Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.
- Thread starter KazumaKat
- Start date
I'm a bit disappointed with the nature of the nerf. Increasing the cost per cell or number of cells per bank won't deter many players from using multiple banks - unless the costs are truly astronomical and scale exponentially with the size of the module (which would make sense, IMO). And as shield cells are best managed with the module tab - where one should only ever be turned on - I doubt increasing the passive power draw will materially impact folks flying around with multiple banks.
What would materially impact their usefulness is a longer cool down. I like this much more than a lengthy power up, as the latter really just encourages shield cell spamming and multiple cells. With a lengthy cool down, however, a player cannot simply sit still and spam cells. I also think this would make multiple shield cell banks less attractive.
Of course, I'd personally love to see both a lengthy cool down AND the ability to fit only one shield cell bank per ship.
What would materially impact their usefulness is a longer cool down. I like this much more than a lengthy power up, as the latter really just encourages shield cell spamming and multiple cells. With a lengthy cool down, however, a player cannot simply sit still and spam cells. I also think this would make multiple shield cell banks less attractive.
Of course, I'd personally love to see both a lengthy cool down AND the ability to fit only one shield cell bank per ship.
Last edited:
Or you could introduce extra skill to pressing the button. You know, like a flashing light on your dash. If you hit the button when the light is on you get a shield boost, if you miss your engine blows.
Lets keep skill in the game.
Edit: Why would there be a cool down for using a battery boost, a battery boost which is being used to shorten a cool down in the first place.
Lets keep skill in the game.
Edit: Why would there be a cool down for using a battery boost, a battery boost which is being used to shorten a cool down in the first place.
Last edited:
Agreed. Cost nerfs only harm players in smaller ships with less funding than trade monsters who have larger ships already and are raking in large trade profit margins. To these people, who shield cells have the largest benefit for due to vastly superior shield strength, cost is irrelevant unless it really is something astronomical, which it won't be.
The only real way to balance these ridiculous items is to increase the cooldown substantially, so they are more of a 1 hit emergency item than a crutch for people to rely on for entire encounters.
I just realized, Frontier Development has virtually no multiplayer experience, now things are beginning to make sense...
Disagree. CD too high makes them useless. Too low makes them stay as good as they are now. It would be constant tweaking of cooldowns with every patch to ship and weapon balance possibly demanding another pass. Ugh.
The best solution is tweaking the recharge rate for cell banks to a level where dedicated laser boats can out-DPS it to force the shield collapse.
This makes it particularly good against projectile attacks and retains the benefits for bigger ships fielding more cells (they can fire multiple cells to boost recharge rate), which would be something smaller ships can't do due to fitting restrictions. It also opens a niche for laser boats to truly shine.
You might even go as far as introducing shield cell banks that have lower capacity, a longer recharge cycle but boost specific resistances.
For example: Pulse width modulated booster cells. 80% of the boost capacity and 200% recharge time of standard cells but while active give very high resist against burst laser fire.
Last edited:
I don't think changing the reload is a good idea. It's static. If you're a good pilot, will they reload faster? No. If you're good at power management, will they reload faster? No.
Instead, I think it should somehow be coupled to the capacitors. Either make it refill from the SYS capacitor, or some other way, but just putting a hard limit on how many SCB's per minute you can burn through sounds boring, and as you say, it will result in endless balancing.
Instead, I think it should somehow be coupled to the capacitors. Either make it refill from the SYS capacitor, or some other way, but just putting a hard limit on how many SCB's per minute you can burn through sounds boring, and as you say, it will result in endless balancing.
A possible solution: make shield cell banks into general purpose cell banks, that when activated, dump their power into SYS, ENG and WEP proportionately with the amount of pips placed in each. That makes them useful for people struggling against a tanking ship - dump into weapons and keep firing - as well as replenishing boost for escaping/chasing ships. And it adds a little more tactical use to manage your pips before activation, not just all enerty to weapons and spam cells for shields.
It makes more sense from a lore perspective as well, why should stored energy *not* be divertable to other systems? Perhaps even add different pros and cons to activating cells with a (nearly) full capacitor, since this excess energy has to be sent straight to the system. Obviously shields it would replenish, but engines could improve engine output, similar to a boost but proportional with the amount the charge goes over, and engines could be overcharged, lasers do more damage, multicannons fire faster, etc. Offset with faster overheating, could make for an interesting mechanic.
It makes more sense from a lore perspective as well, why should stored energy *not* be divertable to other systems? Perhaps even add different pros and cons to activating cells with a (nearly) full capacitor, since this excess energy has to be sent straight to the system. Obviously shields it would replenish, but engines could improve engine output, similar to a boost but proportional with the amount the charge goes over, and engines could be overcharged, lasers do more damage, multicannons fire faster, etc. Offset with faster overheating, could make for an interesting mechanic.
Last edited:
why not just give everyone exactly the same stuff if you want it to be fair? surely the aim isn't to make play 'fair' but to allow people to do what they want? just because people can fill their ships with shield cells doesn't follow that they will in the same way that not everyone runs the same weapon set up when surely one is optimal. the fact that I can out run any other ship that interdicts me (other than a same spec cobra) and jump away equally makes PvP pointless if the other person is looking for a fight but it doesn't mean we restrict people to lower class specifications and thus make combat inevitable. The skill of the pilot comes in getting the other person to use up their shield cells first; get more shots on target; turn quicker and turn faster. shield cells don't change the dynamic of a fight they merely prolong it which if you're taking on another player is surely fine?
You're not wrong, but I don't think that this is an issue of fairness. I think it's an issue of something affecting combat in a way which sucks.
If Shield cells does not change the dynamic of a fight, but muddle the gameplay down, is that not a cause for removing them.
If we ''merely'' want to prolong fights, I suggest that we simply make ships a bit stronger.
I disagree. This is only true if the players in question have 1, maybe 2 shield cells, not more. In reality, I've seen some people fit a full hold of SCBs on an ASP, getting 46 (!) charges. I mean, sure, you CAN somehow take his shields down faster than he can recharge them, but 46 - that's just ridiculous.
IMO, limit SCBs to 1 per ship, and either make the cooldown a bit longer, or reduce the number of charges. I mean, an SCB is supposed to be an emergency measure, not a "DIY pocket tank kit". Or, better yet, remove SCBs entirely and make shields a little bit stronger.
What I'm trying to say is that in a game like Elite, it would be great if the skill of a pilot would determine a lot more than the ship - i.e. a madskillz Cobra could take out a noob in a Anaconda (how a noob gets an Anaconda is a good question, but that's not the point). ED is close to followng this concept, but SCBs totally break this by allowing hardware entirely compensate poor skills.
Last edited:
Just restrict shield cell banks to one per ship. It's utterly stupid that big ships can fit multiple units.
Maybe not, but they ARE just a few doors down from JAGEX, who have something of a wealth of it.
I should know, we used to meet up with the Frontier Devs all the time to discuss the game a few years back...
Seems to me the easier thing to do would be to limit the amount equipable to a ship say one bank to a ship
Thanks for the support. I do feel like it's the only way forward.
The 2nd paragraph is pure tragedy, and highlights why the current system is utterly broken.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
They are a casual console game / old school MMO troupe. They are making me worry about the future of the game more than any other thing introduced since alpha
I read Sandro defending the mechanic, and I fear the game is going in the wrong direction.
You PVP Players should all consider this https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102248
A longer cooldown that applies across any/all units? If the cooldown is 15 seconds. You can't use ANY shield cell unit you have for that long.
Surely what we want is a unit that can make a reasonable tactical difference periodically. Not a unit that can be used to simply keep a shield charge up over and over and over? And if people are using multiple of them to achieve this then is that condusive to good game mechanics? If not, then how can it be altered so it is?
That's the whole point of military technological development. Hence the crossbow, hence better armour, hence repeating rifles, hence gatling guns, hence fire and forget missiles. Etc.
ED is not a game of combat skills, it's a game of wits. In the event of someone choosing to forgo other modules in favour of cells, as you say, you can wear them down. If you're good enough.
You not wanting to wear them down is another matter entirely, your feeling that a player so skilled as yourself being made to do that is somehow 'unfair' notwithstanding.
I see no reason why 'skill' as you define it should take precedent over wit (or patience) or indeed, having deep pockets to afford to fly in a heavily armoured and protected ship.
seems like people at Frontier have no idea what's the main reason why Shield Cell Banks are so hilariously OP. hint: it's not because the Eagle and Viper can barely fit one with the A rated power plant!
the nerfs as they plan to do 'em, will only increase the already too narrow gap in combat effectiveness between the smaller combat specialized ship and the multirole ones since the latter will still be able to fit just more cells and have two dozen of them. this (along with the chaff nerf) will solve nothing and will only make the combat ships even more useless at combat! it's like they understand what is wrong with stuff, but not why
the nerfs as they plan to do 'em, will only increase the already too narrow gap in combat effectiveness between the smaller combat specialized ship and the multirole ones since the latter will still be able to fit just more cells and have two dozen of them. this (along with the chaff nerf) will solve nothing and will only make the combat ships even more useless at combat! it's like they understand what is wrong with stuff, but not why
It ultimately boils down to whether you want a traditional tiered MMO style experience where people only ever fight things/people in the same power tiers (except for wanton griefing) ... or not. Personally I don't, every encounter should carry some element of danger for all concerned: I do not want a game where there is near zero possibility of at least damaging a better ship, and neither do I want one where I can fight smaller ships with zero risk.
Edit --- The more I think about it the more it seems that we should emphasis hull strength more: have stronger hulls and weaker shields, perhaps have very strong hulls but have shields let through a certain % of damage perhaps depending on how many rings you have.
In summary I would:
1) get rid of cells (obviously)
2) Make hulls stronger across the whole range of ships (say 20-30%)
3) Increase the damage modifier for hull upgrades (to say 50% additional protection for military grade)
4) Have shields offer 100% protection only on 3 rings, with say 70% protection on lower rings
5) Have shields recharge rate be highly proportional to pips in sys with the 4 pips rate being about double the current rate.
With this system most fights would result in some damage to both parties in broad proportion to the relative power of the ships, it would bring in some extra tactical considerations like making subsystem targeting still relevant when shields were still up.
Last edited: