How the game was advertised clashes with its history and current iteration of the game. In that sense he is right. It also doesn't legally stand for anything as "epic" is subjective. At most you'd be due a refund. This game is not an MMO. No more than D3 is anyway. It has MMO features, but it is not as limited as they are. Those games rely on a social end-game where people play primarily to socialize (Thanks WoW). This game has different goals. Though it will take a very long time it can cater to solo, small group, and standard "mmo" players. But if they start to release content that excludes a group of players (save basics like wings) they will throw that advantage away. This game does need more "epic" content though, because it is lacking it in all areas save perhaps large scale PvP and exploring to an extent.
Should Elite Dangerous add clans/player factions in the future
- Thread starter dementia
- Start date
How the game was advertised clashes with its history and current iteration of the game. In that sense he is right. It also doesn't legally stand for anything as "epic" is subjective. At most you'd be due a refund. This game is not an MMO. No more than D3 is anyway. It has MMO features, but it is not as limited as they are. Those games rely on a social end-game where people play primarily to socialize (Thanks WoW). This game has different goals. Though it will take a very long time it can cater to solo, small group, and standard "mmo" players. But if they start to release content that excludes a group of players (save basics like wings) they will throw that advantage away. This game does need more "epic" content though, because it is lacking it in all areas save perhaps large scale PvP and exploring to an extent.
It implies a certain level of functionality. When that functionality is missing it's natural that players will ask for it.
The "players should do their research" or "this game was never advertised as having" responses are a cop out, as the game was clearly undergoing continual development - with missing features to be implemented at later points.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Implication leads to dubiety. Is there a defined list of features anywhere as to what constitutes the minimum feature set of an MMO?
Imho a short time into guilds/clans open would be only a handful of players fighting for guild territory, and the rest would have left for solo and group play.
I don't want that. At present, it's bad enough when you can be threatened by a player wing, all in top ships of course (FAS, FDL, Python and Corvette), and all wanting you to "join or die". Fortunately, they are few and far between. Having a whole guild/clan arrive, or enough to make it silly, just because the Galaxy Map showed this as the best way to your destination, is pointless.
I want to play this game my way, (as in the Elite tradition), I don't want to be forced into joining a guild/clan because it's not possible or practical to play in open without being a member of one.
I don't want that. At present, it's bad enough when you can be threatened by a player wing, all in top ships of course (FAS, FDL, Python and Corvette), and all wanting you to "join or die". Fortunately, they are few and far between. Having a whole guild/clan arrive, or enough to make it silly, just because the Galaxy Map showed this as the best way to your destination, is pointless.
I want to play this game my way, (as in the Elite tradition), I don't want to be forced into joining a guild/clan because it's not possible or practical to play in open without being a member of one.
I voted Hell No too. 'Clans' are just gangs. There will undoubtedly be a hierarchy of sorts. I find 'clans' in all games means trouble. Cliques of players bound to some notional ideal or purpose at odds with those who just play the game for their own fun. I find the whole thing rather childish and juvenile but thats only my opinion and not a statement of fact. This opinion was made from yrs of playing online MP games from Quake, BF42 etc right up to BF4 and CS:Go.
Currently we have factions and wings, which is dealt with internally within the game and relates to the game and thats fine. But Clans are an external mechanism and amount to nothing but groups of people with only their self interest at heart. Will we have to pay a tribute to those when we enter their space? Yeah right, bite me for that.
Undoubtedly should it be introduced will some people be coerced into joining? Due to their home locations or will they be forced to flee and lose their trade routes etc.
I thought we already had them of sorts. Like those miscreants who attempted to spoil Hutton and utterly failed.
Undoubtedly someone will say that Mobius is a clan. It isnt. Its a cooperative group whos only rule is that its PvE and not PvP and thats it. There are no other requirements to join and you can still wander off and do your own thing. You do not have to turn up for group practice or tournos. There are cooperative wings in Mobius too, but again no mandatory attendance is required. Its just a cooperative rather than an adversarial group, to aid each other but not at the expense of anyone else.
Gangs or cliques are an anachronism when the future should bring greater personal liberty, freedom and democracy. I was once a Mod in the late 70's early 80's. I followed an ideal, but then I began to understand the point of Quadrophenia. Make your own path, dont follow. Your 'leader' is just a bellboy. I ditched the suits and ties and did my own thing. Ive never looked back.
I think its a bad idea and an overcarry from other games. I'm not surprised people are interested in it as to be honest I believe some people are cattle and are not singularly focused on what they can do themselves. They'd follow the shoe or the goard and pee all over the juniper bush if told to.
Currently we have factions and wings, which is dealt with internally within the game and relates to the game and thats fine. But Clans are an external mechanism and amount to nothing but groups of people with only their self interest at heart. Will we have to pay a tribute to those when we enter their space? Yeah right, bite me for that.
Undoubtedly should it be introduced will some people be coerced into joining? Due to their home locations or will they be forced to flee and lose their trade routes etc.
I thought we already had them of sorts. Like those miscreants who attempted to spoil Hutton and utterly failed.
Undoubtedly someone will say that Mobius is a clan. It isnt. Its a cooperative group whos only rule is that its PvE and not PvP and thats it. There are no other requirements to join and you can still wander off and do your own thing. You do not have to turn up for group practice or tournos. There are cooperative wings in Mobius too, but again no mandatory attendance is required. Its just a cooperative rather than an adversarial group, to aid each other but not at the expense of anyone else.
Gangs or cliques are an anachronism when the future should bring greater personal liberty, freedom and democracy. I was once a Mod in the late 70's early 80's. I followed an ideal, but then I began to understand the point of Quadrophenia. Make your own path, dont follow. Your 'leader' is just a bellboy. I ditched the suits and ties and did my own thing. Ive never looked back.
I think its a bad idea and an overcarry from other games. I'm not surprised people are interested in it as to be honest I believe some people are cattle and are not singularly focused on what they can do themselves. They'd follow the shoe or the goard and pee all over the juniper bush if told to.
I think some basic ones most people would agree on for MMOs are is group only content that yields the best rewards and the ability to create guilds. I am firmly against the former. Aside from that a LFG system and friend system (something ED has) are common - basically things that encourage social interaction, the life blood of MMOs.
.
.
ED however seems to fall very short on having any systems to encourage social interaction. Exploring/bounty hunting is either the same or worse in a wing. Most people do not know of Mobius and many of them do not like PvP, so unless they go to the forums they never meet anyone. Some people say the only way people would ever want to branch out and work together is if they have too. I disagree. I think proper systems and basic incentives (more kills/hr, dangerous NPC pirates so having an escort is actually useful, etc ) and proper systems to allow players to communicate (a player round bulletin board where players could post requests for anything from materials to wing members, if no Open-PvE mode is added a better in game group searching interface where players can look for groups that meet their wants and organize by popularity for example) would suffice.
Last edited:
There's always room for all kind of playstyles.
Mechanisms can be built into the game to cater to clan/guild/fleet play without infringing on the rights of the solo or non-aligned players.
Clans can declare war on each other (I think much like Eve or whatever other MMO out there) and the game can be configured to decide if these.... gangfights (and the resultant murders to come) is legal or not. Probably dependent on the system's security level.
The game can always protect non-aligned players by implementing harsh measures like making the entire clan WANTED should even one of the clan members murder a neutral player. Yeah... how's that for protecting the innocent? Imagine the entire clan being hunted by AI police, in force, should one of their upstarts decide to bully somebody who wasn't involved in their turf war. How would the clan treat that particular member?
But ultimately, alongside getting clan-play in the ring, there must be a reason why clans exist first. I mean other than chest-thumping, colors-wearing, "pride"....
Any kind of mutual financial (it's always money, isn't it? That's why the mob exists.... ) benefits? Some kind of resource sharing interface? Money transfers? Cargo transfers? A common commodity repository? A clan bank or fund? etc etc....
Mechanisms can be built into the game to cater to clan/guild/fleet play without infringing on the rights of the solo or non-aligned players.
Clans can declare war on each other (I think much like Eve or whatever other MMO out there) and the game can be configured to decide if these.... gangfights (and the resultant murders to come) is legal or not. Probably dependent on the system's security level.
The game can always protect non-aligned players by implementing harsh measures like making the entire clan WANTED should even one of the clan members murder a neutral player. Yeah... how's that for protecting the innocent? Imagine the entire clan being hunted by AI police, in force, should one of their upstarts decide to bully somebody who wasn't involved in their turf war. How would the clan treat that particular member?
But ultimately, alongside getting clan-play in the ring, there must be a reason why clans exist first. I mean other than chest-thumping, colors-wearing, "pride"....
Any kind of mutual financial (it's always money, isn't it? That's why the mob exists.... ) benefits? Some kind of resource sharing interface? Money transfers? Cargo transfers? A common commodity repository? A clan bank or fund? etc etc....
Just want to point out that guild / players group already exist, as players back factions in an organized way.
Not adding support for this type of gameplay is silly when you sell a game as MMO and it will not prevent it from happening.
And yeah, if you start doing missions in a system with a player's backed minor faction in open, expect to be watched closely.
If you start doing missions for opposing factions, expect to get asked to get lost / murdered, Bounty on your head or not.
Not adding support for this type of gameplay is silly when you sell a game as MMO and it will not prevent it from happening.
And yeah, if you start doing missions in a system with a player's backed minor faction in open, expect to be watched closely.
If you start doing missions for opposing factions, expect to get asked to get lost / murdered, Bounty on your head or not.
Last edited:
You're over thinking it and confusing the "how" of clans with the "why".
In its purest form, players just want to play and collaborate with their mates and their mate's mates. That's the "why".
The social tools elements of the discussion is centred on that - as the game makes it extremely difficult for people to do that and there's no good reason why that shouldn't be improved.
I'd be leery of introducing any features to clans which aren't available to wings at least, if not solo players. That knocks a bunch of items off your list...
This is probably the most absurd thing I've read in along time. Do you even realize the level of intolerance your exhibiting from your misinformation?
Guilds/Clans are about bringing people together to work on a common goal. I still keep in contact with many of my Guild mates from SWG who span across the globe. Some guild can be nefarious sure, but that's not the only type of guild.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed not - however once Guild features that facilitate that kind of gameplay are introduced, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle.
Majinvash
Banned
Your opinion is based on TEAM based games. You know that the games you listed only work if you play as a team right?
I tried playing competition level CS as a solo player, it was a short lived career
Then with team work, sponsorship happened.
[video=youtube;wxDyiVCHW1o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxDyiVCHW1o[/video]
Plus you play in Mobius, why would you even care what people in Open did? ( Or really any other mode? )
Its like my previous statement. As a Car driver, I strongly feel people who ride bikes shouldn't have nice things!
Majinvash
The Voice of Open
Yes, that is the truly technical approach. It would have even been a valid one if Frontier would have chosen not to advertise it as a "Definitively" multiplayer and "epic". It still does makes sense technically because other than the obvious technical functionality, the rest is indeed subjective. In this case, from an anthropophobic (fear of other people) perspective one can definitively interpret just "existing" alongside other people (when you're lucky enough to be in the same instance that is) as a definitive multiplayer experience and an MMO.
People don't have many options now (I think EVE is for another segment of the players) but other similar titles like Star Citizen will be out this year and people who got suckered by Frontier will flock there. If this poll is representative (and I'm not saying it is, I think that there are far more who want true multiplayer) you are looking at an aprox. 52% of ED's players that will have better options elsewhere.
If I was working for Frontier I would definitively take in consideration this multiplayer issue, try to probe it better with scientific data-gathering and interpretation tools and plan for my future player retention rate so that when other titles come out players will have been comfortably settled in the game world they expect and paid for, so that it would actually make sense to stick around.
I hope I have adequately responded to your question.
As I stated. It was opinion gleaned from yrs of playing online MP games. I stated it as opinion and not fact. Its based entirely on experience. You are entitled to your own opinion. I have not seen or witnessed anything to change my opinion, in fact as the yrs pass it strengthens. What is absurd to you is reality as Ive seen it. Whats absurd to me is conversely true to you. I have no doubt there are good clans, its just Ive witnessed very few of those and the overwhelmingly vast majority have been poor. But as I said, it was opinion and not fact.
I fail to see how that exhibits intolerance. Ive tolerated them for 20yrs with no oppression from me. 'Intolerance' is perhaps an oversimplification to reinforce your point. There is also no misinformation as I stated it was opinion and not fact.
Opinion - and yes I am aware of the maxim about 'opinions' and any attribution of that maxim to this opinion is intolerance. I am sorry I disagree with you but that is what being free is all about.
I tolerate a great number of things and understand that my opinion may not be shared by some. Again more tolerance.
Edit: I also play open Vash and frankly your opinion regarding Mobius is well known and your insecurity is noted.
I fail to see how that exhibits intolerance. Ive tolerated them for 20yrs with no oppression from me. 'Intolerance' is perhaps an oversimplification to reinforce your point. There is also no misinformation as I stated it was opinion and not fact.
Opinion - and yes I am aware of the maxim about 'opinions' and any attribution of that maxim to this opinion is intolerance. I am sorry I disagree with you but that is what being free is all about.
I tolerate a great number of things and understand that my opinion may not be shared by some. Again more tolerance.
Edit: I also play open Vash and frankly your opinion regarding Mobius is well known and your insecurity is noted.
Last edited:
With 3 game mode options and a 32 player/NPC max per instance i don't see any guild having a drastic effect on much of anything except maybe powerplay (which can already happen), This isn't like EVE where there are no instances.
Of course not - other than the factors you've already outlined. But an effort to actually enable the "epic multiplayer" isn't an unreasonable ask.
I accept (and welcome) FD will eventually do things differently, but letting them know via the official forums that I feel this is a big miss in the features as they stand is surely the point of having them here.
Beyond that, kicking ideas around about how it could be done is my interest in these threads.
And if you look it from the other side, there are 48% of players that would be left with no game to play. I'm here, like a lot of players, precisely because there are no guilds. We don't want to be sheeps in a cattle. Plus, it makes perfectly sense NOT to offer exactly what every other game in the world is offering - you want to be different enough that there is a reason to play this game and not any of the others. Players that just want a game "like all the others" will eventually leave for the New Game Of The Day, so there is no point in chasing them.
Last edited:
IF guilds ever gets implemented, the 48% would still have a game to play. Some would probably leave...but all of them? I dont think so at all.
That's the problem. "People" != player base.
The majority of the users on this board are "old school" gamers (as a different poll shows). That's why we can't have nice things!