Rework Crime and Punishment

[Ratzass]

Yeah, crime and punishment needs some serious rework.

The fact that in case you loose your ship you get treated equally and are send to a detention facility, no matter if you got a 5 million credits bounty on your head or just a laughable 200 cr fine - that's just stupid and ridiculous.

After all, I still don't get what purpose those detention facilities are serving. Being transported to another system doesn't really hurt, it's just an annoyance. So the only obvious change is that paying off your fines and bounties is no longer optional, and fines cause station services to be unavailable. And that's the "big change to crime and punishment"?

There should be a more serious punishment for serious crimes like killing civilians. What about actually taking commanders into custody? You would be unable to leave the detention facility for a certain period of time. The duration should depend on the height of the bounty on the commanders head. Minimum around 2h up to several days for the real bad guys. The countdown would only work while you're online. THAT would really hurt and stop people from going berzerk. In this case the bounty should of course once again be on the commanders head instead of his ship, in order to make it impossible to avoid.
Also bounties should expire. Not within days, but over months, being reduced in several steps before being removed. If you want to get rid of bounties faster you shoud be able to pay them of at interstellar factors when notoriety is at zero. However, the cost for paying them off should be higher than the bounty itself, using a multiplicator that is based on a commanders wealth (including credits as well as all owned ships and modules). Buy now, a bounty is a really harsh punishment for a new player, while those multi billionaire elite commanders can only laugh at them.

Fines, however, should not cause any of this trouble, they should be optional to pay, but let's face it, anyone would pay them. They are usually low and a station without acces to services sucks.
And petty things like "loitering" shouldn't be "punishable by death"!

Another point indirectly connected to this is the loss of exploration data, combat bonds and bounty vouchers upon destruction of your ship. Even worse is the loss of your fighter pilot once you have trained them several ranks beyond their starting point. Why is this? It somehow doesn't make sense. After all, missions do NOT disappear when your ship is destroyed.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I think being sent to a detention facility over a fine is a bit silly, it should just come out of your rebuy if you happen to die. Keep the station services lockout, so people actually pay them.

The loitering thing is so players don't troll by blocking pads. If you can't land, or leave a station in the provided time without getting stuck, you should probably git gud.

 

[Ethaidan]

Being transported to another system doesn't really hurt, it's just an annoyance. So the only obvious change is that paying off your fines and bounties is no longer optional, and fines cause station services to be unavailable. And that's the "big change to crime and punishment"?

- Yes, it's annoying and you have to actually pay your fines. Result.

There should be a more serious punishment for serious crimes like killing civilians. What about actually taking commanders into custody? You would be unable to leave the detention facility for a certain period of time. The duration should depend on the height of the bounty on the commanders head. Minimum around 2h up to several days for the real bad guys. The countdown would only work while you're online. THAT would really hurt and stop people from going berzerk.

- No, that's beyond stupid.

In this case the bounty should of course once again be on the commanders head instead of his ship, in order to make it impossible to avoid.

- No, suicidewinder.

Also bounties should expire. Not within days, but over months, being reduced in several steps before being removed.

- No, pay your fines / bounties. Degradation is so pre-3.0

Fines, however, should not cause any of this trouble, they should be optional to pay, but let's face it, anyone would pay them. They are usually low and a station without acces to services sucks.

- No, if there was no consequences, nobody would pay them. See pre-3.0.

Another point indirectly connected to this is the loss of exploration data, combat bonds and bounty vouchers upon destruction of your ship. Even worse is the loss of your fighter pilot once you have trained them several ranks beyond their starting point. Why is this? It somehow doesn't make sense. After all, missions do NOT disappear when your ship is destroyed.

So, no.

 

[Tigerhawk71]

Locking players out of the game for a certain period of time has already been done, in the form of Notoriety, though it's not a complete lockout. Locking players out of the game entirely as you suggest is not good gameplay design. It might be "realistic" or have "roleplaying" justifications but as a game design choice, it's a bad one.


Realistically if you have enough notoriety for example, you can either play in another ship/in another system for up to 20 hours of in-game time, or leave the game idle (like i'm doing right now) and go to work, sleep, etc. Any attempt to lock players out on an in-game timer will gather similar results. This is part of why bounties don't expire anymore - you encourage people to just not play. Bad game design.

They need to fix Notoriety first before addressing other problems - Put it on a real world timer or scrap it and find a better system, because the only thing it encourages is wasted electricity, really.


I think the C&P system is heading in the right direction - but there's still more that needs to be done.

 

[CMDR_Elver]

I agree that C&P is a bit of a mess, like you point out there seems to be confusion over the purposes over fines and bounties. Fines are for small crimes and a player should be able to dock at a station normally. Perhaps, there should be a time period to pay-off the fines before stations facilities become locked. Non-payment of fines could then incur more fines rep loss etc. but no need for anonymus dock protocols. I also agree respawning in a detetion centre for a fine is not really thought through.

Bounties are a completely different concept, which, again is not handled well with either the new or old C&P system. If you take the premise that a bounty is a price on a person head (i.e. to kill or capture, wanted dead or alive!) paid for by the authorities. Firstly, the elephant in the room is there is no player death in the game, this has created a complete lack of jeopardy in the game (I'm not suggesting bring that in but more highlighting it's impact on C&P). The next best thing to death is bankrupcy in elite dangerous, so if a cmdr is destroyed, I don't have a problem for them respawning in a detention centre with a fine to pay plus rebuy etc. I do have a problem with a cmdr being able to pay-off a bounty as if it were a fine and the ridiculous levels bounties are issued. E.g. a few hundred/thousand credits for destroying a ship being probably the most seroius crime. Even if you accept the logic that live is cheap, then what about the cost of the ship?

One way around this could be if C&P was based around reputation, where cmdrs get rep losses and fines for crimes with a faction. Cmdrs are therefore in control of the own destiny and can manage their reps by gaining or losing rep by their actions. This simple flow could come into play. I have been working on this system for a little while but here are the main points.

1. If a cmdr becomes hostile, then a bounty is placed on their head.
2. If the hostile cmdr is destroyed a bounty voucher equal to the cost of the destroyed ship is issued to the bounty hunter.
3. The hostile cmdr respawns in detention centre and pays the equivalent of the cost of the ship +10% admin, plus any outstanding fines, plus the usual rebuy or goes bankrupt if they can't pay.
4. Reputation remains the same, so effectively the cmdr remains hostile. The hostile faction gives a chain mission on release, with enough reputation if all parts are completed to get the cmdr to a non hostile status. For the duration of the mission the cmdr is on probation, where the hostile reputation status is suspended.
i. The first part of the mission has a time limit of an hour, prehaps just a simple courier or source mission, for a small rep gain. This gives the cmdr a choice of whether to complete the mission or at least a bit of time to plan their next move. for example finish existing business in the system or move on. If the cmdr comits more crimes agaisnt the faction they imdediatley become hostile again or when the mission time is up.
ii. The following parts to the chain mission come with higher reputation rewards and increase length of time to complete, with increase difficulty. Again any relaspe to criminal ways will result immdiately with the hostile status (probabtion over).

This hopefully will ground C&P and bounties in somemore meaningful than the present system.


For PvP have a Pilots Federation reputation/bounty system but reputation loss/gain is determined by attacking and destroying other cmdrs. This is galaxywide but powerplay and combat zones actions not liable for rep loss. A duelling mechanism could also be brought in for consquential battles.

1. Where a negative rep loss is given by attacking and destroying a cmdr with a neutral or positive PF rep.
2. If a cmdrs PF reputation is negative they have a PF bounty on their head. This is a galaxy wide bounty and if destroyed, pays the cost of the ship in PF bounty vouchers (an extra amount could be added to the bounty depending on how bad you reputation is). If destroyed with negative rep the cmdr is spwaned in normal way, unless bounty hunted with faction bounties aswell then spawn in detention centre (the above rules then apply). The cost of the ship + 10% is converted to a PF fine payable with the rebuy.
3. Positive rep is given for destroying cmdrs with negative reputation (plus bounty vouchers). This will give cmdrs with negative reputation the options to bounty hunt other negatively rep'd cmdrs to gain better reputation again.
4. Cmdrs will be able to see PF reputations after scans to guide their actions.

 

[Ratzass]

The loitering thing is so players don't troll by blocking pads. If you can't land, or leave a station in the provided time without getting stuck, you should probably git gud.

I agree that there should be some kind of punishment and the fines should definitely be higher. After all, the money is not really the problem, even if it is a several million rebuy. Once you can afford such a ship you have the funds to pay for that easily. Maybe fines should generally be adapted to your wealth so it hurts multimillionaires as well while not completely ruining new commanders.
But destroying the ship because it sits in the wrong place for a few seconds? That’s just crazy!
Also it would expose the station and anyone inside to a much higher risk than a ship just blocking a part of the corridor.
What about ramming ships that push the ship away, tractor beams (they really need to make it into ED, again), or the station simply using shock weapons to move the ship. The possibilities are endless and each single one probably makes more sense than what we have now.

 

[Ratzass]

I agree that C&P is a bit of a mess, like you point out there seems to be confusion over the purposes over fines and bounties. Fines are for small crimes and a player should be able to dock at a station normally. Perhaps, there should be a time period to pay-off the fines before stations facilities become locked. Non-payment of fines could then incur more fines rep loss etc. but no need for anonymus dock protocols. I also agree respawning in a detetion centre for a fine is not really thought through.

Bounties are a completely different concept, which, again is not handled well with either the new or old C&P system. If you take the premise that a bounty is a price on a person head (i.e. to kill or capture, wanted dead or alive!) paid for by the authorities. Firstly, the elephant in the room is there is no player death in the game, this has created a complete lack of jeopardy in the game (I'm not suggesting bring that in but more highlighting it's impact on C&P). The next best thing to death is bankrupcy in elite dangerous, so if a cmdr is destroyed, I don't have a problem for them respawning in a detention centre with a fine to pay plus rebuy etc. I do have a problem with a cmdr being able to pay-off a bounty as if it were a fine and the ridiculous levels bounties are issued. E.g. a few hundred/thousand credits for destroying a ship being probably the most seroius crime. Even if you accept the logic that live is cheap, then what about the cost of the ship?

One way around this could be if C&P was based around reputation, where cmdrs get rep losses and fines for crimes with a faction. Cmdrs are therefore in control of the own destiny and can manage their reps by gaining or losing rep by their actions. This simple flow could come into play. I have been working on this system for a little while but here are the main points.

1. If a cmdr becomes hostile, then a bounty is placed on their head.
2. If the hostile cmdr is destroyed a bounty voucher equal to the cost of the destroyed ship is issued to the bounty hunter.
3. The hostile cmdr respawns in detention centre and pays the equivalent of the cost of the ship +10% admin, plus any outstanding fines, plus the usual rebuy or goes bankrupt if they can't pay.
4. Reputation remains the same, so effectively the cmdr remains hostile. The hostile faction gives a chain mission on release, with enough reputation if all parts are completed to get the cmdr to a non hostile status. For the duration of the mission the cmdr is on probation, where the hostile reputation status is suspended.
i. The first part of the mission has a time limit of an hour, prehaps just a simple courier or source mission, for a small rep gain. This gives the cmdr a choice of whether to complete the mission or at least a bit of time to plan their next move. for example finish existing business in the system or move on. If the cmdr comits more crimes agaisnt the faction they imdediatley become hostile again or when the mission time is up.
ii. The following parts to the chain mission come with higher reputation rewards and increase length of time to complete, with increase difficulty. Again any relaspe to criminal ways will result immdiately with the hostile status (probabtion over).

This hopefully will ground C&P and bounties in somemore meaningful than the present system.


For PvP have a Pilots Federation reputation/bounty system but reputation loss/gain is determined by attacking and destroying other cmdrs. This is galaxywide but powerplay and combat zones actions not liable for rep loss. A duelling mechanism could also be brought in for consquential battles.

1. Where a negative rep loss is given by attacking and destroying a cmdr with a neutral or positive PF rep.
2. If a cmdrs PF reputation is negative they have a PF bounty on their head. This is a galaxy wide bounty and if destroyed, pays the cost of the ship in PF bounty vouchers (an extra amount could be added to the bounty depending on how bad you reputation is). If destroyed with negative rep the cmdr is spwaned in normal way, unless bounty hunted with faction bounties aswell then spawn in detention centre (the above rules then apply). The cost of the ship + 10% is converted to a PF fine payable with the rebuy.
3. Positive rep is given for destroying cmdrs with negative reputation (plus bounty vouchers). This will give cmdrs with negative reputation the options to bounty hunt other negatively rep'd cmdrs to gain better reputation again.
4. Cmdrs will be able to see PF reputations after scans to guide their actions.

Wow, I agree to that 100%! I would happily wait for atmospheric landing or mining improvements two years longer if we would get this instead.

 

[Thrym]

You can develop a bounty in less than one second by shooting a "clean" target entirely accidentally. If they die in a relatively broad period of time after that, you'll have the murder bounty---I managed to get a murder bounty yesterday because I did hull damage to a miner that was behind a pirate. How much hull damage? Heck, I dunno, whatever amount two large, engineered beam lasers do in the tenths of a second it took them to converge on my actual target(the pirate ship). The pirates proceed to kill the miner, bam, murder bounty. The game is dumb, and that's understating the issue, as to whether or not you're actually committing a crime.

Until that is entirely fixed, and frankly after for that matter, actual in-game detention is a bad idea. In fact, the current notoriety system is a bad idea too. What did I do to deal with the current notoriety system? Well, I left the system I was in, and proceeded to play normally until I was done playing, finishing my night in a system with an interstellar contact. I then proceeded to go AFK, but not log off. Right before bed, I swung back in, paid the bounty, and logged off. What would I do if I had to be logged on but not doing anything because of actual detention? Same thing. I'd just log on, burning server resources and racking of my "played time" number, while actually doing other things.

Fines themselves are trivial, but really I think that most are appropriate. Loitering, blocking traffic....these are "misdemeanor" type offenses. They don't warrant all singing, financially painful fines. Assault, and even a murder bounty should be high. We should never be here complaining because I bounty hunter thinks we're their meal ticket due to a trivial bounty----they should be high enough to justify killing the ship or not at all.

There are tons of options to fix crime and punishment, most are more logical and better than what we actually have, but "real" detention is not one of them. That's just literally removing players from the game. Realistic, but not something that belongs in a game. That's a punishment fit for real world cheating or bad behavior---it's the equivalent to a game ban, even if you allow logging in, because you've removed the ability to play. If not doing something is so important you'll ban me for it, they need to make their best effort to make it impossible for me to do that action so that I can't do it accidentally.

 

[CMDR_Elver]

Wow, I agree to that 100%! I would happily wait for atmospheric landing or mining improvements two years longer if we would get this instead.

Thanks!! I think FDev would have to admit defeat for the hotships debarcle but you never know, they said C&P was still going to be developed. Those ideas were thought of with present ingame system/mechanism in mind with an attempt to simplfy the old system and make more of a game of it. In principle it is a simipler system, so shouldn't be too differcult to code but you never know with these things. Anyway getting FDev to listen will always be hard bit. Perhaps I will flesh it out a post it up when I get some time!!

 

[Tigerhawk71]

I do have a problem with a cmdr being able to pay-off a bounty as if it were a fine and the ridiculous levels bounties are issued. E.g. a few hundred/thousand credits for destroying a ship being probably the most seroius crime. Even if you accept the logic that live is cheap, then what about the cost of the ship?

It's worth noting that murder bounties are a lot more serious than they used to be and they escalate if you continue to commit them and your Notoriety goes up. A few days ago i was getting bounties of over 600,000Cr per murder. I was in a mood to nuke everything that moved. It was fun, if expensive.

One way around this could be if C&P was based around reputation, where cmdrs get rep losses and fines for crimes with a faction. Cmdrs are therefore in control of the own destiny and can manage their reps by gaining or losing rep by their actions. This simple flow could come into play. I have been working on this system for a little while but here are the main points.

1. If a cmdr becomes hostile, then a bounty is placed on their head.
2. If the hostile cmdr is destroyed a bounty voucher equal to the cost of the destroyed ship is issued to the bounty hunter.
3. The hostile cmdr respawns in detention centre and pays the equivalent of the cost of the ship +10% admin, plus any outstanding fines, plus the usual rebuy or goes bankrupt if they can't pay.
4. Reputation remains the same, so effectively the cmdr remains hostile. The hostile faction gives a chain mission on release, with enough reputation if all parts are completed to get the cmdr to a non hostile status. For the duration of the mission the cmdr is on probation, where the hostile reputation status is suspended.
i. The first part of the mission has a time limit of an hour, prehaps just a simple courier or source mission, for a small rep gain. This gives the cmdr a choice of whether to complete the mission or at least a bit of time to plan their next move. for example finish existing business in the system or move on. If the cmdr comits more crimes agaisnt the faction they imdediatley become hostile again or when the mission time is up.
ii. The following parts to the chain mission come with higher reputation rewards and increase length of time to complete, with increase difficulty. Again any relaspe to criminal ways will result immdiately with the hostile status (probabtion over).

This hopefully will ground C&P and bounties in somemore meaningful than the present system.

You already get a much heavier rep loss for murder than you used to. It doesn't take too many murders to go from full Allied to Hostile now with a faction, a half dozen or so is all it takes. When you are Hostile, you can no longer dock at controlled stations and the local police (if of that faction) are also hostile.

I don't really like the idea of forcing people to do a mission, especially not a "chain" and/or pay arbitrary additional sums, either. Especially when you consider many of the people that are the "problem" that C&P is supposed to "solve" (i.e, repeated, brazen offenders) have more than enough money to outlive any arbitrary nonsense and can/will always go to the current goldrush for more.

With how often people get "accidental" bounties for assault or - if they clip someone but don't kill them and someone else does - murder, your idea shoots itself in the foot - If that happens i'm now forced into some lame mission chain with an arbitrary time limit, with no guarantee i'm even in a ship capable of it nor capable of completing it, assuming i can afford to refit a ship or call one in in the first place.

Mission timers are also realtime, so if this happens at the end of my play session now i'm going to get a SECOND bounty on my head/have the hostile status reinstated/now i'm forced into some boring missions in my next play session. No thanks.


I get your idea in theory, but in practice it simply isn't going to work out. All you're going to do is discourage people from playing when they get a bounty they didn't intentionally get. Not only that but you have to control for a LOT of variables in there that FDev likely can't or won't do... also it sounds really, really boring. For people who INTENTIONALLY get high bounties? They'll just keep doing exactly what they are now, then knock out some boring mission set if/when they are forced to.


I think FDev have the right idea (mostly) with Notoriety, but have implemented it poorly. In-Game time decay, all-or-nothing penalties above 0... It does mean if you go on an intentional murder spree you can't do anything about your bounty for 20 hours of in-game time without paying a rebuy (and even then it doesn't reset your Notoriety) so it's not a "light" or "slap on the wrist" kind of system, but it doesn't work quite how they intended, i don't think. You should be able to clear a bounty at Notoriety 1 easily to remove "Accidental" issues from the list, if nothing else. It was flow-breaking before and it's flow-breaking now.



-------

I won't comment on PvP C&P because i don't really care

 

[varonica]

The fact that in case you loose your ship you get treated equally and are send to a detention facility, no matter if you got a 5 million credits bounty on your head or just a laughable 200 cr fine - that's just stupid and ridiculous.

I had a 200cr fine the other day, I just flew into the station and paid it off, I don't know what sort of fines you are getting that for 200cr sends you to detention, they just took my money and bid me a have a nice day.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I had a 200cr fine the other day, I just flew into the station and paid it off, I don't know what sort of fines you are getting that for 200cr sends you to detention, they just took my money and bid me a have a nice day.

I think some people are making up stories to justify their hatred of any kind of C&P.

 

[Thrym]

I had a 200cr fine the other day, I just flew into the station and paid it off, I don't know what sort of fines you are getting that for 200cr sends you to detention, they just took my money and bid me a have a nice day.

As best I can tell, you won't get attacked for fines at all, and not in any amount I've ever had.

You will, however, have a full blown, combat equipped Anaconda pulling you out of supercruise for a 400 credit assault bounty(because somehow, this is his mealticket, despite the fact that he'll blow three grand worth of ordinance on you before you've finished scanning him), and the police will kill you if you're scanned with it. Even if you're in a ship and have a reputation that suggests you'll be more than happy to pay it off and even that this is not a normal thing for you to acquire.

Turning yourself in for such a bounty will also get you tossed at the detention facility, as will your ship destruction if you have such a thing. It is worth noting that having one or two of these happen will not raise your notoriety, though, so you can pay it off at an interstellar contact without incident.

In my opinion, it's all well and good that major crimes and accrued high bounties will result in these things. If a few hundred credits is really what it's worth, though, the current system shows it's real weakness. Full blown death sentence for stray shots on a non-wanted(or wanted like crazy, just not scanned yet) ship?.....Eh, that's just dumb all around. It is clear that the system needs some common sense tweaking, somehow or other.

 

[varonica]

Full blown death sentence for stray shots on a non-wanted(or wanted like crazy, just not scanned yet) ship?.....Eh, that's just dumb all around. It is clear that the system needs some common sense tweaking, somehow or other.

Well you see this is the thing. This is entirely realistic, say you are in a situation where a number of bad people are shooting up the place, and you're American so of course you have a gun. Pulling the gun out and joining the fight might seem like a good idea until you accidentally shoot a SWAT member, he's not going to stand up and politely ask, "excuse me, did you accidentally shoot me?" No, he's going to get on his radio, call the sniper and mark you as a valid target and they are going to try and kill you.

So yes in some situation accidental fire would and should attract a lethal response. Now I am not saying it makes sense to do this every time, but what I would suggest is, on entering a conflict zone where security forces are you need to identify yourself to those forces as a friend, then it becomes a fine for a first friendly fire incident which increases with each instance until you get removed as a friend after so many and then you get the full C&P system applying.

I mean yes there are ways around it with different rules and tweaking, but we have to be careful we don't nerf it so much it brings back behaviour FDEV are trying to discourage.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

(or wanted like crazy, just not scanned yet)

They adjusted it in ... one of the 3.0 point releases, I think? ... so that wanted NPCs have report crimes off, and so can safely be shot pre-scan.

 

[CMDR_Elver]

It's worth noting that murder bounties are a lot more serious than they used to be and they escalate if you continue to commit them and your Notoriety goes up. A few days ago i was getting bounties of over 600,000Cr per murder. I was in a mood to nuke everything that moved. It was fun, if expensive.



You already get a much heavier rep loss for murder than you used to. It doesn't take too many murders to go from full Allied to Hostile now with a faction, a half dozen or so is all it takes. When you are Hostile, you can no longer dock at controlled stations and the local police (if of that faction) are also hostile.

Yeah rep loss is a feature in the game already but the current system does not follow through the logic properly imho. It's good that security are hostile and stations are locked out but the C&P system doesn't really mesh together. Linking a hostile status to a bounty on the head of a cmdr is the nub of the change I'm proposing. Do away with a 200 cr bounty (these could be straight fines and rep loss) for this or that and link the bounty to the value of the ship your flying. As long as your hostile your a valid bounty target, with a garunteed reward equivalent to the differculty of taking you down (if you accept ship value is a measure of that). This totally streams lines the system and gives more meaningful rewards to the bounties. A bounty that you can pay-off isn't a bounty it's a fine! This is where the logic breaks down for me.

I don't really like the idea of forcing people to do a mission, especially not a "chain" and/or pay arbitrary additional sums, either. Especially when you consider many of the people that are the "problem" that C&P is supposed to "solve" (i.e, repeated, brazen offenders) have more than enough money to outlive any arbitrary nonsense and can/will always go to the current goldrush for more.


With how often people get "accidental" bounties for assault or - if they clip someone but don't kill them and someone else does - murder, your idea shoots itself in the foot - If that happens i'm now forced into some lame mission chain with an arbitrary time limit, with no guarantee i'm even in a ship capable of it nor capable of completing it, assuming i can afford to refit a ship or call one in in the first place.

Mission timers are also realtime, so if this happens at the end of my play session now i'm going to get a SECOND bounty on my head/have the hostile status reinstated/now i'm forced into some boring missions in my next play session. No thanks.


I get your idea in theory, but in practice it simply isn't going to work out. All you're going to do is discourage people from playing when they get a bounty they didn't intentionally get. Not only that but you have to control for a LOT of variables in there that FDev likely can't or won't do... also it sounds really, really boring. For people who INTENTIONALLY get high bounties? They'll just keep doing exactly what they are now, then knock out some boring mission set if/when they are forced to.

Although the mission is mandatory as part of conditions of release, nobody is forcing anybody to complete the mission, that is the choice for the cmdr. What it does is gives the cmdr a period of grace while the mission is active, before he/she becomes hostile again. So the cmdr can leave the area or dock at a station again and carry on where they left off. Having a chain mission that escalates in rewrds/time difficulty, allows players some flexibility in their play sessions. You could also finish the play session in the detention centre and pick up there the next time. At the end of the day not completing the mission returns a cmdr to the status quo, so nothing is really lost. I disagree with your analysis that it will discourage people or there is alot of extra variables to deal with. It won't affect people who intentially get bounties either! What it does do is link rep/work for a faction to the punishment for a crime, not just credits.

I think FDev have the right idea (mostly) with Notoriety, but have implemented it poorly. In-Game time decay, all-or-nothing penalties above 0... It does mean if you go on an intentional murder spree you can't do anything about your bounty for 20 hours of in-game time without paying a rebuy (and even then it doesn't reset your Notoriety) so it's not a "light" or "slap on the wrist" kind of system, but it doesn't work quite how they intended, i don't think. You should be able to clear a bounty at Notoriety 1 easily to remove "Accidental" issues from the list, if nothing else. It was flow-breaking before and it's flow-breaking now.

Noterity was a fix for the hotships idea as it was too easy to avoid punishment by simply changing ships. It was not included in the first revision of the beyond C&P changes it was just bolted on. I am not totally agaisnt hot ships as an idea but it was a mistake to make it the basis of C&P imho. Again mixing up the function of fines and bounties is a persisnt theme with FDEv's C&P. I totally agree with you and the OP that a 200cr bounty for accidental fire is just ridiculous it should just be a fine, especially if a cmdr can clear it anyway. I suspect that FDEv wanted to make Interstella Factors more relevant, which is understandable. Perhaps going to the IF, they could offer to smooth the relations between the cmdr and the faction via the backchannels for a fee, by perhaps offering a mission for rep also. This would work if the cmdr is hostile in a system and therefore, locked out of a station etc. I espect this might be kind of thing FDev where thinking but just linked it to paying off bounties, not a reputation based transaction.

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I won't comment on PvP C&P because i don't really care

PvP was/is the part of the C&P that needed fixing, nobody in the forums going back years now, wanted a major rework of the faction C&P system, all the forums were based around griefing/gankers etc. Bringing in a PF rep/bounty/rebuy system was the change they should of made in beyond 3.0. We will have to wait and see what they do with a karma based PF rep system, which was mooted not so long ago but I am not holding out a lot of hope that it will function properly based on current form.

 

[Morphemes]

several days...
SEVERAL DAYS!?
[where is it]