ruling about relative mouse is out

[Cmdr Snuffler]

And how did you get your Vulture to reverse at an increased rate in FA Off?

Did you boost forward then flip 180 degrees?

Your ship is not reversing, it's just flipped and continuing on its original vector.

No, at no point did my ship move forward and I did not use boost. From being stationary I just kept throttle at full reverse and pressed the FA toggle key. no pitch, no roll, no yaw, no stick movement at all.

Data from lateral and vertical thrusters both have the same speed caps in FA-On:

FA-On Max Lateral/Vertical Speed: 283mps
FA-Off Max Lateral/Vertical Speed: 353mps

Basically all thrust vectors are capped in FA-On.

This is REALLY easy to test, anyone can do it. Don't understand why people don't think Fa-On is capped....this has been in the game since alpha/beta

 

[besieger]

my ships must be broken...

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

my ships must be broken...

Why. Are they reverse speeds in Fa-Off/On?
In your case there's roughly an 8% difference....but a G5 engineered vulture has a huge difference between FA-On/Off.
So now you believe they are capped?

 

[besieger]

Why. Are they reverse speeds in Fa-Off/On?
In your case there's roughly an 8% difference....but a G5 engineered vulture has a huge difference between FA-On/Off.
So now you believe they are capped?

again its not capped the FA ON version is countering the thrust as is intended... FA OFF doesn't.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

again its not capped the FA ON version is countering the thrust as is intended... FA OFF doesn't.

lol...o.....k.
The countering thrust is coded in to cap the max speed. *sigh*
End of the day you can go MUCH faster in reverse, laterally and vertically when in FA-Off compared to On. FACT.
I don't care how you dress this up.

...and if my memory serves me correctly FD even described this as being a cap back in the day.

 

[777Driver]

lol...o.....k.
The countering thrust is coded in to cap the max speed. *sigh*
End of the day you can go MUCH faster in reverse, laterally and vertically when in FA-Off compared to On. FACT.
I don't care how you dress this up.

...and if my memory serves me correctly FD even described this as being a cap back in the day.

What you describe is correct, actually forgot about that one.

Anyway, back home, uploading 2 vids to demonstrate those other 2 slight advantages besieger seems incapable of wrapping his head around. 1: Maintaining 4 PIP ENG velocity without any PIPS to ENG whilst FA-OFF (kinda surprised he doesn't understand that, it is the basis of FA-OFF (the devs nerfed the boost maintain a little after gamma release) Second vid is the FA-OFF acceleration manoeuvring curve along yaw/pitch/roll.. Higher curve FA-OFF

In fairness to him, I reckon it might be different for KB/M users, so perhaps he has never known any of this, still no excuse to tell us to learn how things work, I know the flight logic like the back of my hand, it is how I have stayed alive in crappy freighters for the past 4 years whilst playing this game

Bottom line, this may be highlighting some clear advantages for KB/M users


Edit - First vid, had a freighter full of cargo so couldn't switch to a faster ship. Can't believe I am even posting this, thought it was obvious to everyone, you can maintain 4 PIPS to shields (or any combination) whilst cruising at max engine PIP velocity in FA-OFF.

[video=youtube_share;KnA-6Pco0Bc]https://youtu.be/KnA-6Pco0Bc[/video]


Only used Yaw as an example, don't have much time this evening, can post another vid if I get some free time. @Winter, click on my channel to find some FA-OFF vids, am pretty much 100% FA-OFF except brief ON stabilisation in combat, most of my stuff is about freighter survival techniques, have a bunch of long videos on my PC, never bothered uploading them, am not a youtuber or streamer.

[video=youtube_share;LG_27DQS_eA]https://youtu.be/LG_27DQS_eA[/video]

None of this means FA-OFF is better than FA-ON pilots, as Besieger rightly says, it is down to skill, and as I always say , experience Don't be afraid to see a rebuy screen, that is how you learn.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

None of this means FA-OFF is better than FA-ON pilots, as Besieger rightly says, it is down to skill, and as I always say , experience Don't be afraid to see a rebuy screen, that is how you learn.

Yup, pros and cons for both.
Back in alpha I hardly used FA-Off, but other cmdrs swore blind that I was an FA-Off demon! Even to this day I have to explain to people I almost always used FA-On during alpha.
Truth is you can do a lot in FA-On that is close to FA-Off.

I've also said a few times since alpha that having two modes, which are so black and white, is not ideal...and personally I don't like.
What I'd like to see if one flight model, with dampener sliders.
One slider for each vector: forward/backwards, yaw, vertical, lateral, pitch, roll
This means I can customise my flight model entirely. "FA-Off" forward/backwards and everything else with a mid range dampener.

 

[Kilo]

*head explodes*
I bet that's frustrating if someone else tries to play...like having a go at an FPS when someone doesn't have the vertical inverted so you just end up looking at your feet in a fire fight

Yes!!! I play some other games with my wife and in-laws and they always get confused then turn off and invert. When I get it back it is such a mess ... oh why is up down and down up? Because that's how it should be.

 

[Morbad]

End of the day you can go MUCH faster in reverse, laterally and vertically when in FA-Off compared to On. FACT.

Each vector has it's own velocity cap, but the hard limiter only kicks in at the forward velocity cap.

Diagonal movement using no forward thrust can be just as fast FA On as FA Off. Even reverse speed can be extended a fair bit this way, just not to the same degree because the reverse thrust cap is more severe.

those other 2 slight advantages

Those are the main advantages, at least if you have sufficient control axes to allow full independent control over translational and rotational movement.

 

[Han_Zen]

Yup, pros and cons for both.
Back in alpha I hardly used FA-Off, but other cmdrs swore blind that I was an FA-Off demon! Even to this day I have to explain to people I almost always used FA-On during alpha.
Truth is you can do a lot in FA-On that is close to FA-Off.

I've also said a few times since alpha that having two modes, which are so black and white, is not ideal...and personally I don't like.
What I'd like to see if one flight model, with dampener sliders.
One slider for each vector: forward/backwards, yaw, vertical, lateral, pitch, roll
This means I can customise my flight model entirely. "FA-Off" forward/backwards and everything else with a mid range dampener.

The sliders would be a nice option.

It’s not like FA-Off is anything like ‘manual thruster’ controll in space, as it is. It is already limited to a fixed max speed on all axis. Both directional and rotational.

 

[Hellfire85]

Did a little test...

Vulture, G5 DD (drag drives), 387.6t. Max boost speed at 568m/s

Thrust up in FA-ON after a full stop, no rotation, empty space, no gravity, 4pips to ENG.

Speed caps at 276/277

Same test in FA-OFF: slightly better acceleration (around 1sec faster) speed goes way up to max speed without boost, so 351m/s

So FA-OFF removes the speed cap on directional thrusters.

During combat or rather in addition to forward/backwards movement, this cap is inexistent.

But maybe that also depends on the ship as well.

As for that relative mouse thing... dunno, I use Stick and Keypad

And before anyone asks, I fly mostly full FA-OFF. I only use FA-ON to brake or for quick vector changes.

 

[Winter Jasra]

@Winter, click on my channel to find some FA-OFF vids, am pretty much 100% FA-OFF except brief ON stabilisation in combat, most of my stuff is about freighter survival techniques, have a bunch of long videos on my PC, never bothered uploading them, am not a youtuber or streamer.

Lol, ok since this is a competition for knowledge, I am 100% FA-OFF and have been for some time

 

[Madrax573]

There is two noticeable difference that I've seen since switching to FA-off.

Thruster input is additive in FA-off. i.e. if you thrust left and up you'll get twice the trust in FA-off. With FA-on you only get max thrust of 1 set of thrusters. Makes FA-off thruster manoeuvres more definitive.

Lateral thrusters slow you down quicker with FA-on. So if you are Fa-off and applying full lateral thrust and want to stop you'll stop quickly by activating FA and 0 throttle than you will just by applying reverse lateral thrust.

Outside of these two 'differences' the only thing stopping you flying how you want with FA-off is you....

 

[Morbad]

Thruster input is additive in FA-off. i.e. if you thrust left and up you'll get twice the trust in FA-off.

Unless they've changed it very recently, FA On is the same here. You thrust up and left and you'll hit the forward thrust speed cap, not the vertical or lateral thrust speed cap.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

I was originally going to make a lengthy post in response to the topic, but now I'd rather grab some popcorn and watch this thread unfold instead.

It's like a zoo crossed with a dumpster fire.

 

[nanite2000]

I was originally going to make a lengthy post in response to the topic, but now I'd rather grab some popcorn and watch this thread unfold instead.

It's like a zoo crossed with a dumpster fire.

Thank you for your “contribution”.

 

[VincentUK]

I was originally going to make a lengthy post in response to the topic

I'd actually be really interested in this, since you understand the game better than most.

 

[Sylveria]

But... what if the mouse isn't related? Does it change the argument?

 

[znôrt]

sorry for being on, durr, vacation and not returning to this thread earlier.

By your logic, analogue flight sticks, which automatically self-centre after each movement (i.e. HOTAS), need to go too.

OP you still need to provide opposite input to halt your motion.

Or just force mouse players to centre themselves. This is mechanical on a HOTAS. Why should it not be so if playing with a mouse? Oh, that's right - it's convenient. Moreover, the auto-centre with a high-dpi sensor controlled by the fingers rather than the wrist and arm is a further advantage.

Seems like OP needs further reflection again.

yes, upon further reflection i'm going to postpone the ruling indefinitely while i continue reflecting on my reflection turns out this is a really complex and multi faceted issue.

i hope the title already gave away it was a bit of a trollish thing too. nice and interesting discussion, though, and many valid points.

I was originally going to make a lengthy post in response to the topic, but now I'd rather grab some popcorn and watch this thread unfold instead.

that's too bad.

 

[dfgqsb]

I was originally going to make a lengthy post in response to the topic, but now I'd rather grab some popcorn and watch this thread unfold instead.

It's like a zoo crossed with a dumpster fire.

Want some beer? Or something strong? I have some nice Chinese spirit.