Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.

[Flyinpiranha]

Hello Commander Flyinpiranha!

I should add that the main reason we're tweaking the shield cell bank is simply because we think our initial numbers were a bit messed up.

I think it's fair to say that a shield cell bank will potentially give a combatant a significant advantage in terms of survivability even after our changes. The way they work has not fundamentally changed at all.

However, before the tweaks, their various costs failed to update in line with other values, making them fairly ridiculously good value, which was never the intention.

That eases my worry somewhat. I just don't understand it. Even if they were "good value" it still is being balanced around small scale 1v1 PVP it seems. It's just not where I want to see the game go is all.

I'll just see where the game goes in a couple months. I appreciate the reply.

 

[Mephane]

Hello Commanders!

Just a quick heads up: we've been looking at the stats for shield cell banks and have made some tweaks, which should filter out in a near future update. Basically, cell capacities have been reduced, cost per cell has been increased, and the passive power draw for having a cell bank active has increased.

We're not totally convinced this is the end of tweaking shield cell banks, but we think it will be a move in the right direction.

So I have to pray that my Eagle will continue to function? It's already a ship starving for power, I could just squeeze in three pulse lasers and a C2 Shield Cell Bank... -_-

*Still dreams of an Eagle with actual beam lasers...*

Edit: Instead of increasing passive power draw, how about a limit of 1 bank per ship, the same way it works now for fuel scoops and shield generators? Especially since by juggling with power on/off settings, one could still load a bigger ship (e.g. Cobra) to the brim with these things anyway.

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commander Flyinpiranha!

To clarfy:

We have not made the changes to make shield cell bank better or worse for two individual ships in a duel. We have simply made their running costs more in line with the benefit they offer. For example, the cost of a shield cell was basically silly, so we've increased it significantly. The cost of running a cell bank was negligible, so we've increased the power draw. But the ability of a cell to charge shields is unaffected. And larger ships can still basically fit more cell banks than smaller ships.

Looking at things objectively, the game is full of asymmetric conflict: a hauler is going to struggle against any combat ship, for example. Even if we wanted to balance the ships for one versus one battles, we would struggle like crazy.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

Hello Commander Flyinpiranha!

To clarfy:

We have not made the changes to make shield cell bank better or worse for two individual ships in a duel. We have simply made their running costs more in line with the benefit they offer. For example, the cost of a shield cell was basically silly, so we've increased it significantly. The cost of running a cell bank was negligible, so we've increased the power draw. But the ability of a cell to charge shields is unaffected. And larger ships can still basically fit more cell banks than smaller ships.

Looking at things objectively, the game is full of asymmetric conflict: a hauler is going to struggle against any combat ship, for example. Even if we wanted to balance the ships for one versus one battles, we would struggle like crazy.

Ah, OK, thank you very much for the clarification. That makes sense. And that was my main worry, I didn't understand why this particular aspect would be balanced while there are so many "T6 vs Viper" meetings as it is as you mentioned in your last part and I was trying to explain with another user.

I appreciate your responses and I am happy to hear this.

 

[Ixnatifual]

Wonderful. Fixing the game for PVP "balance". I guess I know where this road goes ...

The AI is really bad at stopping you from getting the most out of your shield cells, so the changes should improve the PvE balance as well. Making it at the very least slightly better.

 

[Frewq]

Hello Commander Flyinpiranha!

To clarfy:

We have not made the changes to make shield cell bank better or worse for two individual ships in a duel. We have simply made their running costs more in line with the benefit they offer. For example, the cost of a shield cell was basically silly, so we've increased it significantly. The cost of running a cell bank was negligible, so we've increased the power draw. But the ability of a cell to charge shields is unaffected. And larger ships can still basically fit more cell banks than smaller ships.

Looking at things objectively, the game is full of asymmetric conflict: a hauler is going to struggle against any combat ship, for example. Even if we wanted to balance the ships for one versus one battles, we would struggle like crazy.

Would be good to get a heads up when you roll this out, it'd be frustrating to deploy weapons and have everything unexpectedly shutdown. A 1% increase in the shield cells will shut me down right now.

No objection to the tweaks though, shield cells are very cheap right now.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

The AI is really bad at stopping you from getting the most out of your shield cells, so the changes should improve the PvE balance as well. Making it at the very least slightly better.

True, but I do wish they'd balance more around the AI than changing the systems in place, unless there just isn't a way. Even having AI ships have shield cells wouldn't be that bad of an idea. Just increase bounties and such if the fights are going to be 'longer'.

 

[Jimac]

The problem is balancing cells around price will be another problem to add to the balancing issues which cells introduce.
Weapons balance issues ie hull v shield weapons..hull balance isssues, why have heavy hull since you just run when shields go.
Why can't the batteries not be used to power weapons or systems..why only shields. Why would they not be standard operating equipment for shield failures. Why don't the npc's spam these things as well, at least the higher levels should..invulnerable condas anyone, that would be fun. Why not have double boost cells for thrusters or sixth sense boosters for etc etc.
Having made the decision to put in an OP mechanic which unbalances so many other aspects of game play we will now go through all sorts of changes rather than just admit it's a flawed idea..remove it and concentrate on things that are important to the gameplay.

 

[BigBadB]

Hello Commander Flyinpiranha!

To clarfy:

We have not made the changes to make shield cell bank better or worse for two individual ships in a duel. We have simply made their running costs more in line with the benefit they offer. For example, the cost of a shield cell was basically silly, so we've increased it significantly. The cost of running a cell bank was negligible, so we've increased the power draw. But the ability of a cell to charge shields is unaffected. And larger ships can still basically fit more cell banks than smaller ships.

Looking at things objectively, the game is full of asymmetric conflict: a hauler is going to struggle against any combat ship, for example. Even if we wanted to balance the ships for one versus one battles, we would struggle like crazy.

Is there a specific reason why we can fit multiple shield cell banks, rather than being limited to one per ship?

 

[Redan]

In all honesty, a shield cell bank nerf is needed - I just hope that FD can apply some logic to the overall equation and make a reduction to repair costs come hand in hand with the nerf to the shield cells. No one will ever choose to slug it out in a duel if they will have to pay hundreds of thousands of credits in repairs.

For combat to remain viable and fun, I really hope some repair cost tweaks get applied as well.

 

[RealNC]

In PvP, the problem isn't shield cells, it's the ability to leave the fight very easily.

Shield cells only make that more apparent because you need to wait until they are depleted to see the other ship depart or combat log.

No amount of shield cell nerfing is going to fix the core issue.

 

[Forrseti]

snip

read it all but didn't want to quote such a long post. Exactly the reason shield cell banks do not belong in the game.

 

[NeilF]

Hello Commander Flyinpiranha!

To clarfy:

We have not made the changes to make shield cell bank better or worse for two individual ships in a duel. We have simply made their running costs more in line with the benefit they offer. For example, the cost of a shield cell was basically silly, so we've increased it significantly. The cost of running a cell bank was negligible, so we've increased the power draw. But the ability of a cell to charge shields is unaffected. And larger ships can still basically fit more cell banks than smaller ships.

Looking at things objectively, the game is full of asymmetric conflict: a hauler is going to struggle against any combat ship, for example. Even if we wanted to balance the ships for one versus one battles, we would struggle like crazy.

Well, unless something significant is done, IMHO the goal posts may have moved, but the same basic problem will exist. Ships will simply carry multiple units as it will generally guarantee victory of ships with less units. A CMDR with two Shield Cells will simply out shield (tank) a CMDR with one. So next time the second CMDR will try to have three to ensure victory... and so on.

Again, what would be the issue with only allowing one unit to be used on a ship. Worse case if you enabled a shield cell unit (power it in modules), any/all others are turned off. You'd then need to turn the old one off, and turn another one on in modules. At least this would make it hard to employ multiple units one after another in a single fight and get us of this more shield cells = win.

 

[Mephane]

Again, what would be the issue with only allowing one unit to be used on a ship. Worse case if you enabled a shield cell unit (power it in modules), any/all others are turned off. You'd then need to turn the old one off, and turn another one on in modules. At least this would make it hard to employ multiple units one after another in a single fight and get us of this more shield cells = win.

I beg to differ. Afaik people already use voice attack input sequences and the like to switch stuff on and off on demand, increasing the passive power draw would still mean you could fill a big ship to the brim with SCBs if you employ these methods.

 

[NeilF]

I beg to differ. Afaik people already use voice attack input sequences and the like to switch stuff on and off on demand, increasing the passive power draw would still mean you could fill a big ship to the brim with SCBs if you employ these methods.

Fair point... You may still be able to switch over too quickly. I mentioned before that maybe they should take a time to come online to once enabled... So in a single combat you couldn't simply move from one to the next to the next to simply out Shield Cell your opponent.

I'm confused how people support multiple shield cells. I mean what sort of a crazy notion in the ED universe would it be to try and base victory on how much you can actually hit the enemy instead of how many more shield cells you've simply bought than them

 

[Martin1956]

So be honest... If you had an Asp with 1 shield cell unit, and you fought another equally equipped Asp but with 3 or more Shield Cells... Who do you recon would win most times? I think we both know the answer

So why should it come down simply to who has the more Shield Cells to use wins? Is that good mechanics, or should some sort of more skill based factor maybe dictate it a little more?

Or put another way, if you had an asp with a small pulse laser and came up against an asp with 3 or more pulse/beam lasers who would win most of the time?

Lets put a block on any ship having anything other than a loaned pulse cannon, oh and keep the armour as basic too as otherwise people who have military spec will have an advantage over peopel who haven't.

Get real if you find it unfair load up with more shield banks yourself, course you may have to cut down on other goodies as well.

 

[Captain N]

What if I brought a Python and they had a Sidewinder? Is that not "unbalanced".

Since you didn't bring shield cell banks and the Sidewinder did, you lose.

 

[Evil]

Fair point... You may still be able to switch over too quickly. I mentioned before that maybe they should take a time to come online to once enabled... So in a single combat you couldn't simply move from one to the next to the next to simply out Shield Cell your opponent.

I'm confused how people support multiple shield cells. I mean what sort of a crazy notion in the ED universe would it be to try and base victory on how much you can actually hit the enemy instead of how many more shield cells you've simply bought than them

Yeah because piloting, weapon choice, ship choice, pip management, hitting with weapons, player ability, buttons happened, all of are these negated by someone using shield cells in a sidewinder, while juggling 20 knives on top of a elephant triangle held by a dwarf riding a unicycle with no seat !

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commander Jimac!

To be fair, we're not simply balancing around credit cost. And to your other points, well, we have to make calls for the game based on all sorts of criteria: different aspects of game play, fiction context, player experience, etc.

Basically, we're not just making a player versus player game. And yes, once our next changes roll out, there might still need to be some further changes. But I simply disagree that it's a flawed concept. I think it's a sold concept that we're committed to making as good as possible for the game.

Hello Commander Redan!

Looking at the various rewards and penalties is an ongoing effort, so when we find tweaks we think will make the game better we'll push them through.

Hello Commander NeilF!

Carrying multiple shield cell banks will mean that you're not carrying something else. And with a higher power draw requirement, the more banks you carry the more likely you will need to micro-managing your power plant.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want shield cell banks to be the "be all and end all" of module selection; we going to keep an eye on them once the changes roll out, it will be great to get feedback from the player base, and if more tweaks are required (even to the point of cool down usage, one cell bank only etc.) we won't be afraid to implement them. I'm certainly not going to sit here and announce that "everything is awesome! Tss, mm, tss, mm, tss, mm".

I simply disagree with the notion that because they can create imbalance - they should be dropped. In my opinion, given the amount of imbalance it's possible to create for any situation - this argument is not strong enough to sway me.

I hope this helps show where we're coming from on this, naturally, no-one is forced to agree with out stance .

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Hello Commander Flyinpiranha!

To clarfy:

We have not made the changes to make shield cell bank better or worse for two individual ships in a duel. We have simply made their running costs more in line with the benefit they offer. For example, the cost of a shield cell was basically silly, so we've increased it significantly. The cost of running a cell bank was negligible, so we've increased the power draw. But the ability of a cell to charge shields is unaffected. And larger ships can still basically fit more cell banks than smaller ships.

Looking at things objectively, the game is full of asymmetric conflict: a hauler is going to struggle against any combat ship, for example. Even if we wanted to balance the ships for one versus one battles, we would struggle like crazy.

I appreciate the changes, however I believe a cooldown should be implemented. If a big python can have 4 shield cell banks that can fire all the time, then it is virtually impossible to crack it down.