So let's just blame consoles because reasons. Got you.
Yes, because all modern consoles are designed to work with CRT TVs from the 1980s, LOL.
Sense Of Scale
- Thread starter Old Duck
- Start date
Yes, because all modern consoles are designed to work with CRT TVs from the 1980s, LOL.
You are too old to know about this stuff, we aren't talking typewriters or radios here.
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Mr. 4x3 seems to be. Maybe he thinks consoles are made out of vacuum tubes. That would explain the orange HUD and glow in ED - yet something else we can blame on the consoles!
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Blackcompany
Banned
The seat is too low on every ship I have ever flown except the Cobra III. Courier is really awful, with you needing to look upward to see straight ahead. And the Asp has you staring at the radar as much as out of the canopy. Honestly, it feels like the camera was placed in the pilot's chest, not their head, in most ships.
Not that much different, glide allows us to drop next to the port at much higher speed though.
[video=youtube;91t1SJE-h4Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91t1SJE-h4Q[/video]
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Haha, fair point! But master arm should be off on the ground anyway! Also, do it for science!
The HUD doesnt scale with FOV
The HUD doesn't scale with FOV because the HUD, like other interface elements, is meant to be a 3D element in the game world.
When I increase my FoV in Falcon BMS, the HUD doesn't scale ot compensate either... yet I doubt that was a design decision to accomodate console users.
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Circumnavigate a planet in an SRV, then get back to us if you think the scale is off still.
Dimensional scale - Probably it's a lot to do with the lack of familiar references, if you saw Humans populating installations it would ease the detachment.
As for scale of mass - a fair few folks already think the constraints on movement are to slow in system travel.
If you want real simulation then use a real simulator (no time skipping) for a real world vehicle. Oh none of that will be a space game as you are not going to spend years sat on your console just travelling to Mars.
At the end of the day it's a game.
VR has had more than enough attention it's about time they fixed some of the aspects of more than 16:9 ratios in game, multi screen and 21:9 for instance Galmap still has the menu tied to 16:9 (how hard can it be to sort that irritation?) the weird of centre viewpoint stretched aspect (planet flypast turns planets into eggs)
Scale on planet on my 2 screen 180 projector set up definitely gives a sense of scale in stations and on planet surfaces.
Dimensional scale - Probably it's a lot to do with the lack of familiar references, if you saw Humans populating installations it would ease the detachment.
As for scale of mass - a fair few folks already think the constraints on movement are to slow in system travel.
If you want real simulation then use a real simulator (no time skipping) for a real world vehicle. Oh none of that will be a space game as you are not going to spend years sat on your console just travelling to Mars.
At the end of the day it's a game.
VR has had more than enough attention it's about time they fixed some of the aspects of more than 16:9 ratios in game, multi screen and 21:9 for instance Galmap still has the menu tied to 16:9 (how hard can it be to sort that irritation?) the weird of centre viewpoint stretched aspect (planet flypast turns planets into eggs)
Scale on planet on my 2 screen 180 projector set up definitely gives a sense of scale in stations and on planet surfaces.
FWIW, I think planetary scale is done perfectly. Real-sized procgen planets (which includes crazy draw distances) is one of the things that impress me the most about this game.
I read the OP and a couple of pages, but not all 29 of them, and what I have to say has probably been mentioned by others, but anyway. Also I have not done VR in ED so this is based on the 2D experience.
One of the things that really mess with your sense of scale, are the intertia cues you get during automated docking, or when transitioning in and out of the hangar. They are intuitively not right, and they are furthermore inconsistent with, say, the time it takes to bring a Corvette to a full stop in normal space. Well - ED is quasi cartoon already, as I see it - avatars, ship design and so on - but things become almost slapstick when you are ripped in and out of a hangar in your 1 kiloton vessel in swift, jerky motions. I have no doubt that this is so to please the same people who on a regular basis demand changes to reduce intra-system travel times, and fair enough. But it sort of goes against the vibe of the game. To me at least, it is clear that some element of "tedious" is very much intended in the ED space life experience. You are a trader in the black expanse fighting for your livelihood, was the original pitch back in 1984. Much more in line with 2001 - A Space Odyssey than with Starwars, I felt. So such compromises sort of take something away from the idea for me. I have long thought about suggesting a realism slider in settings (ready to face the flack for obvious irony) that offers i.e. different accelleration in normal space, for those who would like to experience the tedious, slow process it is to rotate a kiloton worth of mass. On that note, I have noticed changes to the automated landing system that seems slower (and more clever) in 3.3, so maybe it is a concern with FDEV already.
One of the things that really mess with your sense of scale, are the intertia cues you get during automated docking, or when transitioning in and out of the hangar. They are intuitively not right, and they are furthermore inconsistent with, say, the time it takes to bring a Corvette to a full stop in normal space. Well - ED is quasi cartoon already, as I see it - avatars, ship design and so on - but things become almost slapstick when you are ripped in and out of a hangar in your 1 kiloton vessel in swift, jerky motions. I have no doubt that this is so to please the same people who on a regular basis demand changes to reduce intra-system travel times, and fair enough. But it sort of goes against the vibe of the game. To me at least, it is clear that some element of "tedious" is very much intended in the ED space life experience. You are a trader in the black expanse fighting for your livelihood, was the original pitch back in 1984. Much more in line with 2001 - A Space Odyssey than with Starwars, I felt. So such compromises sort of take something away from the idea for me. I have long thought about suggesting a realism slider in settings (ready to face the flack for obvious irony) that offers i.e. different accelleration in normal space, for those who would like to experience the tedious, slow process it is to rotate a kiloton worth of mass. On that note, I have noticed changes to the automated landing system that seems slower (and more clever) in 3.3, so maybe it is a concern with FDEV already.
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I'm coming back to this thread as VR player. For the last month(ish), I've been playing ED in VR using small ships like the Eagle and Dolphin, and VR has indeed helped with the sense of scale. Recently I switched to the medium size Python, and while it definitely is an amazing ship on the inside, I'm starting to get that "the scale is broken in this game" feel again, at least in stations. It's not everything, but little things. The most obvious example that comes to mind is the doors and catwalks in the hangars. They don't feel like normal-sized doors and catwalks and guard rails off in the distance, they feel like small dwarf doors and catwalks and guard rails much closer to me. This is in VR, so I've got depth perception and a realistic FOV. So I'm not sure what the deal is... Maybe it's just that these doors and catwalks are surrounded by insanely huge billboards and fans and other "too big" items, like those optical illusion fun houses.
If this is the case, I hope Frontier reconsiders tweaking some of these assets in New Era (especially if they are doing so anyway for space legs). For example out of many, replace the one apartment building size fan with four smaller fans. Optical illusion houses fun are to visit, but I don't want to live in one.
If this is the case, I hope Frontier reconsiders tweaking some of these assets in New Era (especially if they are doing so anyway for space legs). For example out of many, replace the one apartment building size fan with four smaller fans. Optical illusion houses fun are to visit, but I don't want to live in one.
Yeah, it does seem that whenever you fly the bigger ships, that the surroundings outside appear to reduce in feeling of scale. There's probably a few things at work there though that causes that. One being that I think your reduced proximity to other things outside when you are in a larger ship, plays a large part in that. The cockpits of the bigger ships can themselves be quite big, added to the increased distance from things outside due to the size of the ship, means that the finer detail of what you can see outside the cockpit window is reduced, especially in VR. Add that to your brain's lack of familiarity with the scale of the vast majority of the objects you can see in the game world and it all makes things harder for you to try and grap how big the things are that you are seeing. It doesn't help when a lot of the art assets are kind of stylistically oversized. So the ships look a lot like the kind of thing you can relate to from sci-fi films, TV programs and other games, when in actual fact they are much bigger than you think. So the Eagle, at first glance looks like something the size of an X-Wing fighter from Star Wars or similar, but really it's like 3 times the size of an X-Wing. It's the oversized cockpits and canopies, that make ships like the Eagle for instance, look more like current contemporary jet fighters in terms of size, when in fact they are very much bigger. That runs pretty much true for all the ships in the game little and large. So when you see one fly past in a station, it's really hard for your brain to grasp just how big that ship is, for it to then calculate just how big the rest of the space around it is. So when it sees an Eagle or Viper fly by, it sees it and relates it to what your brain knows and thinks it's just like a little jet fighter, which then makes everything else around it feel smaller too.
Some of the assets I think are just wrong in terms of scale anyway, like the doors, gangways and railings at the space station docks for instance. Even if you use the external free cam to try and position yourself at something approximating human height down on the platform, some of it still feels a bit off, but it's about the best you'll get for really getting a feel for how big everything is. If they are doing space legs, then I expect there will be some redesign and proportioning of many assets.
Some of the assets I think are just wrong in terms of scale anyway, like the doors, gangways and railings at the space station docks for instance. Even if you use the external free cam to try and position yourself at something approximating human height down on the platform, some of it still feels a bit off, but it's about the best you'll get for really getting a feel for how big everything is. If they are doing space legs, then I expect there will be some redesign and proportioning of many assets.
From my own "testing" using free camera, I'd say doors and railings on stations are too small. But, without being able to compare to anything "known" it's hard to judge. IF they make space legs, then we will learn it and start recognizing it. But I think it will be like @Riverside said, via transitions, and a "proper level" will pop in, loaded in background while you were docking.