a core miner and laser miner generally require two separate ships (or one very big one)
- higher-end combat scenarios that aren't really designed for multiroles, and also an increasing differentiation between "endurance" and "kill one big thing" combat builds
- engineering in general making modules less interchangeable / "just buy a new one when you get there"
- on the AX side different builds desirable for at least combat, sampling, Titan rescues and Titan destruction
- even cargo missions generally require a much larger tonnage than they did in those days, so multirole mission runners are trickier
- more recently, various things like Powerplay 2 or Colonisation with big progress bars balanced around "optimal" builds, so using the "wrong" ship is often very ineffective.

Partly because there's also more encouragement to move around a lot
- Engineers only available in very specific places (a good set of pinned blueprints helps, of course)
- development of out-of-bubble settlement
- more recently, a much bigger bubble with Colonisation

Partly because Fleet Carriers essentially do give near-instant ship transfer (for longer in-bubble distances, barely slower than flying there and back yourself) and move your entire fleet and all your spare parts at the same time, so the existing ship transfer has gone from being "the only practical way to do this" to "really very clunky compared with a Carrier".
- sure, this can be viewed as "look, eventually you'll have 5B credits and can get both convenient transfers and the ability to annoy other players just by existing" and all part of Elite's "starts off really hard, gets easier as you go along" difficulty curve.
- but it is certainly notable that the number of threads requesting instant transfers did drop off substantially once Carriers were released...



(Me, I don't care as such, I generally fly one ship and if I come across something that ship can't do, I solve the problem by not doing it because everything is optional. Transfers get scheduled for while I'm not playing the game so are effectively instant anyway.)
 
the thing I want to play at now requires the ship I have to wait for.
With all respect, that sounds like a personal problem. I'm not known as a person who has a surplus of patience (especially for things that needlessly delay things), but even I understand the virtues of having patience and being able to plan ahead—and the pitfalls of instant gratification. Sometimes you just have to slow down, enjoy the view and smell the ashes🙂

There are two sayings that I try to live by. One from my Granny, who always emphasized that "Wants are the kingdom of Heaven" and another from my military training where one instructor loved to say "If your head doesn't work, then your legs will"🙃 (there's also the "This machine doesn't have a brain; use your own!" whenever I need to work with something that can kill or maim either the operator or a bystander)
 
Given that ship transfer was not possible when the game launched, that then begs the question: why is the delay on ship transfer considered to be an impediment to playing now that ship transfer is possible at all - when it was not possible for the first year and a bit of the game's lifespan?
Sometimes I think they should've kept the original idea of only one ship at a time. Wouldn't have to worry about transfer then. ;)
 
You teleport from the blue circle to your seat, and everyone pitches a fit if you dare to ask for anything else.
For the record, I am still quite upset with that solution. Having us actually enter our ships through those airlocks, then heading into a lift taking is to the cockpit where we step out and to our seat should have been the bare minimum. Saves the trouble of creating full interiors but would remove the black screen silliness.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Partly because after the first year of the game there was a big move towards encouraging specialisation of ship builds.
- enough mining equipment that a core miner and laser miner generally require two separate ships (or one very big one)
- higher-end combat scenarios that aren't really designed for multiroles, and also an increasing differentiation between "endurance" and "kill one big thing" combat builds
- engineering in general making modules less interchangeable / "just buy a new one when you get there"
- on the AX side different builds desirable for at least combat, sampling, Titan rescues and Titan destruction
- even cargo missions generally require a much larger tonnage than they did in those days, so multirole mission runners are trickier
- more recently, various things like Powerplay 2 or Colonisation with big progress bars balanced around "optimal" builds, so using the "wrong" ship is often very ineffective.

Partly because there's also more encouragement to move around a lot
- Engineers only available in very specific places (a good set of pinned blueprints helps, of course)
- development of out-of-bubble settlement
- more recently, a much bigger bubble with Colonisation

Partly because Fleet Carriers essentially do give near-instant ship transfer (for longer in-bubble distances, barely slower than flying there and back yourself) and move your entire fleet and all your spare parts at the same time, so the existing ship transfer has gone from being "the only practical way to do this" to "really very clunky compared with a Carrier".
- sure, this can be viewed as "look, eventually you'll have 5B credits and can get both convenient transfers and the ability to annoy other players just by existing" and all part of Elite's "starts off really hard, gets easier as you go along" difficulty curve.
- but it is certainly notable that the number of threads requesting instant transfers did drop off substantially once Carriers were released...



(Me, I don't care as such, I generally fly one ship and if I come across something that ship can't do, I solve the problem by not doing it because everything is optional. Transfers get scheduled for while I'm not playing the game so are effectively instant anyway.)
Somewhat mitigated by increased jump ranges for ships following the introduction of ship and module transfer in Oct'2016, i.e. Guardian FSBs in Feb'18 and SCO FSDs in May'24.

Regarding Carriers, while the ability to move a number of ships and modules at the same time was introduced with Carriers in Jun'20, it's not instant (15 minutes absolute minimum for each up to 500LY jump), it quite often takes much longer than that when Galactic Traffic Control is maxed out in terms of CMDR requests to relocate their Carrier.

I would be unsurprised if the upcoming Squadron Carriers will enjoy longer range per jump than existing Carriers.
 
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With all respect, that sounds like a personal problem. I'm not known as a person who has a surplus of patience (especially for things that needlessly delay things), but even I understand the virtues of having patience and being able to plan ahead—and the pitfalls of instant gratification. Sometimes you just have to slow down, enjoy the view and smell the ashes🙂

There are two sayings that I try to live by. One from my Granny, who always emphasized that "Wants are the kingdom of Heaven" and another from my military training where one instructor loved to say "If your head doesn't work, then your legs will"🙃 (there's also the "This machine doesn't have a brain; use your own!" whenever I need to work with something that can kill or maim either the operator or a bystander)
I play flight sims in VR that involve extended transit periods and even driven round an entire planet in Elite in the SRV, so I hope I don’t get tarred as an instant gratification player 😁

Having said that, I still want instant ship transfers because the current model is cutting into my limited gaming time, on the rare occasions I find myself playing Elite and wanting to do something a bit specialised.

My favourite saying from my time in the military: “If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - you obviously haven’t grasped the seriousness of the situation😂
 
Somewhat mitigated by increased jump ranges for ships following the introduction of ship and module transfer in Oct'2016, i.e. Guardian FSBs in Feb'18 and SCO FSDs in May'24.
Yes, certainly. Though the point of ship transfer is primarily to move the shorter-ranged stuff, which might not have room for a Guardian booster and won't benefit more than marginally from SCO FSDs being faster in hyperspace too.

Regarding Carriers, while the ability to move a number of ships and modules at the same time was introduced with Carriers in Jun'20, it's not instant (15 minutes absolute minimum for each up to 500LY jump),
A single 500 LY jump will get you almost anywhere-to-anywhere within the original bubble and also a bunch of the newer systems, though, and the ability (unlike transfers) to schedule that jump without needing to already be at the destination system (or even anywhere near the carrier, or docked at all) makes it much easier to place that 15 minutes without generating dead time compared with the ship transfer.

it quite often takes much longer than that when Galactic Traffic Control is maxed out in terms of CMDR requests to relocate their Carrier.
Yes, I do wonder how much carrier jumping (and possibly even ownership) would be entirely avoided if ship transfer was similarly quick, cheap-per-use and conveniently remotely schedulable.
 
Fleet Carriers let you move your entire fleet roughly three times as fast over long distances and generally somewhat faster over all but the shortest distances (not counting the time needed to click on all the "transfer here" buttons if you have a lot to move), for a cost per transfer roughly equivalent to moving a single A-rated Python (or less, if you're getting a lift on someone else's carrier, which may become more relevant with the coming Squadron Carriers).

At the very least they make the "one item at a time" transfer look incredibly slow and overpriced. But with Elite Dangerous being based around generally having very specialised ships for each role and switching between them for different jobs, having your fleet readily available is really useful for those who have more than one ship.

As far as an immersive reason for instant transfer goes: how about "it only works if you have an inactive crew member"? Their job is to fly the ship you're going to need later to the station you'll next need it at, and also that's what the salary is for.
I don’t see that as a working explanation for instant transfer, I see it as an explanation for the transfer time for that ship as it is configured taking the same time as if you had jumped it there yourself without any real life interruptions, which of course means that some transfers would be impossible as the ship did have the required range.

Would your immersion be maintained if there was a suitably believable in-universe explanation for instant transfers?
For values of suitable and believable that worked for me, maybe. It has to cover why we haven’t been doing things that way for all these years as well.
 
It's amazing we have any kind of ship and module transfers. Waiting for it to be completed is not so bad.

I just want to know, with such technology, why don't we have teleporters? We are more than a 1000 years in the future from Star Trek, and they had teleporters!

Sorry, I digress. :sneaky:
We have a bigger special effects budget and can afford to produce scenes of ships landing and docking.
 
I don’t see that as a working explanation for instant transfer, I see it as an explanation for the transfer time for that ship as it is configured taking the same time as if you had jumped it there yourself without any real life interruptions, which of course means that some transfers would be impossible as the ship did have the required range.
In the vast majority of cases, the time gap between "last time you used this ship" and "time it arrives at the destination" is going to be much larger than the time it would take to fly it there normally, though.

We already accept that the inactive crew themselves can be instantly available at any crew lounge, no matter how record-breakingly fast you travelled from A to B without them, or ended up at a B you had no previous plans to be at, without asking how they managed to beat you there every time.

It's not worth building a complex system to cover the cases they strictly wouldn't have the time for when in almost all cases they'd have plenty of time to spare.

As I noted above on Fleet Carriers, really it's not so much about the time taken but about the ability to schedule a transfer to happen before you yourself reach the destination and without visiting the source location which makes them so much more efficient. If you could transfer ships and modules from A to B while yourself sitting in an anonymous asteroid belt at C, probably no-one would notice the transfer time on them very much either.
(I suppose there it depends on whether you find "things being possible when they obviously shouldn't be" more or less of an immersion problem than "things being impossible when they obviously shouldn't be")
 
It has to cover why we haven’t been doing things that way for all these years as well.
Having the past game act as a blocker to new gameplay shouldn’t be a thing - otherwise we’d never have been unglued from our seats 😁

(Did that ever get an in-game explanation?)
 
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