Ship interiors as per-ship DLC: who would want this?

[Ian Skippy]

So just for fun a little hypothetical scenario. Its based on a number of assumptions, which are in turn based on nothing but wild guesses, fragments of logic and a half-empty bottle of disturbingly cheap rum:

• There are quite a few different ships in ED
• Some of these ships are big. Really, really big.
• A modular approach would lead to a staggering number of permutations.
• The more a DLC contains, the more expensive it is to make.
• The more expensive it is to make, the more likely it won't be made at all.
• Having people move around a ship that itself is moving around in space is a PITA to develop for all kinds of reasons.
• Many gameplay design choices in ED are based around the idea that the player is in his chair, and able to respond in seconds.
• The few Really Big flight sims like FS2020 typically have stores that allow you to buy individual planes ranging from (almost) free to tens of dollars.

With that out of the way, the question is: who would be interested in the following:

• Each ship interior would be its own paid-for DLC in the Arx Store.
• Ship prices would range from 5USD for a sidewinder up to $29.99 for the interior of the cutter.
• You can only walk around a ship when its docked, either at a station/base or on a planets surface.
• Total number of people walking in your ship is limited to the maximum number of multicrew seats
• Upon takeoff all players on board are moved to MC seats.
• Little to no modularity: layout is fixed to bridge/living quarters/fixed core rooms like the powerplant and such.
• Visual customization is possible, presumably via Arx purchases.
• No functional gameplay: i.e. there is no in-game advantage beyond immersion.

With the above limitations in mind, would this be a cool addition or a waste of resources to you? If the latter, is it because you dont care about interiors or because any of the limitations?

 

[Deleted member 110222]

• No functional gameplay: i.e. there is no in-game advantage beyond immersion.

This bit.

If you can't see how this is a problem, let me explain.

Once people have put their money in, well, how do you plan on having anything meaningful to do later, potentially, if it has already been sold as an elaborate cosmetic. Do we suddenly open it up to everyone? What about the people who paid for it? What do they get in return? Suppose you could flog it as early access but given how Odyssey was received that might not be a good idea for FD...

Let it go.

We don't have ship interiors because there is nothing to do in them. And this is the right call. If a gamespace has nothing to do, it's best to just not let that space be accessible at all.

A lot of folk won't see this but they're getting blinded by emotion.

 

[Bottom Hat]

Those are some beautifully researched evidence based deductions mate, but where are the steam charts?


Ps I'm joking Ian, I am laughing with your conclusions!

 

[TheRoninX]

I love ship interiors, we should have interiors. I am settling for FC interiors in this game. I will burn my PC down and force feed it to not hungry chipmunks before I piecemeal buy interiors from the ARX store. Feed my burnt PC to perfectly fed chipmunks until their bottoms blow out just incase I was not clear.

 

[Terry Daniels]

Your prices are a bit wack, esp if only bits of the ships are being modelled but I'd pay a fiver for Krait II and Imp. Courier internals (maybe the Python).

To be honest, I'd pay that just for steps up to the door and turbolift to the bridge actually. I despise that blue cylinder!

 

[Andro]

We don't have ship interiors because there is nothing to do in them.

It blows my mind that people still believe this. Although, you are correct, there is nothing to do in them yet because they don't exist.

With that out of the way, the question is: who would be interested in the following:

• Each ship interior would be its own paid-for DLC in the Arx Store.
• Ship prices would range from 5USD for a sidewinder up to $29.99 for the interior of the cutter.
• You can only walk around a ship when its docked, either at a station/base or on a planets surface.
• Total number of people walking in your ship is limited to the maximum number of multicrew seats
• Upon takeoff all players on board are moved to MC seats.
• Little to no modularity: layout is fixed to bridge/living quarters/fixed core rooms like the powerplant and such.
• Visual customization is possible, presumably via Arx purchases.
• No functional gameplay: i.e. there is no in-game advantage beyond immersion.

Not interested, because of all of the stipulations. I don't believe so many compromises are needed to accomplish something that most people would be happy with.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

It blows my mind that people still believe this. Although, you are correct, there is nothing to do in them yet because they don't exist.


Not interested, because of all of the stipulations. I don't believe so many compromises are needed to accomplish something that most people would be happy with.

So if there is something to do in them, what is it?

Can you show me? Go on, you just made this your responsibility to show.

And no, "We could do things like repairs and such" does not count. I want mechanics to the very last detail and minigames, AKA I won't be taking you seriously here as you are not a dev.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Those are some beautifully researched evidence based deductions mate, but where are the steam charts?


Ps I'm joking Ian, I am laughing with your conclusions!

Haha, its all good. Just curious about it; I see loads of topics about interiors in the line of "why doesn't FD just go an make this amazing list of dreams I have?". Was just wondering how people felt about a significantly more limited, but also more plausible, concept of interiors.

 

[Northpin]

I have nothing against ship interiors as cosmetics with no functional gameplay... sort of reminds me of housing in other mmo i have played.

But there is a bigger chance they'd release it as a payed DLC - that is if they manage to find a compelling gameplay around ship interiors.

Edit: actually i would pay some heavy arx to get them for some of my ships.
Pretty much like i already did it for 3 carriers (layout, atc and paints) and lots of ship kits and paintjobs for 3 accounts.

 

[Bottom Hat]

Haha, its all good. Just curious about it; I see loads of topics about interiors in the line of "why doesn't FD just go an make this amazing list of dreams I have?". Was just wondering how people felt about a significantly more limited, but also more plausible, concept of interiors.

I like the ideas mate, I really think they are well thought through, even if it doesn't prove a popular opinion - but as you know all too well, you can't please everyone all the time..... especially on here!!

 

[Andro]

Let's unpack all of this.

And no, "We could do things like repairs and such" does not count.

You ask for an example, with repairs being a very good example, and dismiss it outright for whatever reason, OK ¯\(ツ)/¯.

I want mechanics to the very last detail and minigames,

This is a fair request, I could think up a few...

AKA I won't be taking you seriously here as you are not a dev.

Oh, well then why would I waste my time addressing you if you've already shown me that you're not willing to discuss this in good faith?

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Let's unpack all of this.

You ask for an example, with repairs being a very good example, and dismiss it outright for whatever reason, OK ¯\(ツ)/¯.

This is a fair request, I could think up a few...

Oh, well then why would I waste my time addressing you if you've already shown me that you're not willing to discuss this in good faith?

Why would I want to get out of my seat to fidget around with repairing something when I can do a few clicks of the AFMU and get it fixed 100% nearly instantly, or a couple clicks at a star base? What is the envisioned compelling reason for a player to do manual repairs?

 

[TheRoninX]

Why would I want to get out of my seat to fidget around with repairing something when I can do a few clicks of the AFMU and get it fixed 100% nearly instantly, or a couple clicks at a star base? What is the envisioned compelling reason for a player to do manual repairs?

At that point there is no reason to have a physical ship in the game or station or planets. We can just have a simple UI that allows you to buy/sale, simulate battles, etc.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Why would I want to get out of my seat to fidget around with repairing something when I can do a few clicks of the AFMU and get it fixed 100% nearly instantly, or a couple clicks at a star base? What is the envisioned compelling reason for a player to do manual repairs?

I suspect that a large part is immersion. I know, it has become a bit of a contentious term, but I think its not wrong here. Just like there are people asking for on-foot mining options. Why would you want to mine on-foot when you can mine tons upon tons per minute in a huge ship? Why do so many people want the option to sit down in a chair at the EDO bars? Buy a drink? The experience. To many, ED is like Firefly. The spaceship is important, but its also about being a plucky individual doing basis individual things. To make it more plausible intuitively that you are a spaceman, doing spaceman things. Like turn an allen wrench, but in space.

Its part of this topic in a sense, to take it to the bare minimum: what if there is no functional gameplay at all, and the whole purpose is to be able to walk around, sit down in some mess hall, lie down in a bed, that sort of fairly 'pointless' but still immersive stuff. Lets skip the 'would manual repairs beat AFMU' debate, and go straight to "would you be interested in 'immersion' if it didnt beat anything at all?'?

And any honest answer is the correct answer here.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

At that point there is no reason to have a physical ship in the game or station or planets. We can just have a simple UI that allows you to buy/sale, simulate battles, etc.

The point is, pretty much all of the ship interiors game play ideas that players have come up with are simply longer, more complicated ways of doing things we can already do nearly instantly. Of course there will be a few who do things the long way after the novelty has worn off, but I imagine that would be very few.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

I suspect that a large part is immersion. I know, it has become a bit of a contentious term, but I think its not wrong here. Just like there are people asking for on-foot mining options. Why would you want to mine on-foot when you can mine tons upon tons per minute in a huge ship? Why do so many people want the option to sit down in a chair at the EDO bars? Buy a drink? The experience. To many, ED is like Firefly. The spaceship is important, but its also about being a plucky individual doing basis individual things. To make it more plausible intuitively that you are a spaceman, doing spaceman things.

Its part of this topic in a sense, to take it to the bare minimum: what if there is no functional gameplay at all, and the whole purpose is to be able to walk around, sit down in some mess hall, lie down in a bed, that sort of fairly 'pointless' but still immersive stuff. Lets skip the 'would manual repairs beat AFMU' debate, and go straight to "would you be interested in 'immersion' if it didnt beat anything at all?'?

And any honest answer is the correct answer here.

That gets right at the heart of the arguments that the pro-interior players have not been able to embrace. They insist on going down the road of adding game play as a reason to justify interiors, when simple non-game play spaces for players immersion is actually the best and strongest arguement.

 

[Northpin]

The point is, pretty much all of the ship interiors game play ideas that players have come up with are simply longer, more complicated ways of doing things we can already do nearly instantly. Of course there will be a few who do things the long way after the novelty has worn off, but I imagine that would be very few.

Precisely this

As i said i would not mind to have interiors as cosmetics.
But i'm not sure i'd like to have to land and do some (more or less lengthy) minigame to repair something on my ship - when i can press a button while landed at a station or pack AFMU and repair limpets and have them do the work if i'm out in the black with no nearby repair facilities.

 

[TheRoninX]

The point is, pretty much all of the ship interiors game play ideas that players have come up with are simply longer, more complicated ways of doing things we can already do nearly instantly. Of course there will be a few who do things the long way after the novelty has worn off, but I imagine that would be very few.

And that's fine but this game is not just about you wanting to super efficiently do some gameplay loop. Because really like I said there would be no point in expanding this game beyond pre-horizon gameplay. No reason to add more than one ship since why have multiple models that do essentially the same thing. Why have engineering, which I know is it's own subject. No point in complicating the 4 main gameplay loops we have beyond simple point and click. I don't know about you but 1980 gameplay can stay dead. Lets evolve the genre.

 

[Cymoril]

An interior would be nice to have but as others have said, it wouldn't really add anything meaningful. That said, if they added an artifact library in the main cabin that could display rare artifacts from across the galaxy. That would be worth it imo. The gamers I play with go to extraordinary lengths to find rare items for achievements.

 

[Ian Skippy]

That gets right at the heart of the arguments that the pro-interior players have not been able to embrace. They insist on going down the road of adding game play as a reason to justify interiors, when simple non-game play spaces for players immersion is actually the best and strongest arguement.

In a sense it is a logical reaction to when a CM said he didnt feel strongly about it due to it being 'boring' or getting old soon. Its tempting to respond (if you do want interiors) by faux-objectively countering it ("there are tons of exciting gameplay opportunities, you are just not thinking it through!") rather than subjectively ("maybe boring to you, which is fair enough, but not to me!").

Every gameplay option I have been thinking about is, at best, complicated. Things like shipboarding and other sci-fi movie tropes become very much non-trivial very fast when you consider logout timers, instances and so on and just generally the idea of gamers acting like gamers typically do rather than following a cool script like actors do. But on the other hand I kinda liked being able to walk through the three rooms of my one ship in X:Rebirth. It served no point and took very little time, but it still added something.

Do the majority of players want 'dream interiors'? Sure. I have no doubt at all. But the interesting question is how many of us want 'interiors-light'. Braben already hinted at an internal discussion when he publicly sighed that 'gamers expect every ship to be unique' or something to that effect; implying there is a gap between what FD considers conceptually feasible and what they perceive the community to expect. Maybe they are right, maybe not. This topic may be an interesting exploration of it.