Scaled reduction of G1 to G5 engineering on weapons, shields and powerplants

Problem:

Engineering makes the game unbalanced and severely affects a lot of related parts of the game in a negative way. Examples:

Guardian modules:

Cannot be engineered, but advantages are eclipsed by G1 > G5 engineering. So they are next to useless except for real edge cases. Outcome: people don't use them bar the FSD booster.

Security:

I can tank security easily, meaning I can ignore security levels. I can kill anything with impunity even in High security systems and brush off ATR- which is wrong. Outcome: engineering allows ships that can break crime and punishment, with knock on effects for the BGS.

Tech broker modules:

Can't be engineered, but advantages again eclipsed by G1 > G5 on regular weapons. Outcome: no-one uses them.

Long range lasers allowing people to snipe from long ranges, making fights silly.

Game balance between Horizons and non-Horizons (Core) players- G5 engineering splits the playerbase with one half being impossibly powerful, while the other weak in comparison. From what is listed stat wise 50% of players have Horizons.

Engineering takes away hard choices- it removes considerations on power, heat and other subtle nuances ships had. Engineering does have a place but it should not make everything viable all of the time.

Suggestion:

What I suggest is that engineering is rebalanced for offensive, defensive and powerplant modules, while engine and range based engineering is kept. Lightweight modifications on everything are kept as they are (these would be balanced via powerplant output).

What I'd love to see is an almost reversal between the applied experimental effect and the G1 to G5 effects, in that the experimental provides the 'meat' of the engineering perk, and the G1 - G5 provides an additional boost.

Weapon G5 effects for increased power, range, efficiency are scaled back to between G1 to G2 levels maximum.

All shield, shield cell banks, shield booster effects are drastically reduced down to G1 levels.

Hull reinforcement packages and armour are reduced down to G2 max.

Powerplant overcharging is dialed back to G1 max. The Guardian powerplant + distributor should be seen as a better single upgrade while engineering + experimental provides a greater spectrum of tuning. Outcome: you can't have ships with everything running- meaning more design choices are required. It will also make low power shields more important, as well as making G1 to G4 engineering valuable (i.e. you are engineering for a role and not mindlessly going G5 on everything).

Make power saving, heat reduction more important: in a power starved engineering 'world' these effects will be enablers.

Legacy modules:

These are kept until destruction, where you then have to craft using the new rules. So people far away from anyone exploring won't be affected until a star or high G planet kills them.

Considerations:

Outside C + P NPCs and ATR, 'new style' combat zones might need to have NPCs dialled back slightly (since they are considered 'bullet sponges')

I'm still going through trying to unpick the power creep mess Elite Dangerous is in- how this would affect PvP, Thargoid combat etc so I've missed out loads of edge case problems and consequences (such as 'meta' builds).
 
Problem:

Engineering makes the game unbalanced and severely affects a lot of related parts of the game in a negative way. Examples:

Guardian modules:

Cannot be engineered, but advantages are eclipsed by G1 > G5 engineering. So they are next to useless except for real edge cases. Outcome: people don't use them bar the FSD booster.

Security:

I can tank security easily, meaning I can ignore security levels. I can kill anything with impunity even in High security systems and brush off ATR- which is wrong. Outcome: engineering allows ships that can break crime and punishment, with knock on effects for the BGS.

Tech broker modules:

Can't be engineered, but advantages again eclipsed by G1 > G5 on regular weapons. Outcome: no-one uses them.

Long range lasers allowing people to snipe from long ranges, making fights silly.

Game balance between Horizons and non-Horizons (Core) players- G5 engineering splits the playerbase with one half being impossibly powerful, while the other weak in comparison. From what is listed stat wise 50% of players have Horizons.

Engineering takes away hard choices- it removes considerations on power, heat and other subtle nuances ships had. Engineering does have a place but it should not make everything viable all of the time.

Suggestion:

What I suggest is that engineering is rebalanced for offensive, defensive and powerplant modules, while engine and range based engineering is kept. Lightweight modifications on everything are kept as they are (these would be balanced via powerplant output).

What I'd love to see is an almost reversal between the applied experimental effect and the G1 to G5 effects, in that the experimental provides the 'meat' of the engineering perk, and the G1 - G5 provides an additional boost.

Weapon G5 effects for increased power, range, efficiency are scaled back to between G1 to G2 levels maximum.

All shield, shield cell banks, shield booster effects are drastically reduced down to G1 levels.

Hull reinforcement packages and armour are reduced down to G2 max.

Powerplant overcharging is dialed back to G1 max. The Guardian powerplant + distributor should be seen as a better single upgrade while engineering + experimental provides a greater spectrum of tuning. Outcome: you can't have ships with everything running- meaning more design choices are required. It will also make low power shields more important, as well as making G1 to G4 engineering valuable (i.e. you are engineering for a role and not mindlessly going G5 on everything).

Make power saving, heat reduction more important: in a power starved engineering 'world' these effects will be enablers.

Legacy modules:

These are kept until destruction, where you then have to craft using the new rules. So people far away from anyone exploring won't be affected until a star or high G planet kills them.

Considerations:

Outside C + P NPCs and ATR, 'new style' combat zones might need to have NPCs dialled back slightly (since they are considered 'bullet sponges')

I'm still going through trying to unpick the power creep mess Elite Dangerous is in- how this would affect PvP, Thargoid combat etc so I've missed out loads of edge case problems and consequences (such as 'meta' builds).
I like it, except the legacy ruling. They have to go for such a huge power difference, seriously.
 
I like it, except the legacy ruling. They have to go for such a huge power difference, seriously.

This is the sticky issue really. Either you cut it all out (which is surgical but fair) or wait until they die and do it. I included it for the edge case explorers who won't be coming back soon, but I'm willing to sacrifice for the greater good.
 
Has Frontier ever acted on ANY of your suggestions? This is not a commentary on the quality of your suggestions, but rather the futility of suggesting.

They have once overtly- halving cyto jitter where I argued for it to be removed and FD compromised by halving it.
 
Well if nothing else, they should sell his McDonalds paint job. Better yet, hire him to do ALL paint jobs!

Going off piste I did a load of fast food ones a while ago:

papa johns krait.png
deliveroo sidewinder.png

cobra dominoes.png
t-9 sainsburys.png
 
Cutting out engineering would eliminate half of the grinding one is almost mandated to do if they choose to engineer, which today is pretty much a mandate. And as we all know, Fdev loves to make us grind. Case in point: FC's.
 
Cutting out engineering would eliminate half of the grinding one is almost mandated to do if they choose to engineer, which today is pretty much a mandate. And as we all know, Fdev loves to make us grind. Case in point: FC's.

I would happy if some engineering did non-combat enhancements. I would be fine with grinding for these upgrades.

  • refineries: faster, more bins.
  • engines: different sounds.
  • ship hull: change hardpoint placements to new optional locations.
  • fuel tank: additional disposable external tank at expense of very vulnerable.
  • ship cockpit: dimmer switch for internal cabin lights.
  • ship cockpit: upgrade pilot chair with one that can swivel 360 deg. And cup holder.
  • ship cockpit: change cmdr's pilot seat.
  • ship cockpit: canopy upgrade with better coatings for less light splatter (whatever the fancy word is).
  • ship cockpit HUD: a simple galactic compass that shows galactic center and galactic north.
 
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Just like others, I see all good in that, except the legacy rule. I even understand where you come from with it. But for the worst offenders (shields, shield boosters, HPRs and weapons) a direct and immediate reduction would not really affect any explorer out there.

Thus I'd go another way: There's actually only a few modules where legacy handling might make sense, those are the FSD and power plant. For those I think the boat has sailed. Nerfing them is just no realistic option any more. Thus I'd leave them as they are. Potentially all lightweight modifications might also have to remain the way they are. Anything else should be reduced, without a legacy regulation in place. Additionally, I'd even say that already now existing grandfathered engineering should get adjusted accordingly.
 
Cutting out engineering would eliminate half of the grinding one is almost mandated to do if they choose to engineer, which today is pretty much a mandate. And as we all know, Fdev loves to make us grind. Case in point: FC's.
I'm going to disagree here as far as engineering is concerned. If they really wanted us to grind, they'd make it impossible to take out an elite assassination mission Corvette with a g2 (average) engineered Beluga. I'd argue that applying the OPs proposal to scale down CZ NPCs a little that the difficulty of the game is perfectly set up for g3 engineering as an absolute maximum. Anything else is because, well, g4 and g5 exist so players go to that level. It's really not necessary though.
 
Just like others, I see all good in that, except the legacy rule. I even understand where you come from with it. But for the worst offenders (shields, shield boosters, HPRs and weapons) a direct and immediate reduction would not really affect any explorer out there.

Thus I'd go another way: There's actually only a few modules where legacy handling might make sense, those are the FSD and power plant. For those I think the boat has sailed. Nerfing them is just no realistic option any more. Thus I'd leave them as they are. Potentially all lightweight modifications might also have to remain the way they are. Anything else should be reduced, without a legacy regulation in place. Additionally, I'd even say that already now existing grandfathered engineering should get adjusted accordingly.

Key engineering in my eyes:

Powerplants: there is far too much power available allowing power hungry weapons with top end engines, shields all at once. If power is reduced it means Guardian PP + distro is a great choice (since it is equivalent to G4 in power output plus extra from the combo)- if regular engineering only went to G1 (+ experimental) you'd have a nice choice to make. Starving power also means that hulltanks become a consideration again, because shields + boosters + Guardian modules would eat power. FSD and engines are fine because they are then brought to heel via powerplant output.

Weapons: if weapons are not super pumped G5 then it means tech broker kit instantly becomes fantastic. Shock cannons would be really nasty for example- and a viable choice, not a novelty unlock.

Shields: de powering shields makes 10K shield monsters impossible, and that you can't stuff Guardian shield boosters / SCBs either.

My one dread is that FD are simply afraid to tweak anything at all, and want to leave it as it is.
 
Key engineering in my eyes:

Powerplants: there is far too much power available allowing power hungry weapons with top end engines, shields all at once. If power is reduced it means Guardian PP + distro is a great choice (since it is equivalent to G4 in power output plus extra from the combo)- if regular engineering only went to G1 (+ experimental) you'd have a nice choice to make. Starving power also means that hulltanks become a consideration again, because shields + boosters + Guardian modules would eat power. FSD and engines are fine because they are then brought to heel via powerplant output.

Weapons: if weapons are not super pumped G5 then it means tech broker kit instantly becomes fantastic. Shock cannons would be really nasty for example- and a viable choice, not a novelty unlock.

Shields: de powering shields makes 10K shield monsters impossible, and that you can't stuff Guardian shield boosters / SCBs either.

My one dread is that FD are simply afraid to tweak anything at all, and want to leave it as it is.
Thinking about it the current state of engineering has turned us all quite lazy into how we build ships. Right now, it seems to be the thing of grabbing a ship, fill it full of PAs and destroy everything. It would be nice to see the PA being your 'Sunday best' weapon that you only have one or two of. Then you need to put in some thought into what you pair it with (not rails of course- they'd be too power/distro hungry as well).
 
Just like others, I see all good in that, except the legacy rule. I even understand where you come from with it. But for the worst offenders (shields, shield boosters, HPRs and weapons) a direct and immediate reduction would not really affect any explorer out there.

Thus I'd go another way: There's actually only a few modules where legacy handling might make sense, those are the FSD and power plant. For those I think the boat has sailed. Nerfing them is just no realistic option any more. Thus I'd leave them as they are. Potentially all lightweight modifications might also have to remain the way they are. Anything else should be reduced, without a legacy regulation in place. Additionally, I'd even say that already now existing grandfathered engineering should get adjusted accordingly.
Why though? I'd reduce all that including the mods you mentioned, even if that means I have no 80LY conda any more.
I'd wager there are only a handful explorers out there in systems so far out of reach, and for the goal of nerfing this power creep I'd gladly give support a hectical day or two.
And for all others: well we have to cope with that, and build accordingly. No more instant armoured pp for everything.
 
Thinking about it the current state of engineering has turned us all quite lazy into how we build ships. Right now, it seems to be the thing of grabbing a ship, fill it full of PAs and destroy everything. It would be nice to see the PA being your 'Sunday best' weapon that you only have one or two of. Then you need to put in some thought into what you pair it with (not rails of course- they'd be too power/distro hungry as well).

I have warm and fuzzy memories of the huge debates over the Vultures power limits, the FDLs issues and all that nitty gritty stuff.

Everyone just mashes G5 without thinking and to me that is a warning sign (one of many!) that we have too much on tap.

In my daydream I'd love hulltanks being a thing with crazy weapons, or all rounders having to compromise using low power shields or Guardian modules.

Fighters would also be a luxury, and no shield tanks. I did a Coriolis build of a Cutter under these rules, and instantly had to make choices.
 
They have once overtly- halving cyto jitter where I argued for it to be removed and FD compromised by halving it.

As a Cyto Addict, you are my hero. I can't imagine my Cytos having double the jitter, good Lord. I simply can't believe anyone who plays ED would've thought that reasonable.
 
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