Should the Corvette get a better jump range?

[Ziggy Stardust]

I agree that more alternatives [...] like they would be more tedious.

That's one of the many thoughtful and balanced posts I've read in quite some time here.

My bickering and mocking feels quite churlish and peevish now compared to that, so thanks a lot! [mad]

edit: come to think of it, there are quite some thoughtful and balanced posts in this place which I'm completely dismissing. So I've changed "one of the most" into "one of the many".

 

[tachyondecay]

I do think it is unfair to those who DO use the Asp Explorer and who came in after Horizons because they hadn't heard of Elite Dangerous until then or came in a week before horizons and didn't know that Elite would have DLC's.

Honestly, if people start flipping tables over a paint job on a virtual spaceship, I'm going to just sit back and let the world burn.

It's a simple but nice little "thank you" to people for supporting Frontier and the development of Horizons. And it's entirely cosmetic (unless it's red with gold flames, in which case SCIENCE says the ship must go faster). I'm sympathetic to people who complain about not being able to purchase the Cobra Mk IV, but a simple paint job? Come on. There are plenty of other paint jobs one can get! And I'm sure there could be other exclusive paint jobs offered up in the future for people who are current supporters of the game. Exclusive perks that have no actual benefit in-game are a nice way for players to show their long-time support or participation in a particular moment of the game's history without giving them an unfair advantage.

Note that I only bought Elite Dangerous in December and Horizons last month, so I am saying this as one of those people who "missed out." I'm not bitter.

 

[TuxedoSteve]

I agree that more alternatives would be nice! However, I disagree that shrinking the spread on jump ranges would be a good idea. Why are we trying to make the ships more similar?

The fundamental disagreement here seems to be about what purpose jump ranges serve. Those generally against mucking with the jump ranges (I'm not necessarily one of them, but I'm sympathetic to their arguments) view jump range as a limitation and mechanic as built-in to the gameplay as limitations on weapons' rates of fire, ammo, the size and number of module compartments on a ship, etc. Those in favour of changing the jump ranges on the Corvette, or all ships, view jump ranges, and jumping itself, as an unnecessary or distasteful part of the gameplay because of its repetitive, tedious nature.

I totally get why people find jumping tedious. What baffles me is why people think the solution to this tedium is simply to increase jump ranges. Surely if one doesn't like jumping, one would prefer to abandon this mechanic altogether? Why not campaign for "jump gates" or some other mechanic that lets you cross vast distances instantaneously, no jump range needed? Increasing jump ranges seems like a band-aid solution that doesn't address the underlying issue all that well.

Similarly, I'm sympathetic to the idea that one only has a few hours (if that) a day to play the game and doesn't want to spend all that time jumping. I am in the same boat, time-wise. Again, though, I simply view this as the way the game works: I have to plan my journeys, and the longer they are, the more carefully I have to plan them. I take pride in what I've learned as I make more journeys. I get that an hour spent jumping before you have to shut off your game and go to bed might seem dull. But is it any more dull than spending an hour or more on the surface of a planet collecting synthesis materials? Should we make synthesis materials more abundant to combat that? Is it any more dull than having to spend upwards of ten minutes sometimes travelling in supercruise between the drop-out point and a station? Should we change the way jumping works so we can come out right next to the station of our choice?

For me at least it's not that I find jumping completely tedious. I like the mechanic, I just find it gets tedious when you're trying to go a short distance in the bubble but are forced to preform a much higher number of jumps than a ship with, say, only 4 ly more range would have to.

 

[Lord Celestine]

Honestly, if people start flipping tables over a paint job on a virtual spaceship, I'm going to just sit back and let the world burn.

It's a simple but nice little "thank you" to people for supporting Frontier and the development of Horizons. And it's entirely cosmetic (unless it's red with gold flames, in which case SCIENCE says the ship must go faster). I'm sympathetic to people who complain about not being able to purchase the Cobra Mk IV, but a simple paint job? Come on. There are plenty of other paint jobs one can get! And I'm sure there could be other exclusive paint jobs offered up in the future for people who are current supporters of the game. Exclusive perks that have no actual benefit in-game are a nice way for players to show their long-time support or participation in a particular moment of the game's history without giving them an unfair advantage.

Note that I only bought Elite Dangerous in December and Horizons last month, so I am saying this as one of those people who "missed out." I'm not bitter.

Never said I was bitter, just that I don't think something should be accessible to 'certain players' I don't even like the Asp Explorer, it's cockpit is to... exposed and... open. It's a fine exploration vessel don't get me wrong, but with the Diamondback I at least have a solid floor to stand on. I also wouldn't like a gold paint job either. If I had to go for any paint job on the Asp I'd say the White Pharaoh looks pretty appealing.

 

[Kristov]

So many people getting their panties in a twist jesus christ.

The Corvette even says in it's description 'Long Distance Deployments' - It wouldn't hurt if there was a 50% boost across the board. The only thing it would really affect is the 65k Ly club but they will just extend it further.

2 hours to get from the 2 farthest points in the bubble in a Corvette fully combat loaded, I'm thinking your long distance deployment is not only covered, but it's awfully damned FAST on top of that.

Well i am sorry if our lives do not revolve around elite. Many of us have jobs and families. If I have 90 minutes to enjoy the game when i get home today and have to spend 30 minutes getting to the combat area and another 30 to return to my home base... Not much time left for gameplay

Well, isn't that just a pity, that your life doesn't revolve around the game, so you figure FD should make the game revolve around your life? Funny, my life doesn't revolve around the game either, matter of fact, in the last 3 weeks, I've logged a total of 2 hours total time. ANOTHER funny thing, I'm not here whining that FD needs to do something to make the game cater to the fact that for the next 6 months I won't have much free time to play the game. That would be an entitled whiny demand to me. You seem to think it's not only appropriate but that everyone else should agree with you and FD should cater to you. Pity that...life is going to full of disappointments for you, just saying...tanstaafl.

To be fair I do get what DragoonKnight is getting at, I think David B said that he realised that a lot of cmdr's don't get to see a lot of the game that is out there.

Actually, what DragoonKnight IS is why David made that comment. He's in too much of a hurry to actually see the game, so he doesn't see all the stuff that's there, like so many others, and then they complain that there's no content, there's nothing to do, they're bored, FD sucks, they don't know how to do anything right.

2 hours to get from the 2 farthest points in the bubble in a Corvette, not much less time for an Asp Explorer or Anaconda with an exploration setup to do that, but neither of them are combat loaded either, they actually give up that ability to make that same distance a bit faster. And that's not fast enough for DragoonKnight and others like him, people who repeatedly demand that FD redo the game to cater to them, it's too slow, it's too boring to have to travel from here to there, it takes SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much time! And they also complain that there's no content, there's nothing to do, it's boring, this game is a mile wide and an inch deep! All while they try to get from here to there as quickly as possible and ignore everything not only in between BUT at each end point.

If FD let them travel from here to there in a single jump, guess what would happen next? Go on, try and guess....anyone....well, not anyone, some of you already know and it's been said before, we're already seeing it aren't we, mile wide, inch deep...take away the travel time and it'll go to inch wide, no depth at all. When you hike the Appalachian trail, you know it's going to take you a while to get from one end to the other, it is what it is. These folks, they'd be demanding that they get to use SUVs and campers to hike the trail, takes too long otherwise, there's nothing to do, it's boring, it's stupid, who's the idiot who came up with this trail?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

2 hours to get from the 2 farthest points in the bubble in a Corvette fully combat loaded, …

Jump range is not always about getting to somewhere fast.

Sometimes it's about getting to a system at all or not making a 11 jumps trip to get to a system that is 12.5 ly away from the start system.
The Corvette simply has a very short jump range. In my opinion the jump range is too short. Some systems in the bubble are not reachable with the Corvette in full combat outfit - it's worse if the Corvette is used as a supply ship (trader).

 

[EUS]

As someone who has more than once spent my nightly allotment of game time simply getting from my home base to Robigo, then having to call it a night, and picking it up the next night, I'm OK with the limited jump ranges of some ships.

 

[Zeta Legion]

the thing is... FSD mechanics don't work like that, differently to speed or shields. jumprange depends on mass and FSD class and quality.

so, there is no auch thing as "push combat ships jumprange 4-5 ly". there is either " make them more lightweight" or "give them a FSD one class higher".

a FDL could jump 41 ly with a class 5 fsd, i hope nobody would want that.

while a corvette could jump 30 ly stripped down with a class 6 FSD... that wouldn't be too bad in my opinion.

Why not let the FDL jump 41 ly? It'd be a classier vessel to explore with instead of the utilitarian Asp/Anaconda

The Corvette and FDL (and for that matter the T9) have significantly more mass than their physical size would suggest compared to other ships in their respective categories (in this case, primarily the Anaconda for the Corvette) which unfairly punishes these ships for no good reason. Presumably that mass is there to artificially inflate need for larger, more expensive and more power-hungry thrusters and shields. It's not like they get a commensurate increase in hull strength out of the bargain. Of course, shaving mass would also have an impact on engine performance.

Maybe what is needed is a rebalance of the FSD upgrades past C4, with the big ships ending up with C7 or C8 like most of their other parts. Either modify the mass of the ships themselves (say, -120 mass for now needing a much more massive FSD) or make the FSD itself follow a different mass class and power draw curve, so that C8 is functionally identical to C6. This gives ships like the FDL that are otherwise stranded in FSD mass class no-mans-land an appropriately sized module without overdoing it and makes room for developing additional ships in this range.

 

[Maro-Val]

And what's more, they use silly tactics like arguments to support their position. And then those who are asking for a buff find themselves unable to counter those arguments so they make silly ad hominem lists so they don't have to do that difficult discussion stuff

Proof ignorance is bliss.

(Sorry for posting that, in the same generalizing terms which I usually avoid, but I could not resist)

Nice trap you set up there with your post. I suppose, from your point of view, you are too smart to discuss my list just because it is silly, again from your point of view.

Ignorance is bliss indeed. T6.

 

[Maro-Val]

A lot of people don't have Corvettes yet, it like the Cutter is the dream of many, but not everyone will get a chance to hear her purr. I am not able to get it currently not even if I had the money and the rank. I am going to the Formidine Rift, and I am NOT coming back until whatever is out there is found. Perhaps if I am lucky I will be the second one to bear witness to it.

I can not help but feel that your post includes a bit of snobbery, while I do understand that it might be annoying to hear people talking about things like this you could have just avoided the thread and not partook in it. What affects one commander, will inevitably effect us all. We might not all have the Corvette, but we do all play the game and so logically we would have an opinion on what is in it. Like the Gold skin that is available to the Asp Explorer for those who got horizons before it became a DLC. Do I use the Asp Explorer? No I use the Diamondback Explorer (it's already gold), but I do think it is unfair to those who DO use the Asp Explorer and who came in after Horizons because they hadn't heard of Elite Dangerous until then or came in a week before horizons and didn't know that Elite would have DLC's.

You are very right in everything my friend and if my post sounded snobbery then i do apologize but that was not my intention. Take my post from its funny side. The only thing that makes me sad is that many people are not like you reasonable. They dont want other people to have 4 more LY of jump range on a ship even if it clearly doesnt affect their gameplay in any way.

 

[Maro-Val]

I agree that more alternatives would be nice! However, I disagree that shrinking the spread on jump ranges would be a good idea. Why are we trying to make the ships more similar?

The fundamental disagreement here seems to be about what purpose jump ranges serve. Those generally against mucking with the jump ranges (I'm not necessarily one of them, but I'm sympathetic to their arguments) view jump range as a limitation and mechanic as built-in to the gameplay as limitations on weapons' rates of fire, ammo, the size and number of module compartments on a ship, etc. Those in favour of changing the jump ranges on the Corvette, or all ships, view jump ranges, and jumping itself, as an unnecessary or distasteful part of the gameplay because of its repetitive, tedious nature.

I totally get why people find jumping tedious. What baffles me is why people think the solution to this tedium is simply to increase jump ranges. Surely if one doesn't like jumping, one would prefer to abandon this mechanic altogether? Why not campaign for "jump gates" or some other mechanic that lets you cross vast distances instantaneously, no jump range needed? Increasing jump ranges seems like a band-aid solution that doesn't address the underlying issue all that well.

Similarly, I'm sympathetic to the idea that one only has a few hours (if that) a day to play the game and doesn't want to spend all that time jumping. I am in the same boat, time-wise. Again, though, I simply view this as the way the game works: I have to plan my journeys, and the longer they are, the more carefully I have to plan them. I take pride in what I've learned as I make more journeys. I get that an hour spent jumping before you have to shut off your game and go to bed might seem dull. But is it any more dull than spending an hour or more on the surface of a planet collecting synthesis materials? Should we make synthesis materials more abundant to combat that? Is it any more dull than having to spend upwards of ten minutes sometimes travelling in supercruise between the drop-out point and a station? Should we change the way jumping works so we can come out right next to the station of our choice?

Note that I'm not being sarcastic when I ask these questions; I'm not saying making any of those above changes is tantamount to the satirical "instant win" button suggested earlier in this thread. Those are serious questions; I'm sure most if not all of those changes have been proposed on these forums at least once. And that's my point: Frontier could certainly change the game to remove any or all of the mechanics that people think are "tedious." But how do we decide which ones should be changed, if any? And what purpose does that really serve?

I'm not saying finding jumping tedious is wrong. But if one finds jumping tedious, there are just so many other things in Elite that seem like they would be more tedious.

Wow. One of the best posts i have seen. You have many good points there but just a few words because i m typing from the phone. Jump gates is an excellent idea and have been mentioned before along with many other great ideas about making our life easier in moving around the bubble because thats the real problem many people have and many other cannot understand. It has an impact on peoples real life time and apart from that it gets really boring after some point to realize that a significant amount of your play time is spent on jumping. No one wants a teleport button. People just want to reduce time spent on boring and repeating stuff, and fill that time with quality in game activities.

 

[Draxxen]

So how about we get the option to use internal compartment slot(s) for an auxiliary FSD to help boost the jumprange? With added fuel consumption of course. Then we could further specialize our ships to our personal tastes.

 

[tawittle]

the corvette is easier to jump in than a FDL. you can afford to give up a class 5 internal for a fuel scoop and you have room for a discovery scanner too for easy money/exploration rank/influence dump. But really both ships should have their jump range buffed.

I think all ships should just have 3-10 ly added to their range tho, because it is way too tedious to jump around and its just inconveniencing everyone for no good reason.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…Jump gates is an excellent idea …

Jump gates are a (very) bad idea in a game that is an open world PvP (enabled) game with a PvE balancing (in my opinion).

Spawn point camping with over powered combat ships against eggshell trading ships. The perfect receipt for utter disaster. The constant stream of nerfs, adjustments and restrictions will make jumping 20-40 times to reach most important places like something very, very desirable.

 

[Zeta Legion]

Jump gates are a (very) bad idea in a game that is an open world PvP (enabled) game with a PvE balancing (in my opinion).

Spawn point camping with over powered combat ships against eggshell trading ships. The perfect receipt for utter disaster. The constant stream of nerfs, adjustments and restrictions will make jumping 20-40 times to reach most important places like something very, very desirable.

Only argument I could get behind for jump gates would be for very distant systems far beyond the bubble.

 

[jmp470]

I cannot believe people are still defending the stupid notion that ships must have different jump ranges for balance... The whole idea that FSD's need to be different size is absolutely ridiculous too. Even this page indicates that: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Frame_Shift_Drive

The FSD should be class A, B, C, or D only. The drive weight and dimensions should not change at all. However, the fuel requirement, as stated on the page is what dictates jump distance. Aka, this is where SC has a better design.

What should dictate the jump distance is the amount of fuel you can supply to the FSD, taken directly from the Wiki page: Hyperspace jumps rely on quantum mechanics, as the destination of any given jump must be known before the jump is made, and the amount of energy needed to complete the jump is discrete.

So in reality. The actual FSD should only come in 1 size and the fuel delivery mechanism should be in different sizes, based on the ships size and hull mass weight requirements. Aka, a 250T ship should require 5T of fuel for a jump, while a Cutter at over 1000T should require 20T per same jump.

What would set the ships apart would be the size of the fuel tanks. Thus, the 1000T Cutter should be almost all fuel, aka.... how ships in KSP, and space engineers are (while try to be more realistic).


On this same concept, why in the heck did FD design the Fuel scoop... Who the heck buys a Car, Plane, boat or motorcycle that needs an additional purchase to resupply it? We figured this out pretty much the same time as we invented the gas engine!!!! Every ship should have a way to refuel it built in... fuel scooping is akin to going to the local gas station.... sun (fuel pump) fuel scoop (hose from said pump to car receptacle) fuel tank (same thing). So why on earth did you make a fuel scoop ED????

 

[Lord Celestine]

I cannot believe people are still defending the stupid notion that ships must have different jump ranges for balance... The whole idea that FSD's need to be different size is absolutely ridiculous too. Even this page indicates that: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Frame_Shift_Drive

The FSD should be class A, B, C, or D only. The drive weight and dimensions should not change at all. However, the fuel requirement, as stated on the page is what dictates jump distance. Aka, this is where SC has a better design.

What should dictate the jump distance is the amount of fuel you can supply to the FSD, taken directly from the Wiki page: Hyperspace jumps rely on quantum mechanics, as the destination of any given jump must be known before the jump is made, and the amount of energy needed to complete the jump is discrete.

So in reality. The actual FSD should only come in 1 size and the fuel delivery mechanism should be in different sizes, based on the ships size and hull mass weight requirements. Aka, a 250T ship should require 5T of fuel for a jump, while a Cutter at over 1000T should require 20T per same jump.

What would set the ships apart would be the size of the fuel tanks. Thus, the 1000T Cutter should be almost all fuel, aka.... how ships in KSP, and space engineers are (while try to be more realistic).


On this same concept, why in the heck did FD design the Fuel scoop... Who the heck buys a Car, Plane, boat or motorcycle that needs an additional purchase to resupply it? We figured this out pretty much the same time as we invented the gas engine!!!! Every ship should have a way to refuel it built in... fuel scooping is akin to going to the local gas station.... sun (fuel pump) fuel scoop (hose from said pump to car receptacle) fuel tank (same thing). So why on earth did you make a fuel scoop ED????

We add additional purchases that we made on our vehicle EVERY TIME WE FUEL UP AT THE GAS STATION. Say you spend 167 hard earned underpaid USD on gas per month (apparently what the average american pays) now say you do that for 12 months, you started driving when you were 16 and stopped driving once you turned 76. That's 120,000$ you will spend in gas. Your vehicle was probably about 4,000-10,000$

Now a Corvette costs about 182,000,000 Cr right off the line no upgrades no nothing. The 7E Fuel scoop can refuel the entire 32 Ton tank in 59 Seconds, free of charge every use just that one initial payment of 342,000 Cr.

say you're like me and bought your car for 1,200$ and put an extra 1,500$ into repairng it. My pickup cost me then 2,700$. If I paid 167$ a month in gas (which I don't because I have a very lightweight pickup) but if I used the calculations from above the amount of fuel would be 4500% more than the cost of my truck. While the 7E Fuel scoop costs 0.0019% of the Corvette. And DO NOT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON REPAIRS. The AFM can repair your own Vessel and you can find the resources necessary to replenish your AFM on pretty much any planet ever for free. Unless you damage the AFM unit itself, the powerplant, or your ship's hull you're golden. Can you say that repairing a Truck is so simple? And let us not even go into the life expectancy of a car vs a space fairing vessel.

And yet here you are complaining that you need to buy a fuel scoop once per ship, for 342,000 Cr which giving the time they've had for inflation is probably about 120,000 USD, if this is correct, and 1 ton of imperial slaves can be bought for 16,500 Cr which is about 12 people which is 1375 Cr per slave divided by 3 means that you can literally buy people in the future for 500 USD. If Cr translates to 1 USD then it's 1375 Cr per person and if it's the British Pound then it's about 2,000 USD.

But say you want to use that 167$ a month on gas for the 4,000$ car you bought, 167 is about 4% of 4,000 the insurance cost of a out of the yard Corvette is 9,400,000 Cr. Therefore the cost to refuel 32T worth of star juice would be about 8,000,000 Cr per refuel.

The system Elite Dangerous has now is responsible jumping, do you know how many people at the start of the game would run out of fuel because they didn't know that the one jump (the longest) would drain their fuel tank completely? Would I want it, no it would be way to easy to jump the longest jump and find myself sitting out in the middle of nowhere because I miscalculated my route. So the short answer is, ED gave us Fuel Scoops to make space travel possible and you should be thankful that they did.

 

[jmp470]

We add additional purchases that we made on our vehicle EVERY TIME WE FUEL UP AT THE GAS STATION. Say you spend 167 hard earned underpaid USD on gas per month (apparently what the average american pays) now say you do that for 12 months, you started driving when you were 16 and stopped driving once you turned 76. That's 120,000$ you will spend in gas. Your vehicle was probably about 4,000-10,000$

Now a Corvette costs about 182,000,000 Cr right off the line no upgrades no nothing. The 7E Fuel scoop can refuel the entire 32 Ton tank in 59 Seconds, free of charge every use just that one initial payment of 342,000 Cr.

say you're like me and bought your car for 1,200$ and put an extra 1,500$ into repairng it. My pickup cost me then 2,700$. If I paid 167$ a month in gas (which I don't because I have a very lightweight pickup) but if I used the calculations from above the amount of fuel would be 4500% more than the cost of my truck. While the 7E Fuel scoop costs 0.0019% of the Corvette. And DO NOT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON REPAIRS. The AFM can repair your own Vessel and you can find the resources necessary to replenish your AFM on pretty much any planet ever for free. Unless you damage the AFM unit itself, the powerplant, or your ship's hull you're golden. Can you say that repairing a Truck is so simple? And let us not even go into the life expectancy of a car vs a space fairing vessel.

And yet here you are complaining that you need to buy a fuel scoop once per ship, for 342,000 Cr which giving the time they've had for inflation is probably about 120,000 USD, if this is correct, and 1 ton of imperial slaves can be bought for 16,500 Cr which is about 12 people which is 1375 Cr per slave divided by 3 means that you can literally buy people in the future for 500 USD. If Cr translates to 1 USD then it's 1375 Cr per person and if it's the British Pound then it's about 2,000 USD.

no your missing the point I made. While I'm not like you. Let me use my example. My house is 100% solar power (say nuclear powered for my space ship, since it is our house) and I own a Tesla that runs on electricity . I can either charge at home with the 220 charger I have for my house (which I bought when I bought the car, so it is 1 bill. Just like the fuel scoop should be installed at time of purchase). Or I can pay to fill up while I'm out ( just like an outpost or station).

Either way, my ability to gas or electricity to my fuel tank or battery is designed into the car. The fuel use and type is up to the user!

As for repairs, I would like to see them become more of an issue. Each jump should cause wear and tear! I also like the fact that we can repair most parts ourselves with the AFM. But, I think our ships should have a use meter built in and should require Depot level maintenance every so often.

 

[Lord Celestine]

no your missing the point I made. While I'm not like you. Let me use my example. My house is 100% solar power (say nuclear powered for my space ship, since it is our house) and I own a Tesla that runs on electricity . I can either charge at home with the 220 charger I have for my house (which I bought when I bought the car, so it is 1 bill. Just like the fuel scoop should be installed at time of purchase). Or I can pay to fill up while I'm out ( just like an outpost or station).

Either way, my ability to gas or electricity to my fuel tank or battery is designed into the car. The fuel use and type is up to the user!

As for repairs, I would like to see them become more of an issue. Each jump should cause wear and tear! I also like the fact that we can repair most parts ourselves with the AFM. But, I think our ships should have a use meter built in and should require Depot level maintenance every so often.

The ability to refuel any ship in Elite Dangerous is also built in, it's called going to the station and buying fuel, tell me, how many cars do you know that can refuel themselves off the power of the sun? Now you have your little house with your little solar panels that is your 'station' that isn't the CAR refueling itself.

 

[DragoonKnight]

15 ly isn't that bad for a combat fitted ship.

Plus, if you really have a long way to go, you can shed weight and re-arm near your destination (might take a little bit to find all the pieces again, but they are everywhere).

Basically, it is going to take twice as long to get anywhere as opposed to an exploration fitted ship and about 2/3 longer than a multi-role fit. That ain't bad in my book.

I regularly just swap out one of the SCBs on my FDL for a Fuel Scoop and I'll be just about anywhere in populated space before too long.

EDIT: but, I guess that all comes with perspective. I use travel time as music discovery time, so it always goes by quickly for me. Sometimes, I even for get to jump and just SC into nothingness until I get a break in song and remember I need to hit "J"

15 LY wouldn't be bad, except for one small problem - We dont have 15 LY on our vettes and FDLs. That is all we are asking for.
Instead we get half the people here arguing about cars, houses, and exaggerating to make it sound like we want a 40 LY combat ship.