Right what the hell is wrong with the controls?

[Minti2]

Good to hear Corralis that your not giving up on ED, nice you felt an apology was needed by you, that's guts mate :smilie:

and great to see the majority in the community really trying to give you positive feedback, i liked that alot! so well done you lot, its nice to get a thread back on track and helping the OP out, so well done again guys!

 

[AtomicHorror]

People? You are the only one who wants this awful gameplay model.

Seriously, I think that this is a SC troll who wants that Elite, who has better flight model, follow the fail way from his AC.

FD, dont take this opinion as a feedback.



Yeah, get out of here.

You came here with your agresive opinion saying that this awful flying model is better because is more easy. You started insulting everyone who says that WE LIKE THIS SYSTEM OK? WE LIKE IT. And then that you noticed than your troll try was a fail.

Elite has another point of view and you are not going to destabilize the direction of this awesome game, ok?

Is that clear?

Enjoy your turrets in space.

Is this really helping? I don't think this guy is trolling. The flight model is very different to what many would expect. That's bound to confuse some and make others frustrated until they can figure it out. Yeah, he was aggressive. But responses like this just make it worse, not better, as we see in his reply to you. Take the higher ground and hope the OP follows, or else just leave it alone.

As it turns out, enough other posters did exactly that and now he's giving it another try. It wouldn't happen on many forums, but it happens here often. A patient, mature community.

 

[Frog]

Err, what? A heated discussion does not end with name calling, banned users and excessive implementation of Godwin's law, but with an apology? Did I somehow fall off the internet?

Anyway, hats off to Corralis.

 

[ZeeWolf]

Yea, I have read all your comments and I agree with them.

When I first started this thread I was confused with the game, I couldn't figured out the controls (or the controls were not doing what I expected them to do) and I figured I must be setting the game up wrong. Within the first two posts I then realized that the game was designed this way, totally different from any of the space sim games that I have played in the past (and as I mentioned, I have played a lot of them) and I couldn't understand why anyone would do this.
Also it was getting late and I was tired and then I ended up arguing with people instead of what I should have done which is to learn how people play the game and not keep up pretending it was just the wrong way to do things.
So for that I apologize, I never meant to cause any offense to anyone and I will attempt to learn how to fly in Elite as I've been waiting too long for the game to just give up after an hour.

Fair play to you dude.

At the end of the day, space combat with people sitting in little ships covered in engines firing coloured lasers at each other is space science fiction fantasy. I think we are all guilty of taking it a little bit too seriously ;-)

 

[Corralis]

Err, what? A heated discussion does not end with name calling, banned users and excessive implementation of Godwin's law, but with an apology? Did I somehow fall off the internet?

Anyway, hats off to Corralis.

Ha ha yea I got a few hours sleep and turned into a normal human again. I think I was arguing with people till way past 5am this morning and I was like 'man no one get's me, I need to sleep'.

 

[Crash_Happy]

I hope you have a better time with ED from now on, the flight model is rather fun.

 

[No1]

I agree with OP.

While the thread title is not the most polite, it is exactly what i was thinking when i tried ED using mouse and KB.

In my opinion the mouse roll/pitch control style is not just illogical, it is anti-logical and anti-intuitive. This is not contradicted by the fact that it can be used effectively with enough training. I will not spend part of my lifetime adapting to such a cumbersome interface. Instead i will try to survive with the nerfed yaw/pich mode and the non-functional 'Yaw-Roll Button' feature for now.

Please be aware, the complaints are about the mouse control as it is implemented at the moment, and not about elite core-design-feature of roll/pitch control. I expect that using a joystick the control style will be (way more) intuitive.

I can understand that veterans get annoyed with complaints about feature which are part of the core identity of the game. But a reaction in the spirit of "shut-up, go home and play SC" is elitist and arrogant. And this attitude is dangerous:

• How much game units have to be sold for it to be a (financial) success and Frontier be able to continue with developing it?
• How much of those are sold to the early-adopters/hardcore-fans, and how much will have to be sold to 'normal' customers?
• What is the average hardware equipment of those customers compared to the hardcore-fans?
• What is the average ED related frustration tolerance of those customers compared to to the hardcore-fans?

Let us then imagine a fictitious (non-preorder) customer:

• Has bought elite because has heard/read about it and want to give it a try.
• Doesn't own a joystick because why? It costs money, no game (played) needs it, it takes up space and collects dust, and is something which is used by those 'strange simulator people'.
• Has a multiple games to play, but not really enough time for all.
• Is used to games which provide fast initial success.
• Has friend, and the friends have other friends, and they are talking about how much fun a game is and which game to buy next.

And now imagine what will happen on average when this person encounters the ED mouse control as it is implemented at the moment...
Tip: On average one happy customer will acquire 1/3 new customer, but one unhappy customer will cause 11 non-customers.
​

 

[Memnoch]

No other space flight sim does it this way.

This isn't a flight sim though. Don't compare this to FSX because they are not the same type of game.

I hope you learn to enjoy the game as the rest of us have.

 

[huwthomas]

Really? That's all you have got from this thread?

No i don't want the ship to fly for me, I want the ship to fly the same as every other space sim ever has since the original Elite games. I don't think it's all that much to ask.

Actually it is, since the real "ask" is for the one game that currenly works for us pitch/roll players to have that feature taken away, and made just like the others.

You're also suggesting that FD should stop making the game they (and the backers who understood what was intended) want to make, and cater to the mass market. But the best games for players, IME, are the ones made the way the creator wanted to make them, driven by passion and not bean-counting.

I understand that you feel you've wasted you're money. I think that lots of people who have backed both ED and SC will feel they've wasted money on one or other, since the flight model is a pretty polarising issue. Maybe you'll get your money back ... I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, from CIG, so I'm holding out for the game to be a massive success that in a few years I'll be able to retire on the proceeds of selling my vintage LTI hulls

 

[Corralis]

I agree with OP.

While the thread title is not the most polite, it is exactly what i was thinking when i tried ED using mouse and KB.

In my opinion the mouse roll/pitch control style is not just illogical, it is anti-logical and anti-intuitive. This is not contradicted by the fact that it can be used effectively with enough training. I will not spend part of my lifetime adapting to such a cumbersome interface. Instead i will try to survive with the nerfed yaw/pich mode and the non-functional 'Yaw-Roll Button' feature for now.

Please be aware, the complaints are about the mouse control as it is implemented at the moment, and not about elite core-design-feature of roll/pitch control. I expect that using a joystick the control style will be (way more) intuitive.

I can understand that veterans get annoyed with complaints about feature which are part of the core identity of the game. But a reaction in the spirit of "shut-up, go home and play SC" is elitist and arrogant. And this attitude is dangerous:

• How much game units have to be sold for it to be a (financial) success and Frontier be able to continue with developing it?
• How much of those are sold to the early-adopters/hardcore-fans, and how much will have to be sold to 'normal' customers?
• What is the average hardware equipment of those customers compared to the hardcore-fans?
• What is the average ED related frustration tolerance of those customers compared to to the hardcore-fans?

Let us then imagine a fictitious (non-preorder) customer:

• Has bought elite because has heard/read about it and want to give it a try.
• Doesn't own a joystick because why? It costs money, no game (played) needs it, it takes up space and collects dust, and is something which is used by those 'strange simulator people'.
• Has a multiple games to play, but not really enough time for all.
• Is used to games which provide fast initial success.
• Has friend, and the friends have other friends, and they are talking about how much fun a game is and which game to buy next.

And now imagine what will happen on average when this person encounters the ED mouse control as it is implemented at the moment...
Tip: On average one happy customer will acquire 1/3 new customer, but one unhappy customer will cause 11 non-customers.
​

That's a good point, If I hadn't woke up today in a much better mood, I would have probably not given the game another try and because I am also part of a 200 man fleet in Star Citizen (or will be when it is released properly), I could have gone and told all them not to bother with this game. Not everyone would listen but some might have.

On a completely unrelated matter, I have just tried the game out again and had a play with the controls. I have set mouse mode to absolute pitch/roll, put lateral movement on the WASD keys and throttle on my mouse wheel and I have killed the guy from mission 3 first attempt. It wasn't pretty and my ship took quite a bit of damage but I got him

Now I just need to figure out the rest of the controls for power distribution.

 

[Vikinger]

That makes no sense, why would any sane person decide to control their ship that way?

Because that is how a normal aircraft is handled. Whit pitch and yaw.
Rudders are just used for correctional of heading and to keep the aircraft coordinated through a turn so it does not "skid" And to keep altitude
through a turn.

 

[Memnoch]

I must admit that I never tried playing the games with a mouse as it never occurred to me that it was viable control method for a space vehicle.

I did try to play ED with M/K while my Warthog was on order. It felt no better or worse than it did when I was playing other games that involved flight. But the HOTAS definitely shows you what you are missing.

 

[Corralis]

Actually it is, since the real "ask" is for the one game that currenly works for us pitch/roll players to have that feature taken away, and made just like the others.

You're also suggesting that FD should stop making the game they (and the backers who understood what was intended) want to make, and cater to the mass market. But the best games for players, IME, are the ones made the way the creator wanted to make them, driven by passion and not bean-counting.

I understand that you feel you've wasted you're money. I think that lots of people who have backed both ED and SC will feel they've wasted money on one or other, since the flight model is a pretty polarising issue. Maybe you'll get your money back ... I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, from CIG, so I'm holding out for the game to be a massive success that in a few years I'll be able to retire on the proceeds of selling my vintage LTI hulls

It's alright now mate, I have had some sleep and I'm all better now. Gonna delete my ticket asking for a refund.

P.S. I wonder how much a Super Hornet and Constellation with LTI would get me in a few years?

 

[Memnoch]

No i don't want the ship to fly for me, I want the ship to fly the same as every other space sim ever has since the original Elite games. I don't think it's all that much to ask.

That's a great deal to ask actually, if you think about it.

 

[X2Eliah]

Hm. If there's one thing that this thread highlights above everything else is this:

The game needs better "flight school" mode than the singleplayer combat missions; those could be good for a "flight school part 2" (and really, they need to be balanced a bit to provide normal, smooth challenge ramp-up to draw players in more). Somewhere well-lit, open and reasonably empty with a few reference objects and non-hostile (!) npcs for movement reference.

And a startup question prompt, like:

"Do you want pitch+roll on mouse and yaw on q/e, OR do you want pitch+yaw on mouse and roll on q/e to start with?", to get the fundamental point across, and prevent players from going "***" with Elite's 200+ control entries ^^. Smooth and easy, with gradual increase in complexity...


And I def. feel the OP - I thought much the same at first; Elite's control feel is good, but unconventional, and initially it does throw people off for a loop.

 

[Memnoch]

The game needs better "flight school" mode than the singleplayer combat missions; those could be good for a "flight school part 2" (and really, they need to be balanced a bit to provide normal, smooth challenge ramp-up to draw players in more). Somewhere well-lit, open and reasonably empty with a few reference objects and non-hostile (!) npcs for movement reference.

You are right, of course. But here's a question:

How many of the people who play the game for 5 minutes and then jump all over the forums to complain and moan about it being too hard, or the flight model is wrong etc. are actually going to bother to spend the time learning to fly?

Very few I expect. That's too much like hard work. They just want to jump in, fly around like they were borne to it and "pwn n00bs". They quickly find out that isn't going to happen, and since it cannot possibly be them that are at fault, "coz they are teh l33t", the game is simply broken.

 

[AtomicHorror]

I don't know if it's productive to continuing to quote the OP from many hours ago. The thread has moved on. We've already had the arguments out, OPs giving the game another chance, and he's even apologised for the aggressive tone!

 

[huwthomas]

I will attempt to learn how to fly in Elite as I've been waiting too long for the game to just give up after an hour.

Good for you, I hope your perseverance will pay off

 

[Corralis]

Does anyone know why I have to play a combat scenario before I can play Multi-player? The box has a red line round it and doesn't go away till I play one of the missions.

 

[huwthomas]

Does anyone know why I have to play a combat scenario before I can play Multi-player? The box has a red line round it and doesn't go away till I play one of the missions.

I don't think it's meant to do that, maybe it's just taking a while to negotiate a connection with the server, and playing a mission allows the required time?