Serious discussion on proper fleet mechanics

If you read my OP would have seen I did not want this discussion to be about the HOW I want it to be about the WHY.

If you don't first define exactly what you are wanting, then you leave discussions wide open to people making their own interpretations of what "proper" fleet mechanics are. This then means its also impossible to have a meaningful discussion of WHY. (So update your first post with what you want, because you know people only tend to read the first few posts or the last few posts before responding).

Why what?

I'd like ED to have "proper" community goals. Erm... what am i talking about?

Step 1: Define what you mean by "proper" and no, don't just point at game X, because game X is not ED, so any direct transfer into ED probably wouldn't work too well.
Step 2: Explain why you would like to see it, what benefits and what problems it might bring to the game.
Step 3: Ask for feedback.
Step 4: Be willing to accept that not everyone will like your ideas, and that we have a large community here, with each person having their own preferences for what FD should focus on.

With regards to step 4, this is something you do seem to have trouble accepting, since we have had many threads on it, and the usual trend is that most people are against such fleet mechanics like is usually described. Now, you might disagree, but it doesn't make them wrong for not wanting it, just as you are not wrong for wanting it.
 
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As i see it elite dangerous is on the fence between an mmorpg and just an online multiplayer like battlefield. FDev needs to make a decision on what side of the fence they want to be on. I of course would like to see it move to the MMO side and proper fleet mechanics would move the game in that direction. And not take away from the solo experience. As in all MMO's you do not have to join a group/fleet to participate in any of the content that the developers create.

FDev has been making Quality of life improvements to the game. I would like to see Quality of life improvements for fleet life in game.

I feel their is a sufficient amount of commanders who would take advantage of proper fleet mechanics to warrant its addition to the game.

What would be nice is to hear from FDev on this if they would start their own thread or have a poll on it I feel that would help this discussion.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
As i see it elite dangerous is on the fence between an mmorpg and just an online multiplayer like battlefield. FDev needs to make a decision on what side of the fence they want to be on. I of course would like to see it move to the MMO side and proper fleet mechanics would move the game in that direction. And not take away from the solo experience. As in all MMO's you do not have to join a group/fleet to participate in any of the content that the developers create.

FDev has been making Quality of life improvements to the game. I would like to see Quality of life improvements for fleet life in game.

I feel their is a sufficient amount of commanders who would take advantage of proper fleet mechanics to warrant its addition to the game.

What would be nice is to hear from FDev on this if they would start their own thread or have a poll on it I feel that would help this discussion.

Still no definition of "proper" in the context of Fleet Mechanics.
 
Still no definition of "proper" in the context of Fleet Mechanics.
I feel their are plenty of threads on what "proper fleet mechanics " could be, this thread is not about the how it is about the why. I feel the why is the most important discussion we could have now till we hear from FDev the how is just a back and forth argument. Till we have a definite answer about the "why" I say let's not talk about the "how".
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I feel their are plenty of threads on what "proper fleet mechanics " could be, this thread is not about the how it is about the why. I feel the why is the most important discussion we could have now till we hear from FDev the how is just a back and forth argument. Till we have a definite answer about the "why" I say let's not talk about the "how".

Without the "how" the "why" argument will likely never end.

There's no point asking players to vote, in my opinion, on an unspecified feature that may / may not affect them as they can't read the scope definition to determine for themselves whether they are likely to be affected (or the game changed in a manner that they do not agree with).
 
I think it will boil down to:

1:Bossperson
2:Underlings
3:......
4: Profit!!!
I disagree with you. In the Earth Defense Fleet it is NOT ABOUT the boss or the underlings or profit. If you would take the time to read my recruitment thread you would see that. And the EDF is not special many fleets feel the same way.

In the EDF it is about working together toward a common goal. Helping each other achieve personal goals. If you ask any one of our over 100 members I always say that it is not about one of us but about all of us together.

I can understand some of the preconceived notion's of some commanders about "proper fleet mechanics" and fleets in general. But I feel they don't take the time to do their due diligence on the Earth Defense Fleet.

We have a code of conduct with in the fleet. We promote respect to other commanders out side of our fleet even our enemies. To be pessimistic about every fleet is just unfair.

IF YOU DONT TAKE THE TIME TO KNOW US YOU CAN NOT JUDGE US.

And to say all fleets are the same is just being close minded.
 
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I feel their are plenty of threads on what "proper fleet mechanics " could be, this thread is not about the how it is about the why. I feel the why is the most important discussion we could have now till we hear from FDev the how is just a back and forth argument. Till we have a definite answer about the "why" I say let's not talk about the "how".

Why what though? There are plenty of posts about fleet mechanics, but each person will have their own point of view as to what they are.

Your responsibility as OP is to clarify what you are taking about.

12 pages, and no definition of what is under discussion.

Why "proper" fleet mechanics? Erm, because they might be good, if implemented in a good way, that I personally like. But if not, then no, they won't be good, so maybe FD shouldn't implement them.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
We have a code of conduct with in the fleet. We promote respect to other commanders out side of our fleet even our enemies. To be pessimistic about every fleet is just unfair.

IF YOU DONT TAKE THE TIME TO KNOW YOU CAN NOT JUDGE US.

And to say all fleets are the same is just being close minded.

It's not just about one group / fleet though - the last sentence admits that not all groups / fleets are the same, i.e. some will be better, some worse.

It's the worse kind that are likely to use any group / fleet advantages to facilitate adversely affecting other players....
 
Why what though? There are plenty of posts about fleet mechanics, but each person will have their own point of view as to what they are.

Your responsibility as OP is to clarify what you are taking about.

12 pages, and no definition of what is under discussion.

Why "proper" fleet mechanics? Erm, because they might be good, if implemented in a good way, that I personally like. But if not, then no, they won't be good, so maybe FD shouldn't implement them.
I clearly said in my OP this thread was not about the "HOW" but about the "WHY" if you take some time to look up some of my older threads you will see what "proper fleet mechanics " I would like to see in game.

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It's not just about one group / fleet though - the last sentence admits that not all groups / fleets are the same, i.e. some will be better, some worse.

It's the worse kind that are likely to use any group / fleet advantages to facilitate adversely affecting other players....
I have to disagree with your premise that only hostile fleet would take advantage of "proper fleet mechanics"

That kind of thing goes on with or without "proper fleet mechanics".
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I have to disagree with your premise that only hostile fleet would take advantage of "proper fleet mechanics"

That kind of thing goes on with or without "proper fleet mechanics".

If did not say that only some fleets would take advantage of "proper" fleet mechanics - I said that some fleets would take advantage of them to facilitate adversely affecting other players.

If it happens already, can we expect it to get better or worse if "proper" fleet mechanics are introduced, and why?
 
So if all fleets are not the same, how can in-game fleet tools be of any use?
1-to better represent ourselves in game as a organized fleet
2-better organizational and Communication tools
3- fleet size content "fleet missions"
4- sharing of resources
I have said this over and over again I feel it is redundant to keep asking me the same question over and over.

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If did not say that only some fleets would take advantage of "proper" fleet mechanics - I said that some fleets would take advantage of them to facilitate adversely affecting other players.

If it happens already, can we expect it to get better or worse if "proper" fleet mechanics are introduced, and why?
I feel that if "proper fleet mechanics " was in game one of the advantages would be being able to identify hostile commanders and griefers and pirates. Bad guys always like to stay in the shadows this would bring them into the light.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I feel that if "proper fleet mechanics " was in game one of the advantages would be being able to identify hostile commanders and griefers and pirates. Bad guys always like to stay in the shadows this would bring them into the light.

If it was only about Fleet Tags then there'd probably be little opposition to the proposal.

1-to better represent ourselves in game as a organized fleet
2-better organizational and Communication tools
3- fleet size content "fleet missions"
4- sharing of resources
I have said this over and over again I feel it is redundant to keep asking me the same question over and over.

.... except, it's not just about tags - it's about control of membership, fleet only content and fleet bank.

Interestingly it omits Territorial Control - although that may be a later feature request.
 
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I clearly said in my OP this thread was not about the "HOW" but about the "WHY" if you take some time to look up some of my older threads you will see what "proper fleet mechanics " I would like to see in game.

I've read and been involved in your old threads. But basically, what you are saying is, everyone who reads this thread should go back and read your old threads. Otherwise they cannot really comment.

How about making life easy for people who may not have read your old threads, and at least include a link to any relevant posts about what you think are "proper" fleet mechanics? Or better still, copy/paste your text into the OP here.
 
Still - without a firm definition of "proper fleet mechanics" it's not very easy to discuss the possible impacts or how they could be implemented.

For example, for the Drunks of Sol - proper fleet mechanics would involve requiring the first 30 minutes of gameplay looking for your keys, trying to remember who is the designated driver, and daring to work out if the mess on your flight suit is that kebab from last night, or a zero-g bathroom malfunction.
 
It was mentioned earlier in the thread that FD are giving some consideration to this issue. Could someone please clarify what exactly is being considered (if we actually know of course!)?
 
If it was only about Fleet Tags then there'd probably be little opposition to the proposal.



.... except, it's not just about tags - it's about control of membership, fleet only content and fleet bank.

Interestingly it omits Territorial Control - although that may be a later feature request.

I ask that you do not put words in my mouth. I said nothing about fleet banks and I did not say fleet only content I said fleet size content their is a difference.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I ask that you do not put words in my mouth. I said nothing about fleet banks and I did not say fleet only content I said fleet size content their is a difference.

What does "4- sharing of resources" mean then?

There's a fine line between "fleet size content" and content that can only be attempted by a fleet, in my opinion.
 
Greatings!
My English is not very good!

Fleets need:

1) ability to choose which system to expand (a system like power play, the players in the faction can vote)
2) name of the group/fleet in the ship
3) create the group in the game, and all players within this, see their peers in the galaxy map
4) Simple list for view cmdrs conected.
5)finally, a screen where members can write fleet indications, news or orders and that they only see them in the group.

This would be enough, this does not affect the solo players. POWER BY GOOGLE TRANLATOR :D
 
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