Shield Strippers - A Thread About Weapons

[Aashenfox]

Hm, I might have to look into Cytos for some of my ships. Thanks!



I know this is the common understanding, but that's not been my experience - regarding shield damage at least. For the module vs hull damage issue, I just consciously aim for not-modules. It's a litter counter-intuitive, but it works mostly, and the hull damage is pretty great.

Maybe I'm just expecting too much from them vs shields, but they always seems very underwhelming compared to plasma or beams. It could well be that the engineering comes into a play a lot here too, and I'm judging long-range rails doing essentially stock damage vs efficient or overcharged other weapons. But even when it's long-range rails vs long-range beams, both of the same size, beams always seem to do better vs shields, regardless of what the numbers claim.

I don't completely agree, cos I find them very effective at shield stripping, but it's rather moot, cos their role isn't really as damage dealers. They have two of the strongest special effects (feedback and super pen), so think of them as applicators of those effects and you'll never have ammo problems either. Feedback railguns are the most devastating weapon in the game BY MILES when used against a shield cell deploying enemy. They have infinite dps; however big the cell is it will be cancelled.

In the case of an 8A cell bank for example, on a T10, I think that's over 2000mj (can't remember off hand) for two hits from a small hardpoint. Every single one of my ships has at least 2 feedback railguns, cos if you let someone get a big cell off, you're back to square one.

 

[Trollymctrollerson]

I like the class 5 hard point. Equip a bi weave on a federal anvil ship, 4 pips to shields and ram them till their shields drop. Then pump their hull full of frags and plasma.

 

[RamirezKurita]

Short range modded cytoscramblers. For extra brutality (and somewhat questionable practicality) go for the inertial impact special effect. The damage boosts stack multiplicativly, and leave you with an absurdly powerful small weapon that rivals a huge fixed beam laser.

Inertial Impact doesn't increase the damage as much as it might seem though, as it converts a good chunk of the damage to kinetic which is less effective against shields. It'll still increase damage overall as 50% is a pretty big increase to raw damage, but it won't be a full 50% higher DPS against shields. And as you implied with regards to practicality, 6.5 degrees of jitter is pretty harsh.

For overall damage boosts, it might be just as effective to simply go for the oversized mod unless you spend most of your time within arm's reach of the target. Another alternative that unfortunately causes a minor loss in shield stripping power is phasing sequence, letting the Cytos take advantage of their DPS to soften up the hull before the shields go down.

 

[Screemonster]

Oh, does phasing sequence not have hull hardness/resistance applied to it? That's... interesting.

 

[RamirezKurita]

Oh, does phasing sequence not have hull hardness/resistance applied to it? That's... interesting.

Unless they have radically changed it recently, no. Phasing sequence also ignores hull resistances, although I can't remember whether shield resists apply to it. I'd imagine that one of the PvPers who have experimented against other players would be able to clarify further.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I don't completely agree, cos I find them very effective at shield stripping, but it's rather moot, cos their role isn't really as damage dealers. They have two of the strongest special effects (feedback and super pen), so think of them as applicators of those effects and you'll never have ammo problems either. Feedback railguns are the most devastating weapon in the game BY MILES when used against a shield cell deploying enemy. They have infinite dps; however big the cell is it will be cancelled.

In the case of an 8A cell bank for example, on a T10, I think that's over 2000mj (can't remember off hand) for two hits from a small hardpoint. Every single one of my ships has at least 2 feedback railguns, cos if you let someone get a big cell off, you're back to square one.

I tried feedback rails, but I wasn't impressed at all myself. I hate losing a hardpoint (or two) to something so situational. I'd rather do more damage over the entire fight.

The most fun way I've had of dealing with shield cells is thermal cascade cannons - it's funny to watch an enemy pop a cell only to lose hull hardpoints from the heat. Shield cells aren't really a big problem for me in PvE though, so I generally just don't care. Given that I usually save my kenetics for when shields are down (and how low NPC's let their shields go before popping a cell), if I unload with everything I have when I see a cell start to go off, I can usually negate it entirely anyway, or even break their shields before the cell kicks in.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Oh, does phasing sequence not have hull hardness/resistance applied to it? That's... interesting.

damage that phases is absolute... but its also hull only.
and only as long as it phases.

short range inertial impact burst laser are my fav. weapon if i am in an agile fighter that can keep the 500m max distance.
they strip shields and shred npc hulls equally,

to bad C3 burst laser already start to feel like pulse lasers that are forced to fire three shots for every trigger pull, instead of shooting "bursts",
and C4 burst laser actually "burst" slower then rapid fire pulses... so forget about those.

 

[Aashenfox]

I tried feedback rails, but I wasn't impressed at all myself. I hate losing a hardpoint (or two) to something so situational. I'd rather do more damage over the entire fight.

The most fun way I've had of dealing with shield cells is thermal cascade cannons - it's funny to watch an enemy pop a cell only to lose hull hardpoints from the heat. Shield cells aren't really a big problem for me in PvE though, so I generally just don't care. Given that I usually save my kenetics for when shields are down (and how low NPC's let their shields go before popping a cell), if I unload with everything I have when I see a cell start to go off, I can usually negate it entirely anyway, or even break their shields before the cell kicks in.

I guess when you say pve, you mean getting interdicted by bill and ben. In assassinations, and CZs, stopping those shield cells increases productivity greatly. Honestly, with no disrespect, I'll have to agree to disagree with you. For me they are efficient shield strippers (even with feedback, despite the damage reduction) and the utility offered by feedback cascade and super penetrator are unmatched. Do I need to mention that my accuracy with railguns is about 75% and that is kinda minimum required to be effective with them? I'm not a master, but I'm good enough to realise some of their potential. They are, quite simply, the best weapons in the game. I really hope you'll give them another chance.

The only thing you said that I can disagree with on a factual basis is that you said you'd rather do more damage with other weapons over the course of a fight. Well, to be fair, that's because you don't believe they do good damage. But they do. So, particularly in small hardpoints, a pair of feedback cascade railguns is 9 times out of 10 the best thing you can put in them, both situationally, and as primary damage dealers. Small railguns are capable of more sustained damage than most medium weapons, that's why no larges, cos they'd hit like a huge hardpoint.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Ok, wow. Just watched one of Fretnox's videos where Cytos are in play, and that's some impressive stuff! The jitter is a lot less bad than I was expecting.

[video=youtube;xwxeRTfPt4o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwxeRTfPt4o[/video]

Those things seem tailor-made for my Alliance ships. Just a question of if I can stomach being pledged to Delaine for that long...

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I guess when you say pve, you mean getting interdicted by bill and ben. In assassinations, and CZs, stopping those shield cells increases productivity greatly. Honestly, with no disrespect, I'll have to agree to disagree with you. For me they are efficient shield strippers (even with feedback, despite the damage reduction) and the utility offered by feedback cascade and super penetrator are unmatched. Do I need to mention that my accuracy with railguns is about 75% and that is kinda minimum required to be effective with them? I'm not a master, but I'm good enough to realise some of their potential. They are, quite simply, the best weapons in the game. I really hope you'll give them another chance.

The only thing you said that I can disagree with on a factual basis is that you said you'd rather do more damage with other weapons over the course of a fight. Well, to be fair, that's because you don't believe they do good damage. But they do. So, particularly in small hardpoints, a pair of feedback cascade railguns is 9 times out of 10 the best thing you can put in them.

By PvE I mean CZ, RES, and Assassination Missions, but I'm totally happy to agree to disagree about rails. When I said I'd rather do more damage over the course of a fight though, I meant "have a not-rail in the hardpoint and use it often" vs "have a feedback rail and save it for shield cells".

I do use railguns in my Alliance ships (long range, no specials currently), I just have them paired with beams for taking down shields and use the rails for hull damage. I'm pretty good with them; I don't miss much at all. I like rails a lot, I just don't like them for shields.

 

[GunnerBill]

My thoughts about rails vs beams for PvE is that unless it's Dangerous Conda or higher a full beam loadout will be better than one sacrificing 2 slots to rail guns, even small ones. So on balance in PvE I run full beams or some PA's for variety.

Mostly I keep beaming while the cells fire and my beams keep up with the recharge, i.e. the shields don't increase.

Well I say that running Chief's, Challengers or Corvettes in full efficient beam loadouts or occasionally with 2 x PA's.

Now if you go to a Threat 7 Pirate SS then those Deadly Conda's popping SCB's absolutely need Rail Guns otherwise like someone said: Back to square one.

PvP = railguns.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Ok, wow. Just watched one of Fretnox's videos where Cytos are in play, and that's some impressive stuff! The jitter is a lot less bad than I was expecting.



Those things seem tailor-made for my Alliance ships. Just a question of if I can stomach being pledged to Delaine for that long...

hmm, wasn't that during the time when there was a bug, reducing the jitter to almost nothing?

 

[DaggerSnake]

I’ve been rapid trigger firing 3 large fixed guardian plasma chargers and they seem to melt NPC Shields quickly. I haven’t even actually tried them on thargoids yet.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

hmm, wasn't that during the time when there was a bug, reducing the jitter to almost nothing?

That would be disappointing.

I’ve been rapid trigger firing 3 large fixed guardian plasma chargers and they seem to melt NPC Shields quickly. I haven’t even actually tried them on thargoids yet.

Interesting... I have those unlocked, but I never tried rapid triggering them. I'll have to test that out.

 

[Saool]

Beams and Rails. My default selection for everything.

I don't actually fit that to everything, but that is the base line I start from.

 

[Ted Striker]

Ok, wow. Just watched one of Fretnox's videos where Cytos are in play, and that's some impressive stuff! The jitter is a lot less bad than I was expecting.



Those things seem tailor-made for my Alliance ships. Just a question of if I can stomach being pledged to Delaine for that long...

Are cytoscramblers really doing that much damage to hull? I see the frag damage but the cytos look like they're doing a lot too, and I thought they were supposed to do pitiful hull damage even when damage buffed.

 

[Vardaugas]

Are cytoscramblers really doing that much damage to hull? I see the frag damage but the cytos look like they're doing a lot too, and I thought they were supposed to do pitiful hull damage even when damage buffed.

If corrosive effect is on the target, even Cytoscramblers deal damage.

 

[Yure]

:::Arrives with handful of dollar bills... Leaves disappointed:::

 

[Frenotx]

Hm, I might have to look into Cytos for some of my ships. Thanks!



I know this is the common understanding, but that's not been my experience - regarding shield damage at least. For the module vs hull damage issue, I just consciously aim for not-modules. It's a litter counter-intuitive, but it works mostly, and the hull damage is pretty great.

Maybe I'm just expecting too much from them vs shields, but they always seems very underwhelming compared to plasma or beams. It could well be that the engineering comes into a play a lot here too, and I'm judging long-range rails doing essentially stock damage vs efficient or overcharged other weapons. But even when it's long-range rails vs long-range beams, both of the same size, beams always seem to do better vs shields, regardless of what the numbers claim.

Inertial Impact doesn't increase the damage as much as it might seem though, as it converts a good chunk of the damage to kinetic which is less effective against shields. It'll still increase damage overall as 50% is a pretty big increase to raw damage, but it won't be a full 50% higher DPS against shields. And as you implied with regards to practicality, 6.5 degrees of jitter is pretty harsh.

For overall damage boosts, it might be just as effective to simply go for the oversized mod unless you spend most of your time within arm's reach of the target. Another alternative that unfortunately causes a minor loss in shield stripping power is phasing sequence, letting the Cytos take advantage of their DPS to soften up the hull before the shields go down.

I assure you, the absurd raw damage increase more than makes up for the odd damage typing. Plus, if you make sure to mix in a corrosive weapon, that damage typing (plus the corrosive effect) make the cytoscramblers surprisingly nasty vs. hull, too. You do have to remain close to use them, but in PvE that's not too hard. Here's me blasting through a wing assassination mission solo in less than a minute using the inertial impact short range cytos, and some corrosive frags:
[video=youtube;OyLHNC1zylU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyLHNC1zylU[/video]

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I've been playing around with my large Guardian Plasma Chargers, and they've been pretty fun. Less damage than my Plasma Accelerators, but, well, they're different at least. And I like the idea that I can theoretically damage Thargoids.

The damage seems to occasionally be wildly inconsistent though. One time a burst will take nearly a full ring off a high-ranked Python or Anaconda, but other times, I'll land two or even three hits on an Adder with all rings in the red, and his shields will survive. Anyone else seen that? Or anyone heard FD comment on the issue?