RV Sonnenkreis - Decoding Universal Cartographics

Thanks for the detailed information, I'll look into it.

...hang on a moment, I'm confused, are you using the updated, program-generated, complete Google Docs version (this link) or one of the older ones? Ignore any of the older incomplete hand-authored maps now. :)

The Google Docs one doesn't have absolute coordinates on it at the moment, but I'll add them when I get some time. It's easy enough to work out from the relative sector positions though.

I was more than likely using the old ones .... the link in my post at 7.24pm ... I was unaware of another more updated version, and being at work I can't access Google Docs (access denied) so will have a look when home tomorrow.
Hope I haven't caused a fluster :)
 
I was more than likely using the old ones .... the link in my post at 7.24pm ... I was unaware of another more updated version, and being at work I can't access Google Docs (access denied) so will have a look when home tomorrow.
Hope I haven't caused a fluster :)

Thanks for the detailed information, I'll look into it.

...hang on a moment, I'm confused, are you using the updated, program-generated, complete Google Docs version (this link) or one of the older ones? Ignore any of the older incomplete hand-authored maps now. :)

The Google Docs one doesn't have absolute coordinates on it at the moment, but I'll add them when I get some time. It's easy enough to work out from the relative sector positions though.

Managed to get a look via my phone. Using Tosia as the example (our destination for the BV Exped) EDTS has it as -36545,615,43095 (x,y,z)
but your Google Docs version has it, on the plane 0, at -30,34 (x,z) which is a huge difference.
 
The only entry in EDSM for the Tosia sector is at -37274, 63.5625, 42563.9375, which I think is within the expected bounds.
 
I've had another look at this, pretty much convinced I must be missing something as your obviously math genius' given what you have done, and I'm not!
Am I right in saying the figures given on your spreadsheet need to be multiplied by 1280? This puts the Tosia example much nearer.
If this is so, would it not be best to have the boxes on the sheet at 1280 intervals and not 1000?
 
The boxes are indeed 1280x1280x1280 cubes, and there's also a slight offset because Sol isn't in the corner of the sector it's in. I believe the bottom,front,left co-ordinates for Wregoe (Sol's sector) are -65,-25,-1065.
The cube co-ordinates for Tosia are -30,0,34. Multiplying these up by 1280 and allowing for the offset gives a bottom-front-left co-ordinate for the sector as -38465,-25,42455. The top-back-right co-ordinate is -37185,1255,43735. The co-ordinate from EDSM falls within this window, though the X co-ordinate for yours (-36545,615,43095) doesn't - I'm not sure where that coordinate came from though.


Edit: In fact, we can go further on the EDSM coordinate. We know from Jackie's previous work that "TA-S b4-0" will be at a "local" co-ordinate of 1190,90,110 (+/- 10) in a given sector (relative to bottom-front-left of sector). Adding this to corner of Tosia gives -37275,65,42565, with a margin of 10LY in any direction. Tosia TA-S b4-0 is at -37274, 63.5625, 42563.9375, very much within our 10LY window.
 
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The boxes are indeed 1280x1280x1280 cubes, and there's also a slight offset because Sol isn't in the corner of the sector it's in. I believe the bottom,front,left co-ordinates for Wregoe (Sol's sector) are -65,-25,-1065.
The cube co-ordinates for Tosia are -30,0,34. Multiplying these up by 1280 and allowing for the offset gives a bottom-front-left co-ordinate for the sector as -38465,-25,42455. The top-back-right co-ordinate is -37185,1255,43735. The co-ordinate from EDSM falls within this window, though the X co-ordinate for yours (-36545,615,43095) doesn't - I'm not sure where that coordinate came from though.


Edit: In fact, we can go further on the EDSM coordinate. We know from Jackie's previous work that "TA-S b4-0" will be at a "local" co-ordinate of 1190,90,110 (+/- 10) in a given sector (relative to bottom-front-left of sector). Adding this to corner of Tosia gives -37275,65,42565, with a margin of 10LY in any direction. Tosia TA-S b4-0 is at -37274, 63.5625, 42563.9375, very much within our 10LY window.

Error by me, the X co-ord was for Tosie not Tosia. My bad, sorry.
Being a real pain in the ass, just trying to get my head round it properly. The cube co-ords, ie Tosia 30,0,34 .. is that the centre of the cube?
I'm beginning to see why you can't make the spreadsheet 1280 sectors now.
 
No worries, I've banged my head on the desk with this stuff many times trying to understand it :)

-30,0,34 isn't really the center of the sector as such... no more so than saying that's true for Wregoe at 0,0,0. But we do know that the major sectors are 1280x1280x1280 cubes, so all -30,0,34 is telling us is that Tosia is 30 cubes left of Wregoe and 34 cubes back from Wregoe. Wregoe itself isn't centered - if it was, we'd expect it to stretch from -640,-640,-640 to 640,640,640 - but it doesn't. Sol is not the center of Wregoe, it's in the corner which means Wregoe stretches from -65,-25,-1065 to 1215, 1255, 215 making it centered on 575, 615, -425. From here, we can work out the center of other sectors from the cube co-ordinates and multiplying up by 1280 and adding the origin above.

i.e., if you have the cube co-ordinates of a given sector as cx,cy,cz, the actual coordinates for the center of the sector will be:
((1280 * cx) + 575), ((1280 * cy) + 615), ((1280 * cz) - 425)

For me though, it was easier to get my head around it all using the bottom-front-left corner of the cubes.
 
Not sure if this is actually of interest / help to anyone but a few days ago I spent some time in the Eephaik sector. I mapped out all of the stars in the cubes:

AA-A H (80 systems. nb for some reason H0 through H4 don't exist)
AA-A G (19)
EG-Y G (19)
FG-Y G (29)
AA-A F (7)
AA-A E (15)
AA-A D (43)
BA-A D (45)
YE-A D (49)
IO-Z D13 (75)
EK-C D14 (only D14-0 to D14-25 - total number in the cube is some 1650!)

Might be of interest to anyone looking to determine how systems are placed within cubes. I've not written down all the co-ords but they should be easy enough to get from the EDSM data dump.
 
Not sure if this is actually of interest / help to anyone but a few days ago I spent some time in the Eephaik sector. I mapped out all of the stars in the cubes:

AA-A H (80 systems. nb for some reason H0 through H4 don't exist)
AA-A G (19)
EG-Y G (19)
FG-Y G (29)
AA-A F (7)
AA-A E (15)
AA-A D (43)
BA-A D (45)
YE-A D (49)
IO-Z D13 (75)
EK-C D14 (only D14-0 to D14-25 - total number in the cube is some 1650!)

Might be of interest to anyone looking to determine how systems are placed within cubes. I've not written down all the co-ords but they should be easy enough to get from the EDSM data dump.

I'd like to use a similar technique to map the density inside a sector - if we assume that for a typical sector density varies only with distance from the core, then mapping a vertical slice through the sector from its inner edge to its outer edge would probably be enlightening. I'll add it to the long list of things I keep meaning to get round to doing... :D
 
Error by me, the X co-ord was for Tosie not Tosia. My bad, sorry.
Being a real pain in the ass, just trying to get my head round it properly. The cube co-ords, ie Tosia 30,0,34 .. is that the centre of the cube?
I'm beginning to see why you can't make the spreadsheet 1280 sectors now.

OK, so for EDTS (at least the web UI) what coordinates get reported depends on what you're doing... If you're just searching by sector, it'll report the origin coordinates - i.e. bottom left of the sector. If you search for a system name, it'll report the centre of that system's possible location, +/- a margin of uncertainty.

As for the spreadsheet: I don't remember what sector coords Jackie used for the row/column headings, but I'm pretty sure they do not match up to anything that EDTS throws out.
EDTS's sector coordinate system has Wregoe (where Sol is) at (0,0,0) and everything is relative to that. The "cube co-ords" as you called them don't really identify any part of a sector (the centre, the origin) - they just identify the sector as a whole, at least how I use them. Once again though, the numbers on Jackie's spreadsheets are almost certainly different to EDTS. :)

Could you let me know if you're using the web version of EDTS or using the pgnames script directly? If it's the latter I can offer more advice, as the data returned gives you more options for what to do with it.
 
OK, so for EDTS (at least the web UI) what coordinates get reported depends on what you're doing... If you're just searching by sector, it'll report the origin coordinates - i.e. bottom left of the sector. If you search for a system name, it'll report the centre of that system's possible location, +/- a margin of uncertainty.

As for the spreadsheet: I don't remember what sector coords Jackie used for the row/column headings, but I'm pretty sure they do not match up to anything that EDTS throws out.
EDTS's sector coordinate system has Wregoe (where Sol is) at (0,0,0) and everything is relative to that. The "cube co-ords" as you called them don't really identify any part of a sector (the centre, the origin) - they just identify the sector as a whole, at least how I use them. Once again though, the numbers on Jackie's spreadsheets are almost certainly different to EDTS. :)

Could you let me know if you're using the web version of EDTS or using the pgnames script directly? If it's the latter I can offer more advice, as the data returned gives you more options for what to do with it.

I was using the web based version. But it is okay now, it was the difference between what was being returned and the spreadsheet grid that i couldn't get my head round, but that has been cleared up for me now by MattG and the *1280.
 
Just dropped in to say that I saw Cmdr Alot's presentation of this at Lavecon (well, most of it) and it's a stirling piece of work! Congratulations ... you've reverse engineered the galaxy. Any chance you could unify this with quantum theory in time for Lavecon 2017?
 
Just dropped in to say that I saw Cmdr Alot's presentation of this at Lavecon (well, most of it) and it's a stirling piece of work! Congratulations ... you've reverse engineered the galaxy. Any chance you could unify this with quantum theory in time for Lavecon 2017?

*grins* Thanks :)

I haven't updated here for a while, so I should summarise what I'm up to at the moment:

1) A survey of catalogue stars - I've been working my way through a large number of stars from the HIP catalogue, seeing which are present in the game, and how closely they correspond to their catalogue details; also seeing which of them people have visited before. Once this is done, I should be able to make much more comprehensive HR diagram and mass-age diagrams of catalogue stars in the game than I've had before. Also looking at how the planets etc. in a catalogue system differ from those in a proc-gen system.
Another side of this is the program I'm using to pull stars out of a downloaded copy of the HIP catalogue - hopefully I can add HD catalogue data to this and sort out when they overlap.

2) A program to guess a proc-gen star's stellar class from its basic parameters - this is going well so far, just needs training up with more data.

3) A survey of stars in SKAUDE sector, taking a look at how the stellar population changes with height below the plane - this is an area where the neutron fields appear at the bottom of the sector, and the difference is drastic. Hopefully this will help lead to a better understanding of how the stars are distributed in the Elite galaxy. I've also been looking at whether there's any difference between stellar remnants in different places across the galaxy with the help of other DISC pilots, but there doesn't seem to be so far.

There's other bits and pieces too we're looking at, still looking at atmospheric composition and heating effects, habitability and planet ice/rock/metal composition, if there's a metallicity effect and so on... 'fraid I get distracted very easily. :)

(edited to add)

I should add - though I hope it was implicit! - the sector naming thing was very much a collaborative affair with Alot, and just about everything I'm doing is a collaboration with someone-or-other. :)

On which note - if anyone fancies helping look at the catalogue stars, I can easily create you a list of potential locations to visit and guarantee that some of them will be unsullied by human tags, let me know!
 
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Here's a link to a full set of sector names for the -3,-2,-1,0,1, and 2 planes of the galaxy. Sol and Sadge on plane 0, which is the first sheet.

Link

You'll see the zero plane has some colouring-in; that's me trying to find the mass distribution across the galaxy, there's a key to it in the upper right on that plane.

There are two sets of coordinates given, one starting with Sadge =(0,0) and one starting with Sol =(0,0). You can find approximate coordinates by multiplying the Sol numbers by 1280.

I haven't looked at the distributions in the other planes yet, it's a tedious business as I'm searching manually.

Some of the grey sectors definitely contain stars, but don't return a hit if you put the sector name into the galmap search box. I'm guessing their highest mass-code systems are D and under.

Links to the source code (use the pgnames branch) and Alot's online system / sector name finding tool.

CMDR Alot has merged his "features/pgnames" branch into his "develop" branch (https://bitbucket.org/Esvandiary/edts/branch/develop)
 
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Just posting this as a quick primer on how the numbering system counts up as several people have asked me recently!
Using the sector EAFOTS out by Heart and Soul as an example. I hear it's very popular in Tionisla these days.

In the name we have various different parts:

EAFOTS AB-C D1-2

EAFOTS - the sector name

A - this counts up through the alphabet as the code increases.
B - this counts up through the alphabet as the code increases.
C - this counts up through the alphabet as the code increases.
1 - this counts up as the code increases. (To begin with, this has a value of zero, and is not displayed in the name - see below.)
When I write this number in examples, if it is in brackets, ignore it.

D - the mass-code, this (usually) indicates the mass of the primary star, from A (lightest) to H (heaviest)

2 - this tells us which particular system it is within the subsector.

When the first number in the name is zero, it is omitted from the displayed name, so that instead of seeing:

EAFOTS AA-A A(0)-0

It is simply displayed as:

EAFOTS AA-A A0

This is why systems along the "south" side of a sector will usually have only one number in their name, while systems along the "north" side will usually have both numbers.

The sector names are also procedurally generated with a similar but more complicated code and big lists of phonemes, and a hash function which chooses between single part and two part names. It's horrible. Fortunately we don't need to go there. :) Ask CMDR Alot. :)

-------

Each sector is a cube 1280ly on each side. For each mass code, the sector is then subdivided into a number of smaller subsectors ("boxels") which are smaller cubes.

For mass code H, there is only one subsector, which takes up the whole sector. This is why mass code H systems are always AA-A H.
For mass code G, there are eight subsectors, cubes of 640ly on each side.
For mass code F, there are sixty-four subsectors, cubes of 320ly on each side.

Right down to mass code A, where there are over 2 million subsectors, cubes of only 10ly on each side.

The numbering system works at this smallest level.

It begins at AA-A A(0)-0 at the "west" "south" "down" corner of the sector.
The next subsector along, one box "east", is BA-A A(0)-0, and the next subsector is CA-A A(0)-0 and so on.
When we get to ZA-A A(0)-0, the next one is AB-A A(0)-0, then BB-A A(0)-0 and so on.
(Similarly when we get to ZZ-A A(0)-0 we move on to AA-B A(0)-0 and when we get to ZZ-Z A(0)-0 we move on to AA-A A1-0. This is the point where the first number starts to be displayed.)
When we get to the end of the row, after 128 boxes, we loop back to a position one subsector "up" from the start, and move along the row above the one we've just done.
We go from XE-A A(0)-0 to YE-A A(0)-0.

When we reach the end of the top row, we loop back right next to where we started, but one row "north".
We go from DG-Y(0)-0 to EG-Y(0)-0.

, and so on right the way through the sector.

The very first possible position is AA-A A(0)-0 and the last is RH-I A119-0.

For the higher mass-codes, the system used is the same, but only a subset of the names are used - the names are given as if they were in the same position as the mass-code A names, so for all mass-codes, the "south" "west" "down" start point wwill *always* be AA-A (mass-code)(0)-0 and the subsector one row "north" of it will *always* be EG-Y (mass-code)(0)-0. And so on...

With thanks to Boogyman - here's a graphic to illustrate the example.
0UGkjHa.jpg
 
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Hi Jackie. I'm surveying a bunch of HIP/HD systems currently, half-way through my list. If you want details, please feel free to contact me on discord (same name as forum name and also same name in-game).
 
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