I had some spare time so I thought I'd check in to see how you guys are doing
Powerplay was meant to be the outlet for the PVP part of the game.
False! I've seen you claim this in multiple posts, but you apparently misunderstood all the developer comments. They clearly said that
consensual (means both you and the person you're exchanging shoots with wants to be there and shot at) PvP is only
PART of the game and power-play, nobody ever said power-play was meant as a PvP feature.. That's simply you demonstrating some wishful thinking
Instead, they undermine in solo and private. Not because of the choice. But because they know they would be opposed. Like that guys griefing and ganking video I posted.
Wrong again, they are simply playing the game as intended.
So now, not only do the modes kill the PVP aspect part of the game.
How? How does someone doing power-play in solo prevent YOU from having some fun and meaningful PvP with another person in Open, who is up for and enjoys that kind of activity?
Who knows whats else is lurking in private and solo. I gotta tell ya maynard, keeping the game as it is now with the toxicity, PVE vs PVP, instead of PVP vs PVP with objectives. Forum PVP. People invading private group servers and killing everyone in sight, all sorts of things.
Monsters and aliens I tell you! They'll all lurking in solo.. where did I put my tinfoil-hat?!?..
The second part has to do with those little things called 'manners' and 'respecting others'.. you know.. those sort of things.. rather than the presence of the modes
like when the rule-set of a specific community states that you're not supposed to do something and then you go there and do it with the sole purpose of ruining others game-experience..
Knowing when your freedom ends and another person's begins - but pretty much this thread could be described by this line.
So keeping it this way? You are choosing to keep the game toxic. Thats not the players fault. Its how its built.
And it just cant stay this way. I love the game, but even the nicest person becomes super toxic when they get killed in the game. "I got killed for no reason +30 min rant cause they got killed while they were on the ground AFK". We are trying to define that reason. Because it does exist. And when you take away those reasons with private and solo.
The community tearing each other apart is what you get.
What are you talking about?... like seriously? Where is this game toxic? This game has one of the nicest communities I have ever seen... Like look at all the nice PvE people answering your posts to the best of their abilities.. You would've been torn apart by the users of pretty much every other game on the market if you'd be on their forums demanding changes that 99% of the players don't want
(and I know that for a fact, since we run a community of ~2.7k active people across 40+ multiplayer games)
Yet here you are, not even being moderated, in fact a moderator kindly answering most of your posts even after they became redundant and he knows that he's pretty much talking to a wall, since you don't want to listen to anything but your own version of the story
As far as in-game toxicity goes, that's non-existent... You know why?.. Because of the modes and instancing! If I don't want to play with someone, I can choose not to, without sacrificing anything else. It is one of the most brilliant solutions out there imo!
You have to force people to PVP if you want to define PVP. Otherwise, we get the toxicity we have now.
No you don't. But just in case you're still not convinced there here's an alternative answer: Maybe the developers don't want to define PvP or their definition of PvP is very different from that of yours.. Regarding toxicity: see above!
You guys seem to be missing the context here. Almost purposefully.
Powerplay is consensual PVP as you know what you are signing up for when you get into it.
Nah, you're the one missing.. the point.. the context.. pretty much everything and indeed on purpose, since you simply don't want to accept the truth.. neither when it comes to the definition of the word 'consensual' nor the fact that power-play is not a PvP exclusive mechanic.
Im really REALLY getting frustrated with how obtuse some of you are with this.
In that case, you'll be happy to know that you are not alone in your frustration
I mean you can only explain the same thing so many times before you get bored of trying.. Even a 5 year old would probably know by now that the modes are a basic part of the game, it has been for all these years and the developers have absolutely no intention of changing that, whether you like it or not. Just switch games if you don't like it, there's plenty of PvP games you can look into.
But there shouldnt be safe haven from a part of the game directed at giving context to PVP.
There isn't a safe haven from that, simply because NONE of the main game's features are meant to be PvP exclusive, especially not power-play.
When you see that no where did it say solo and private would hold the advantage over open play. Why would anyone chose to be stopped in a competition against each other.
And if you cant realize that. Then you're doing it on purpose.
Stop it.
They don't! But in case they did, you have the same options as everybody else, you have access to solo and open, you can do everything that any other player can do.. You should use the game mechanics available to you and try to have fun, instead of requesting the developers to re-develop a core aspect of their game and remove the freedom or fun of others. If you can only have fun if you're allowed to freely attack every person who wants nothing to do with PvP, then I'm sorry, but we don't want to play with you and this game was developed to allow that choice, so you should move on and find a different game.. how can you not realize it?..
You do end up using them. No reason not to. Thats why PVP has no place in Elite. Thats why the PVP community is small. Its not about the choice. Its about whats optimal.
See? You're on the right track
That realization along with the fact that pretty much every developer told you already that they have no intention of turning this into a full on PvP game ever should have been enough to just cope with the facts and move on from this subject and find something else you like about the game. PvP is there as an option, it always has been.. and you're free to make out of it what you can. If you cannot find meaningful PvP engagements because people choose to avoid you, then that's not the developers problem, it's the reaction of the community to your presence and you should probably take it as a sign and think about it.
And thats whats going on with the modes. I firmly believe they should be used for personal progression only.
Well, apparently the developers don't and they're the ones making the rules..
It's pretty much like Elon Musk launching a sports-car into orbit.. he's the one with the rocket company.. he's the one with the car company.. he put two and two together and made his decision even though there are some people who 'firmly believe' he shouldn't have done so... Oh and guess what
He didn't call me either if I approve of his plan.. bummer..
Thats the only way to balance PVP in any game. Otherwise, PVP is for griefing. PVP and Griefing are two different things.
It's completely up to you what you do with the game you bought.. If griefing is your thing, by all means
knock yourself out.. you have the freedom to do so.
And thats why I fight for the mode stuff. Because I shouldnt be called a griefer for trying to play the game. After that the toxicity snowballs because of the no context.
Of course you should be called a griefer if that's what you're doing
A person is defined by his actions. If that's the reaction of a community to your actions and you don't like it, then maybe it's not the community that needs to change. Just saying. And if you enjoy it, by all means, Frontier even lets you buy little name-plates you can put on your ship so you can proudly wear the word 'griefer' as a medal
Choice! That's why this game is awesome.
Anyway, let's move on to some other posts, you kept me busy there for a while..
Fun fact, ED is neither a PvP game nor a PvE game. It's a sandbox game.
Fun fact: Sandbox is a term to describe the level-design of the game and not the player interactions. So they're not in the same category. A game can still be PvE Sandbox or PvP Sandbox or a mix of both.
PvE is as mandatory as PvP.
You can easily get to one of the big 3 without ever using a lazor or multicannon.
There is no need for adversity at all, shooting stuff in the first place is optional.
You misunderstand the 'v' in PvE. It's not referring to combat and firing weapons. It simply states that you as a player will be facing challenges that do not originate from other players.. Now whether that will be making money to buy ships, doing delivery missions.. picking space-flowers... they all fall under the term PvE. So yes, unlocking engineers.. getting upgrades.. making money.. all are categorized as PvE activities. If you remove PvE, what you're left with is pretty much the arena mode. So in that sense, yes, PvE is mandatory in this game, unless you prefer sitting in a sidewinder shooting at players all day. PvP on the other hand is optional and consensual.
Indirect PvP is as optional as direct PvP as well.
I do not need to choose a faction or support any powers.
Sure I can choose to, but that makes it optional.
We talked about this before, but let's clear it once and for all.. Power-play IS NOT 'indirect PvP'. Power-play is a fully PvE mechanic that allows for optional PvP interactions, that is all. That's the reason you do not need a faction in order to support a power. In fact the two were never even linked... Player factions were simply a 'nice to have' option added by the developers where player groups of sufficient numbers can add their 'mark' in the game just as a 'we exist' mechanic. But other than that player factions entirely function as any other NPC faction.. in fact it IS an NPC faction and runs completely under the terms of the BGS, it just has a custom name, that's all.
The argument of content being locked behind a 'PvP wall' doesn't stand.
I would not expect to get an elite rank in exploration by doing combat stuff.
So why would anyone expect PvE players to play PvP content?
It doesn't make sense.
It's like saying a solo player is locked out of wings and multicrew.
The reason it doesn't make sense is because you still refuse to look at the facts. And one of those facts is that it's not PvP content, never was..
Adding relevant PvP content to ED won't make this game a PvP game, because it's still a sandbox game.
If you don't agree with my argument, please explain to me if Arma 3 is a PvP or a PvE game.
GTA is a sandbox game, Prototype is a sandbox game, Far cry is a sandbox game, Watch Dogs is another one... and the list goes on. Sandbox refers to level-design, not player interactions.. it simply states that you're allowed to go where you want and aren't limited to levels or left-to-right movement like in the old Mario days.. etc etc.. another word for sandbox is 'open-world' but here you go:
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming
An example of an open world PvE game would be WoW, your only option of progression is PvE.
But this is not the case for ED as you able to progress without any adversity.
In WoW you can actually level up and get all the PvP gear you want by doing nothing but PvP (it wasn't like that in the beginning, so maybe this would've been your best argument if used this way
- as in: the concept was changed due to a large number of PvP players - which Elite so far did not present)
Everything is optional, because it's a purist version of a sandbox.
The advertisement never says one way is the true way, so we get plenty of threads on the forum complaining.
It's really a thing claiming that me and all the people before me don't understand what was advertised.
You really think we are all idiots or what?
Nope, if we thought that, we wouldn't be putting in all the effort in trying to answer your concerns. However we do expect you to sooner or later realize what we've been trying to tell you. That you have all the same options as everybody else.. and just because your personal play-style requires other people to be present doesn't mean you'll be able to force that on everybody else, especially when the majority of the players do not see any of this 'drama' and are perfectly happy with the modes and are off doing their own thing in the game.
If the PvP playerbase included at least 10% of the active players, I'm pretty sure there would be legit talk of introducing some new elements that are designed for PvP from top to bottom, but there would still be no chance of ever altering the modes.
So all future PvP requests would have way more weight to them if they stopped trying to attack the mode system and instead came up with something new. Otherwise they simply end up in this part of the forum, which I assume was specifically created so the developers know which threads not to waste their time reading. And I'm not kidding you.. I genuinely think the moderators are instructed to move every post regarding the modes here for that specific reason.. to act as a filter and improve the productivity of the Frontier staff reading the forums.
In order to make PvP meaningfull an existing or new content must be locked in OPEN mode. End of discussion, sort of.
We have to agree here.
Whether this game a pvp or PVE it doesnt matter, everyone is aware of how things are NOW. We want a change.
You.. and who else? The other 5 people in this thread who managed to write 50 pages of the exact same thing after being told on the very first page that it's not going to happen? Just checking
PvP is not required for anything in the game - true that, also, this part makes it meaningless. If pvp content will be locked in OPEN, PvP will become a mandatory activity in order to participate in this content ( lets assume its new content, existing BGS and PP will stay like they are today).
Okay, see? That's already WAY better.. you're talking about new content developed specifically for PvP - That's a step in the right direction imo. Forcing it to be open-only is not. If they develop a proper content that is truly meant for PvP, that means it will be unplayable in Solo mode due to lack of other players. So there's no need to lock it to any mode. Open and player groups could benefit from it.
Make sure that players cant avoid that pvp content by going to SOLO purposely to avoid consequences of this PvP content. That's the whole argument.
Yes, if content would be developed that was aimed as PvP-exclusive then obviously it is automatically implied that people in Solo mode wouldn't be able to interact with that content. So yes, I'm all for that! And as long as you're not attacking the mode systems or wanting to claim the existing PP system as a PvP-only mechanic, that's perfectly fine and you actually have a chance of the devs listening to an idea like that imo. Not to mention that plenty of PvE players would back such an idea as long as it doesn't remove anything from the game they bought or force them to do something they don't want to. That's the proper way of going about it!
PG's suck out the life of ED and the reason for it is how badly PvP is implemented.
If 40K players exodus open it speaks worlds and should be looked into, bc modes might be broken, just sayin'.
Wrong! That is actually proof right there for you that 40k players want nothing to do with PvP.. 'meaningful' or otherwise. And as others have stated, when there will be a PvP group with 40k members I'm pretty sure there's going to be content developed specifically for them. But 5.. 10.. or even 500 people complaining on the forums, even if they do it over and over again will not change anything when it comes to the modes. Especially with how things stand, that most people requesting this specific change are using it as a facade and they think they can trick people who design and develop games for a living into overlooking the fact that they merely want more people to prey on
Here's a thought... why not go and use the tools in the game to serve the community instead of fighting them on the forums? Go, team up with Algo and his buddies and make a super large faction (larger than the previous attempts) and clean out open of all the gankers
They are already 'forced' to that mode as they cannot gank in Solo so you have your targets for the meaningful PvP. They'll even have legit bounties.. they will be equipped for PvP and the game actually wants you to hunt them.
If it works out, more and more people will join Open as a side-effect.. People like playing with other people.. even most of the solo ones, they simply don't want to bother with the idea of being attacked when they're not interested in PvP. You'd be like the Fuel Rats, who are revered in the community for helping others. I'm sure Algo can still make youtube videos of him ganking the gankers.. and everything would be just fine as long as you had your code of honor and stuck to it. Obviously you don't have to do that, you're free to gank others and be called a ganker.. Just like I said earlier.. people are defined by their actions.
I'm also sure Frontier would pay more attention to your requests if they saw you're working on building the community rather than breaking it down...
Anyway.. I had like 3-4 more comments flagged to respond to.. but I'll skip them as this post is getting way too long as it is..
I'll just do one more for the fun of it
They dont want to pvp yet they are perfectely fine damaging someones property from the private modes. So do they really dont want PvP? Or they just dont want to be stopped?
That's as much your property as when a dog is claiming ownership of my car after taking a leak on the tire
It's a PvE NPC faction.. that's all it is.
Anyway, can't we simply ask a dev to stop by and repeat their quotes once more in person, then lock this thing?
We're getting nowhere fast..
Cheers!
