Ship cost scaling in this game needs to be leveled out.

There, I said it. Now, everyone tell me that I want the game to pander to me, and that I want everything handed to me on a silver platter.

In all honesty, some of the game's larger ships feel far, far too expensive for what they are. In terms of piloted ships, Elite: Dangerous is a game about asymmetrical balance -- not about aspiring toward progressively better and more effective ship tiers, which is the case with Eve. Taking this into consideration, why are larger ships so, SO much more expensive than smaller, equally capable vessels? I get that heavy transports should cost a great deal to offset the inherent advantages they bring to the table in terms of long-term trade profits, but as a whole, larger ships in this game can easily start to cost well over a hundred million credits -- if not hundreds of millions -- after taking operating costs along the lines of upgrades and repairs into account, as well as the hefty initial price tag. But for what? If I want to kit out a Dropship or something for combat, I could just as easily kit out a dirt-cheap Eagle or Viper and start mowing things down just as capably.

I believe larger ships should be more expensive than smaller, lighter craft for obvious purposes, but it currently feels way out of proportion. The number of potentially fun, viable ways of even making the sort of money required for larger ships diminishes substantially when we're talking scales as ridiculous as ~100 million+ credits, and I for one don't feel like subjugating myself to that narrow road in a purported sandbox that was marketed as rewarding multiple playstyles. In addition, larger ships should require some kind of non-monetary prerequisite -- a permit that can be earned through hard work (potentially in terms of combat / explorer / trading ranks), for instance -- to pilot. A greenhorn shouldn't necessarily be able to pilot a two-man Python by himself if he happens to stumble across 50 or 60 million credits. Non-monetary operating prerequisites, in my opinion, would be a far more sensible -- and arguably deeper and more meaningful -- approach to large ships.

TL;DR - Simply demanding more money is a brutish, elementary way of prohibiting most of the player base from having the prestige of operating a giant vessel. Ship costs need to be decreased dramatically at the upper tier in light of the asymmetrical ship balance the game tries to sell, and pilots shouldn't be able to purchase and start flying larger vessels out of the clear blue when they accrue enough money to purchase them. The overall goal would be to reward more playstyles with the potential of operating large vessels while deflating the arbitrarily ludicrous cost of maintaining them. The current system is basically a bad, superficially-implemented way of ensuring that more prestigious ships aren't owned by everyone and their grandmother, and it forces those of us that have an interest in larger ships to play the big money game.

I don't want to be a credit-farming tycoon for the sake of being able to afford a ship I want while other players are kicking butt and are perfectly content with their equally capable, smaller vessels. I hate to pout, but it's just not fair.
 
Last edited:
Serious question. Why is 100 million + Cr ridiculous?
-
In one month I have progressed from a Sidey to an Asp worth about 11 million and I have 5 million in the bank. This was all done without much difficulty, and I am sure others have progressed much further because I haven't really been trying these last two weeks since I got the Asp. Just found a nice system for mining and I reckon if I pushed it I could make 4 million a day (so 100 million in less than a month), but I've got more interesting things to do once I have enough money for a few rebuys.
-
With these numbers in mind it seems to me that no player will be "prohibited from having the prestige of operating a giant vessel" if they are prepared to put in the hard yards for it. OK, the post-release players may still be finding their feet but I confidently expect some of them to overtake me in their Clippers, Dropships and Type 9s while I am still in the Asp. Sure they need to have a financial plan in place to support such a big ship, but that's a fundamental aspect of the game and just dropping the ship prices to make things easier isn't the way to go in my opinion.
-
The permit to operate that you suggest is a good idea and I think FD intends to implement it in the form of faction standing restrictions on access to top level hardware. I don't think it's in place yet though.
 
Serious question. Why is 100 million + Cr ridiculous?
-
In one month I have progressed from a Sidey to an Asp worth about 11 million and I have 5 million in the bank. This was all done without much difficulty, and I am sure others have progressed much further because I haven't really been trying these last two weeks since I got the Asp. Just found a nice system for mining and I reckon if I pushed it I could make 4 million a day (so 100 million in less than a month), but I've got more interesting things to do once I have enough money for a few rebuys.
-
With these numbers in mind it seems to me that no player will be "prohibited from having the prestige of operating a giant vessel" if they are prepared to put in the hard yards for it. OK, the post-release players may still be finding their feet but I confidently expect some of them to overtake me in their Clippers, Dropships and Type 9s while I am still in the Asp. Sure they need to have a financial plan in place to support such a big ship, but that's a fundamental aspect of the game and just dropping the ship prices to make things easier isn't the way to go in my opinion.
-
The permit to operate that you suggest is a good idea and I think FD intends to implement it in the form of faction standing restrictions on access to top level hardware. I don't think it's in place yet though.

Not everyone wants to invest in an asp and intensively mine for hours upon hours on end per day for months (to kit a large ship for combat, you'll need far more than the initial cost of the ship itself). Bounty hunting? Fahgetaboudit. Missions? Nada. Exploration? Naw. Missions in particular are horribly implemented in this game, since they don't scale well (if at all) in terms of credits, tasks, and difficulty. Thus, they're worthless beyond faction rep.

Pythons and Anacondas are powerful, but they're balanced around their sluggishness. In many ways, they're not as viable as smaller, more maneuverable fighters. This is called asymmetrical balance. Ships have their strengths and weaknesses, and no one ship is definitively better than another. Thus, there's no logical reason - as far as gameplay is concerned - for bigger ships to cost exponentially more. They should cost more, but they shouldn't force players to save money for months and months. Oh, and what if that priceless ship you bought and kitted gets destroyed and you're somehow caught without the money to purchase all of your ship assets back? Also, what about players that happen to be perfectly happy in their powerful, dirt-cheap ships that can run circles around NPC Anacondas?

I mean, come on. Let's get serious. There's already an UBEROMGBBQSAUCEROFLCOPTER hardcore space sim out there, and it's called Eve Online. I want a Python, but I don't want to grind it out for months and burn myself out on the game completely, and I don't want to be subjugated to a narrow playstyle (i.e. mining in X area or trading in Y area) to do it. My two cents.
 
Last edited:
the truth is its not hard but very tedious. the most i make is about 980 credits profit per cargo unit. thats a lap though.
i have never seen profit above 980 anywhere. this surely will change when the rest of the ships get put into place. but there is a weird cost thing between the lakon type 6 and type 7....it cost 11 times more than the type 7....the type 6 costs about 3.5 times more than the cobra which is the i ship leveled from...this means at maximum profit i would have to make 100 laps.....100 LAPS....which goes way down after the the type 7 back to the normal amount of time it takes to get the next ship.
but seriously why make that weird transition between type 6 and type 7 so long??
has anyone actually seen profit above 980 per cargo unit??

i just can't wait till more expansions come like interior of ships and stations to make the time between going back and forth much more enjoyable. and have more things to buy like interior options, maybe your own place....you know that sort of thing.
 
Last edited:
Not everyone wants to invest in an asp and intensively mine for hours upon hours on end per day for months
...
Thus, there's no logical reason - as far as gameplay is concerned - for bigger ships to cost exponentially more
...
Oh, and what if that priceless ship you bought and kitted gets destroyed and you're somehow caught without the money to purchase all of your ship assets back?
...
My two cents.

Fair enough, and I haven't been grinding because the "big ship" isn't my endgame (in fact I don't have an endgame, that's the beauty of ED). I do think, however, that the price differentials are there as a target and reward for those who do want to put the time in.
-
Actually, I'm guessing that in the devs eyes gameplay is exactly the reason why the big ships cost so much more. It's called realism (if I can use such a term in a space game). irl you might want a Bugatti Veyron, but if you went to the manufacturer and said "I only want to pay as much as a Ford Focus so please sell it to me at that price" they would laugh at you. That is why you see a lot of Focuses and Transit vans on the streets (think Cobras and T6s) and virtually no Veyrons. For the ordinary person in the street, which after all is our role in ED, the Veyron is almost unattainable.
-
If you haven't got the insurance you shouldn't buy the ship in the first place. It's a fundamental principle, and it has been repeated across many posts in the forum, that good game strategy is you never fly what you can't afford to lose. It doesn't in my eyes justify lowering the base prices of ships. Additionally, the high price means that by the time you have worked your way up to a large ship you should have developed the range of skills needed to ensure you don't endanger it.
-
We all have opinions about how the game could be improved (I'm really disappointed about the way some of the astrophysical phenomena have been implemented), and posting in the forum draws the devs attention to the issues, but in the end I suspect we are going to be disappointed about a lot of things because they have a vision of what the game should be. We can debate the issues but they don't have the casting vote, they have the only vote.
 
There will eventually be at least 25-30 ships playable (ninja'd), so I expect those gaps will be filled to some extent. We may also see market prices for ships affected by economic events.

I think you might also be focusing too much on some sort of arbitrary concept of how long it should take to get to some "level". Having a larger ship is a milestone that FD want to be hard-won, simply because they are so much more powerful and capable (even a basic Dropship with cheap weapons can wipe the floor with a Viper or Cobra). It may not seem balanced from the bottom rung, but the balance of this game is based on long-term goals, not one month of play.

I think DB has always intended, and FD have designed, this game to be an epic write-your-own-adventure that can last you years. It could shatter the mold of the modern instant-max-out-then-PVP-faceroll game trends. It could be something you play in phases, leave and come back to, always picking up where you left off. I could stay in my trusty Sidewinder forever, bounty hunting across the Galaxy as I have been doing since launch, with no other aspirations.

The leveling out should come with more options, but I think the ships we have are right-on in their prices. I do like the idea of having other requirements, like maybe a certain Trader Rank for a Type-9, etc.
 
Last edited:
To be honest it's a bit late in the day to now be saying this. Ships were much cheaper in the beta, and they progressively increased the cost difference due to feedback to improve the game balance. I wasn't in the beta but from what I heard, after a few weeks space was just full of Anacondas. Also the expensive ships are status symbols as much as they are practically better.
 
Last edited:
the gaps will be filled by the new ships i expect, there is supposed to be about 30 playables ones eventualy

I should certainly hope so. This game needs more variety and diversity in terms of ships almost as much as it needs a meaningful, varied sense of structure and scaling to prevent players from inevitably slamming into the concrete credit barrier. There's nothing wrong with making a few sandcastles in a sandbox, and mission scaling / significantly more rewarding and more dangerous bounty hunting spots / monetary incentives for reputation-related activities would do the game some good. There wouldn't be a problem with the absurd cost of high-end ships if the game offered an interesting variety of scalable activities. In many ways, the game feels like it's built for static, beginner-tier life. That's fine for players that are perfectly happy in their inexpensive vessels, but for others amongst us, things suck right now.
 
Last edited:
the truth is its not hard but very tedious. the most i make is about 980 credits profit per cargo unit. thats a lap though.
i have never seen profit above 980 anywhere. this surely will change when the rest of the ships get put into place. but there is a weird cost thing between the lakon type 6 and type 7....it cost 11 times more than the type 7....the type 6 costs about 3.5 times more than the cobra which is the i ship leveled from...this means at maximum profit i would have to make 100 laps.....100 LAPS....which goes way down after the the type 7 back to the normal amount of time it takes to get the next ship.
but seriously why make that weird transition between type 6 and type 7 so long??
has anyone actually seen profit above 980 per cargo unit??

i just can't wait till more expansions come like interior of ships and stations to make the time between going back and forth much more enjoyable. and have more things to buy like interior options, maybe your own place....you know that sort of thing.

More than 980cr, yes. Was doing trips for 1100 one way, and 800 the other a few weeks back, and that was with the screwy economy. During beta I had a 1500/1100 loop, no reason to think that won't return.

Smoothing out the ship progression is tricky, because different people use different ships for different tasks. I think it's pretty smooth for traders. An L7 more than doubles your cargo capacity, and should not be cheap. It's the first (as in cheapest) 'Big Ship' unless I'm mistaken. It was a lot of work to get it and now that I have it, even though it flys like a fat cow and can't land on outposts, I'm proud of it. I'm eyeing an L9 now, which looks equally difficult to obtain but still isn't out of reach, especially from within my L7.

I think fighter ships are missing some progression steps, which will almost certainly be part of the 30 total ships they're working on.
 
To be honest it's a bit late in the day to now be saying this. Ships were much cheaper in the beta, and they progressively increased the cost difference due to feedback to improve the game balance. I wasn't in the beta but from what I heard, after a few weeks space was just full of Anacondas. Also the expensive ships are status symbols as much as they are practically better.

It was overdone, then. I wasn't around in beta, but from a relatively new player's perspective, the credit barrier that exists in the game right now is very demoralizing. There's a staggering and utterly exponential increase in ship costs that can't be easily circumvented without resorting to horribly repetitious, woefully undercooked and unvaried activities along the lines of "trading" in cargo haulers or intensive mining. That might be fine for some people, but I'd rather not be subjugated to a space trucker / hauler sim in order to be able to eventually purchase and maintain the ship I want. Maybe Anacondas and Pythons should cost an exorbitant amount of money, but there's no reasonable way of earning credits quickly enough to prevent debilitating burn-out before being able to purchase and outfit them. Bounties don't appear to be a particularly competitive way of earning big money, and it's very repetitious to sink hits into respawning cookie-cutter Wanted vessels for 2 - 30k apiece for hours upon hours on end. Missions are pretty much completely pointless past day one, save for building rep. Exploration, from what I can gather, is also an inefficient way of earning decent money.

What are we left with? Honestly, there's not much to do in the game, and there's even less to do in the game that offers solid rewards. The sandbox needs more sand, and it needs a few more sandcastles for structure and meaningfulness. There's plenty of room for it, and I have high hopes for the game, but things are currently WAY out of proportion. Want to stop the average joe from being in an Anaconda within 3 weeks? Make bounty hunting more rewarding -- in dangerous, high-end zones that have an increased chance of spawning the farther out you explore, or make missions more and more difficult as they scale in risk and profit.

If the game needs a difficulty curve to justify giving players more options to earn more money, I think everyone should support it. Given the absence of high-end, dangerous factions looming on the edges of explored space that might hypothetically be worth juicy credits to hunt and kill (which can't be realistically engaged in a dinky, half-kitted Sidewinder), or the lack of missions whose employers realize your potential and are willing to give you more and more of the share as you complete contracts, I'd say the game needs sandcastles and sand more than anything right now, and more credits to go along with it to justify ship costs.
 
Last edited:
It was overdone, then. I wasn't around in beta, but from a relatively new player's perspective, the credit barrier that exists in the game right now is very demoralizing.

I found it quite daunting at first looking at how expensive the Asp (my target ship) was, but then I started racking up the money and looking at all the opportunities for travel I would be making in order to reach that target and started to feel quite psyched about it.

I wouldn't worry too much in the long term about the content level, it'll come I'm sure of it.
 
Last edited:
I found it quite daunting at first looking at how expensive the Asp (my target ship) was, but then I started racking up the money and looking at all the opportunities for travel I would be making in order to reach that target and started to feel quite psyched about it.

I wouldn't worry too much in the long term about the content level, it'll come I'm sure of it.

The Asp is near the limit of what might be reasonable as far as ship costs go. A ship like the Python, on the other hand, is exponentially more expensive when taking into consideration the price of the ship itself, upgrades required to effectively kit it out, and maintenance costs. Think about how "daunting" it was to buy and kit an Asp, and then multiply that by a factor of fifteen or so. It's pretty damn hardcore for no well-substantiated reason. Ships like the Anaconda or the Python aren't even that much better than much smaller vessels at destroying things efficiently, they can't trade nearly as well as dedicated, high-tier haulers, they're bad for exploration by virtue of their limited range, and they're much, much harder and more stressful to maintain in a cost-effective way than excellent ships like the Cobra. The only thing you're really getting out of a high-end combat-oriented vessel is more cargo space (which is pointless, since dedicated cargo haulers are substantially cheaper and better for hauling), a better TTK against enemy vessels (which isn't necessary, since 4 hardpoints is more than enough to vaporize most anything), and more armor and shields at the cost of agility and speed. In other words, the ships just aren't good enough to warrant their price tag.

Accessibility is an important aspect in games. Big ships don't feel very accessible right now, and part of the blame lies with the undercooked content in the game. All games need a sense of scaling and progression, and in many crucial ways, that's not really what ED is offering at the current moment. If things are going to stay as they are for the foreseeable future, I don't see any real problem with leveling out ship costs. I guess that'll never happen in light of the apparent beta feedback to the contrary, though, so the only thing we can do is hope for more and better content soon.
 
Last edited:
I'm fine with the way things are now, the price differences give something to work for.
Credits seem hard to come by at first but as the game progresses your eaning potential can multiply in line with the ship prices
Personally I am happy with my 3 'little' ships Eagle, Cobra and Type6 the bigger ships don't currently feature in my plans. May throw an adder in for mining if they sort the scoop out.
 
Last edited:
I'm fine with the way things are now, the price differences give something to work for.
Credits seem hard to come by at first but as the game progresses your eaning potential can multiply in line with the ship prices
Personally I am happy with 'little' my 3 ships Eagle, Cobra and Type6 the bigger ships don't currently feature in my plans.

Earning potential doesn't really increase in line with ship costs unless you're wanting to intensively haul cargo through trading or mining. Exploration, missions (missions are basically pointless at the moment as far as realistically earning credits in a time-efficient manner), and bounty hunting are all pretty much just as profitable in a stock sidewinder (equipped with scanners, of course) as they are in a fully kitted Cobra. You can visit a random planetary ring system's resource extraction sites, get lucky and have a bunch of wanted Cobras endlessly spawn in, and plink them with your Sidewinder's stock pulse lasers for 10 - 30k apiece with the help of ever-present authority vessels for hundreds of thousands of credits per day, which is exactly the same thing you're capable of doing in a Viper, or any other ship.

In your defense,there's *some* degree of scale if you're using appropriate ships and kits, but on the whole, it's nowhere near enough to be considered "in line" with the utterly exponential ship price scaling at the moment after the Asp. For that, the game desperately needs more -- and better -- higher-end, more profitable content to encourage and reward a more diverse variety of activities. Variety and content is the name of the game. It's the number one thing ED needs to focus on. It needs to build and improve upon the nonexistent or undercooked features in place.

Anyway, I'm kind of getting off track. I'm fine with giving players things to aspire for, but there has to be a bridge of accessibility that can accommodate those aspirations within a reasonable span of time. Otherwise, player burn-out is going to cause the game to wither away as players drop out after slamming into the credit barrier and find that they're forced to do a limited number of repetitious activities to efficiently earn decent money toward bigger ships. On the other hand, they can be content with their current vessels and stop worrying about money, which is fine -- although there's not much of a point to the game without money-oriented goals, since the game's core features are very, very barebones and superficial at the moment.
 
Last edited:
Well, if ships aren't the goal, then what is? Your rank? Please. I could care less about my ranking and standing with any of the factions. My concerns are making money, and having the biggest ship to help me make money. If you're not prepared for the grind, to reach that "end game" then why are you here? If your focus is on combat, and the best options are the "inexpensive" smaller ships, then focus on those ships.

This game has to have some reason to keep you hooked and playing. If everything is handed to you too quickly, you'll throw in the towel in a couple of months and never play again. This game is trying to establish a level of longevity. Trying to keep people playing, so that when the DLC comes out, you'll be ready for it.

Could certain ships be cheaper? Of course they could, but this game shouldn't be held to any other games but the previous Elite games. Those games were simulators. Pure and simple. This is a simulator. If you're looking for the logic of EVE, go back to EVE. You're in new territory friend. Time to change your mindset.
 
On the other hand a wing of ASPs, Anacondas, etc can effectively make a difference in the war zone instances. IMO they effectively will take "fifteen" times less time to deal with capital ships.

We've seen nothing yet and be sure those ships will come handy. The plasma cannon ( no idea but shoots a big pink projectile ) can effectively kill a kitted Cobra outright from full hull full shields. And on top of that wreck the shield generator for good if you are able to survive it ( did with 4x% hull and had to run away like a proper battered wet dog... ).

Granted they are not build to deal with small game but go after big ships.

Prices are a bit out of reach at the moment ( for me ) but then I spend too much cash kitting out the ships and testing too many combinations to get best performance to maximum gain ( mass, energy use, firepower, jump distance, etc ).
 
Last edited:

Lestat

Banned
First off Stop comparing Elite (Flight sticks)with EVE Point and click). Stop asking for a easy mode. Question for the Op. What are you flying right now?
 
M
The Asp is near the limit of what might be reasonable as far as ship costs go. A ship like the Python, on the other hand, is exponentially more expensive when taking into consideration the price of the ship itself, upgrades required to effectively kit it out, and maintenance costs. Think about how "daunting" it was to buy and kit an Asp, and then multiply that by a factor of fifteen or so. It's pretty damn hardcore for no well-substantiated reason. Ships like the Anaconda or the Python aren't even that much better than much smaller vessels at destroying things efficiently, they can't trade nearly as well as dedicated, high-tier haulers, they're bad for exploration by virtue of their limited range, and they're much, much harder and more stressful to maintain in a cost-effective way than excellent ships like the Cobra. The only thing you're really getting out of a high-end combat-oriented vessel is more cargo space (which is pointless, since dedicated cargo haulers are substantially cheaper and better for hauling), a better TTK against enemy vessels (which isn't necessary, since 4 hardpoints is more than enough to vaporize most anything), and more armor and shields at the cost of agility and speed. In other words, the ships just aren't good enough to warrant their price tag.

Accessibility is an important aspect in games. Big ships don't feel very accessible right now, and part of the blame lies with the undercooked content in the game. All games need a sense of scaling and progression, and in many crucial ways, that's not really what ED is offering at the current moment. If things are going to stay as they are for the foreseeable future, I don't see any real problem with leveling out ship costs. I guess that'll never happen in light of the apparent beta feedback to the contrary, though, so the only thing we can do is hope for more and better content soon.

In that case then I think it really is about them being status symbols.
 
Back
Top Bottom