Running away from PvP, ship malfunctions as soon as shields go down

[Cageman]

Logging out of the game using the menu is not a cheat. Period.

For you pirates out there striving to earn a living...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/275875-How-to-pirate-low-temperature-diamonds

Enough said.

 

[Hitsuke]

Dude, it's very different when a pirate interdicts you and when a ganker interdicts you. If they're so traumatized by gankers that they combat log the moment they get interdicted they don't belong in open, it really is that simple. When a pirate interdicts you will not be immediately fired upon, you will most likely be told to remain still while the pirate performs a manifest scan and once the scan is done you will be demanded to jettison a percentage of your cargo [or all of it in extreme cases]. If you follow those demands you will not be harmed, the only time a pirate will fire at you is if you don't listen.

It will be pretty obvious from the start that a pirate is not a ganker since he/she will actually be talking to you instead of firing making holes in your hull. Combat logs during piracy mostly happen after the aforementioned demands and messages due to the trader not following instructions and instead tries to flee, often by attempting a low wake, and then the combat log happens after a certain amount of damage which can vary from shields still being up to low hull.

Of course if everyone played proper pirate the amount of combat loggers would be lower, but that's not going to happen. And when a pirate interdicts you it should be obvious it isn't a griefer. People who combat log during a legit piracy attempt are just greedy scum who can't handle losing a few tons, and then have to cheat their way out of a situation they had all the means to avoid in the first place.

I'm not going to disagree with the majority of what you're saying here, and I agree for the most part. However I've heard of plenty of instances where traders have followed instructions, yet they've still been blown up for "lols". Just like the combat community, the trader community tend to talk amongst each other (Most trade websites have chat functions, as I'm sure you're aware) and it only takes one or two stories to put the cat amongst the pigeons. There are reasons why people combat log, and you've listed a few yourself (greed etc) but that's not always the case, and for some the old adage of "once bitten, twice shy" can probably be applied.

 

[Buliel]

It will be pretty obvious from the start that a pirate is not a ganker since he/she will actually be talking to you instead of firing making holes in your hull. Combat logs during piracy mostly happen after the aforementioned demands and messages due to the trader not following instructions and instead tries to flee, often by attempting a low wake, and then the combat log happens after a certain amount of damage which can vary from shields still being up to low hull.

Unfortunately, I have seen the kind of ganker that acts like a pirate at the beginning, then fully opens fire on the victim when they stop, not asking or having asked for cargo drops.

 

[Mendaharin Tusca]

So from what I understand, if trying to run away after my shield dropped and:
1) the attacker is in a faster ship (e.g. FDL)
2) the attacker has a single fixed pulse laser with scramble spectrum special effect

It is very likely that I won't be able to charge FSD ever due to random malfunctions of FSD itself or thrusters (which makes it impossible to align with escape vector). There is no defense against fixed pulse lasers. Scramble spectrum causes malfunctions even if modules are at 100% health so MRPs don't have any effect.

And most PvP players are fine with scramble spectrum. Am I the only one who thinks it is a bit overpowered in this situation? I know that it does nothing while shield is up so it's no threat at all to players who have the ship and skill to not lose shields ever, but for the rest of the player base it seems like a guaranteed rebuy.

don't know if it was a bug or not, but used to be even worse, these malfunctions triggered even with shields up, and even a malfunctioning cargoscoop was enough to prevent a jump.

 

[STARB0YY]

I'm not going to disagree with the majority of what you're saying here, and I agree for the most part. However I've heard of plenty of instances where traders have followed instructions, yet they've still been blown up for "lols". Just like the combat community, the trader community tend to talk amongst each other (Most trade websites have chat functions, as I'm sure you're aware) and it only takes one or two stories to put the cat amongst the pigeons. There are reasons why people combat log, and you've listed a few yourself (greed etc) but that's not always the case, and for some the old adage of "once bitten, twice shy" can probably be applied.

Unfortunately, I have seen the kind of ganker that acts like a pirate at the beginning, then fully opens fire on the victim when they stop, not asking or having asked for cargo drops.

I have heard reports of that before but only on this forum, and always as a from people who i've debated with about combat logging lol. But i'm sure that does happen, although I think it's relatively rare. If you're gonna gank people don't hide behind a piracy excuse, that serves no purpose other than further worsening pirates reputation in this game. At the very least the majority of gankers will fire without a word of communication sent, I doubt many go through the piracy steps if the only real intention is to kill.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Combat logging the legit way is still combat logging, you can't tell me that logging out during combat isn't combat logging. Using the menu to combat log is still a combat log, and the fact that Fdev doesn't recognize it as such is extremely silly. They could still say it's legal but christ at least admit it is what it is.

Also I don't know if you're directly implying I have bad etiquette in game but it sounds like it. I'm a pirate and never shoot at anyone unless they give me reason to (attack me, don't comply with demands etc) but I wouldn't say that simply attacking someone is poor etiquette, that's part of the game and advertised as such. And the moment you combat log without the timer you are exploiting, couldn't care less if you are ganged up on by 5 cutters at that point you are downright exploiting.

If you are willing to log out of the game in order to avoid combat then don't go into open, it's really that simple. Task killing is obviously a real cheat and menu logging is an extremely cheap way to escape a situation.

Also for you people who claim that it's so difficult to escape an encounter, if you outfit your ship right with a good shield and good defense measures (point defense, chaff etc) and high wake it's very hard to kill you before you wake. There is a really good video on this subject that the forum mods unfortunately don't like so I cant post it, but it's the trading guide to open made by Rinzler. I recommend you give it a watch if you feel PvP encounters are impossible to escape.

It's not really the same thing, with a menu logger you get the time it takes while the person fumbles to the menu and then 15 seconds of their ship being entirely inactive to destroy them. With combat logging their ship just disappears as soon as they kill the task. That's why one is legal one is not.

I'll agree that high waking is just as easy and safer than menu logging, which really only says that menu logging isn't something worth getting mad about. With a high wake I can take evasive action and deploy defensive countermeasures while lining up to jump. With menu logging you get 15+ seconds of sitting duck to shoot at. Whether I decide to high wake or menu log to go make a coffee, feed the cat or chat with the missus is no skin off your nose either way.

 

[babelfisch]

Dude, it's very different when a pirate interdicts you and when a ganker interdicts you. If they're so traumatized by gankers that they combat log the moment they get interdicted they don't belong in open, it really is that simple. When a pirate interdicts you will not be immediately fired upon, you will most likely be told to remain still while the pirate performs a manifest scan and once the scan is done you will be demanded to jettison a percentage of your cargo [or all of it in extreme cases]. If you follow those demands you will not be harmed, the only time a pirate will fire at you is if you don't listen.

It will be pretty obvious from the start that a pirate is not a ganker since he/she will actually be talking to you instead of firing making holes in your hull. Combat logs during piracy mostly happen after the aforementioned demands and messages due to the trader not following instructions and instead tries to flee, often by attempting a low wake, and then the combat log happens after a certain amount of damage which can vary from shields still being up to low hull.

Of course if everyone played proper pirate the amount of combat loggers would be lower, but that's not going to happen. And when a pirate interdicts you it should be obvious it isn't a griefer. People who combat log during a legit piracy attempt are just greedy scum who can't handle losing a few tons, and then have to cheat their way out of a situation they had all the means to avoid in the first place.

Please remember that this is completely hypothetical, I don't combat log, I don't exit to the main menu, I play solo most of the time and when I play in open and someone decides to destroy me for no reason I let it happen - and play solo for the next weeks again:

If you can't accept that people are going to stop playing with you in legitimate ways, don't play in open. Open is the everything goes mode, this includes asymmetric PvP, competitive PvP and people who don't want to play with you. The play your own way argument goes both ways, it doesn't mean everyone needs to play your way.

That said, I agree that logging during competitive PvP is cancer. I also agree that everyone else should either live (or die...) with the consequences or play in solo. That's what I do, if I don't feel like I want to be your content I'll just play in a different mode. However, that doesn't mean that nobody is allowed to use the menu, it's unfortunate but not wrong.

 

[babelfisch]

Everyone who has a problem with cheats has a problem with combat logging.

I'd also wager that most combat loggers are 'gankers'. Maybe my views are skewed by mostly fighting in self defense, or in the defense of other CMDRs, but fully eight in ten of the intentional disconnects I've seen (and I've seen dozens, if not hundreds) are from those who started the fight.

Regardless, there is zero justification for it. It's the explicit use of out illegitimate out of game means to influence in-game occurrences; a blatant example of cheating.



This is only true if you're in a position for your thrusters to be attacked.

If I'm trying to escape, I normally make sure I'm facing my most threatening attacker until my FSD is almost fully charged, then I boost and line up with my destination.

Of course, it's still imprudent to allow your shields to fail if you have fragile hull or subsystems.

And every ship has room for an MRP or two.

You are either wrong or you misunderstood, we are not talking about pulling the plug but about logging out to the menu using the 15 second timer. The reason the term combat logging keeps coming up is because some people on this thread say using the menu and pulling the plug is the same thing. It's not.

 

[Ca$hback]

I bet about 30% of the posts are on topic, if I'm being generous.

 

[babelfisch]

I bet about 30% of the posts are on topic, if I'm being generous.

The topic was solved on page 1.

PS
And yes, it's less than 30%...

 

[Ca$hback]

The topic was solved on page 1.

PS
And yes, it's less than 30%...

Am I not generous?

 

[StarfireIX]

If my shield goes down, I immediately get either FSD or thruster malfunction.

Sounds like they were targeting your subsystems. It is possible that the weapons that were fired probably damaged the thrusters while you were escaping.

however...

Afterwards I saw that my thrusters were at 98% and all other modules at 100%.

It seems clear that the person was using scramble spectrum. If you were constantly getting these malfunctions, then it appears to be the same guy doing this to you. Scramble Spectrum only causes malfunctions upon hull strikes, so you are perfectly fine when your shields are up.

Is it players targeting modules while NPCs don't? Can I predict this if I check enemy ship modules?

Definitely. PvPers will likely target your FSD and Power Plant to prevent you from escaping. Very cruel, but effective for them. If they run things such as pulse lasers or burst lasers, then you'll know what special effects they have.

Is there a reliable way to prevent the malfunctions? Either through outfitting, flying skill or just running away earlier?

Yes. If you have Horizons and you are willing to do a relentless grind, then you will have to unlock Didi Vatermann to get powerful G5 Heavy Duty Shield Boosters. Also grind for Professor Palin to get G5 Dirty Drives for A-rated thrusters. They can improve your speed by 100m/s or more. If the person attacking you is in something deadly, such as a FDL or Corvette, then high wake somewhere immediately (they can mass lock you for low waking, resulting in a slow and painful death).

 

[Daffan]

If you can last 15 seconds, just log out using the menu. It's legal, and FD approves!

Seriously.

Or just press High Wake. It's just as overpowered and a garbage mechanic.

 

[babelfisch]

Or just press High Wake. It's just as overpowered and a garbage mechanic.

Not at all.

 

[signal11th]

Don't play in open, it's pretty pointless in there anyway.

 

[Morbad]

However I've heard of plenty of instances where traders have followed instructions, yet they've still been blown up for "lols".

Don't follow instructions. Make sure you have the ability (both in personal piloting skill and a sensible ship loadout) to resist and escape, or avoid areas of likely trouble.

 

[WR3ND]

...

Unless something's changed recently that I'm not aware of, technically 1 and 2 should be fine. You just want 1 under 50% power draw.

Beyond that you would just want lower and higher priorities if you don't have a sufficiently powerful power plant. So for example, having your fuel scoop become disabled so you can use your cargo hatch, but having your cargo hatch turned off by default. Things like that.

Here's an example of what I mean. Shields can't fit in the first priority with the trusters and FSD, so they get moved to the second, while other things that are perhaps someone less important can, so they can be moved to the first... https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/pyt...luv///zPO+wsk/wMAZo83ySsAAAA=&bn=The Emissary

 

[Morbad]

Unless something's changed recently that I'm not aware of, technically 1 and 2 should be fine. You just want 1 under 50% power draw.

Beyond that you would just want lower and higher priorities if you don't have a sufficiently powerful power plant. So for example, having your fuel scoop become disabled so you can use your cargo hatch, but having your cargo hatch turned off by default. Things like that.

Here's an example of what I mean. Shields can't fit in the first priority, so they get moved to the second, while other things that are perhaps someone less important can, so they can be moved to the first... https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/pyt...luv///zPO+wsk/wMAZo83ySsAAAA=&bn=The Emissary

50% is the power output you get after a destroyed PP has stabilized. Mailfunctions as the PP takes damage are 40% power and there is a dip to 20% power when the PP first hits 0% integrity.

On my typical Corvette setup, I keep my FSD and bi-weave shields at priority 1, so neither of them have to reboot and my shield will keep charging (if the generator is intact) if the PP should reach 0. Priority 2 is my thrusters, and while they will be off for a split second if the PP reaches zero, thrusters have no boot time, so this is largely irrelevant. Anything else that's useful but not absolutely critical fits below that 50% output marker.

If at all possible trade ships should see that FSD and thrusters, at the very least, fit below 40% output.

 

[WR3ND]

50% is the power output you get after a destroyed PP has stabilized. Mailfunctions as the PP takes damage are 40% power and there is a dip to 20% power when the PP first hits 0% integrity.

On my typical Corvette setup, I keep my FSD and bi-weave shields at priority 1, so neither of them have to reboot and my shield will keep charging (if the generator is intact) if the PP should reach 0. Priority 2 is my thrusters, and while they will be off for a split second if the PP reaches zero, thrusters have no boot time, so this is largely irrelevant. Anything else that's useful but not absolutely critical fits below that 50% output marker.

If at all possible trade ships should see that FSD and thrusters, at the very least, fit below 40% output.

OK, thanks. So there's more to it then. I haven't lost a ship in over a year, so I'm not very familiar with the mechanics beyond theory.

In the build I linked to, I suppose a trader should have a bigger power plant, assuming they want to play in open.

 

[STARB0YY]

It's not really the same thing, with a menu logger you get the time it takes while the person fumbles to the menu and then 15 seconds of their ship being entirely inactive to destroy them. With combat logging their ship just disappears as soon as they kill the task. That's why one is legal one is not.

I'll agree that high waking is just as easy and safer than menu logging, which really only says that menu logging isn't something worth getting mad about. With a high wake I can take evasive action and deploy defensive countermeasures while lining up to jump. With menu logging you get 15+ seconds of sitting duck to shoot at. Whether I decide to high wake or menu log to go make a coffee, feed the cat or chat with the missus is no skin off your nose either way.

But you see when you interdict someone as a pirate and tell them to remain still and they do, only to see their ship magically disappear while you think they are complying after 15 seconds that is a bit frustrating right? I'm not shooting at them, they are remaining still seemingly following instructions, while in reality they waiting for the timer. How do I counter that? If someone tries to menu log when i'm shooting at them they won't make it, the damage done in 15 seconds will destroy them. But when they menu log in the early stages of a piracy attempt they will succeed in doing so since it's impossible to tell if that's what they are trying to do, perhaps if it is one day possible to see if a player is in the menu through some sort of symbol or something it will be easier. But as it stands you can pathetically enough log out while the pirate thinks you are following instructions.

In 15 seconds i'll barely manage to do a cargo scan, so someone who uses this extremely cheap ''tactic'' will escape with no cargo lost and no damage taken.