Rest assured the Fuel Rats are a very professionnal bunch and are absolutely never in the whole ever distracted by anyth... Is that a Snicker out of your rear pocket ?
Should the Fuel Rats be in the Bubble 2.0 ?
- Thread starter Kerenn
- Start date
Rest assured the Fuel Rats are a very professionnal bunch and are absolutely never in the whole ever distracted by anyth... Is that a Snicker out of your rear pocket ?
I like Kerenn's point about being rats from when the Go call comes until the end of db+pw 
. (Also from when the hat goes on until it comes off? Though leaving dispatch and ratty rats aside, I'm not sure techrats ever clock off).
We've already got some people who answer ratsignals out near Jaques, and as long as there's something to do there, we probably always will.
I am ambivalent on the Faction front, neither for or against. Having a ratty tag on one of the refuelling outposts sounds quite appropriate, but I'd be very wary of anything that smacked of favouritism - there have been enough things that have rightly or wrongly had people getting that vibe recently and shoutiness that we'd not wanna be a part of, it's a distraction from the important things in life - Fuel, Snickers and not saying the Q word
. (Also from when the hat goes on until it comes off? Though leaving dispatch and ratty rats aside, I'm not sure techrats ever clock off).We've already got some people who answer ratsignals out near Jaques, and as long as there's something to do there, we probably always will
.I am ambivalent on the Faction front, neither for or against. Having a ratty tag on one of the refuelling outposts sounds quite appropriate, but I'd be very wary of anything that smacked of favouritism - there have been enough things that have rightly or wrongly had people getting that vibe recently and shoutiness that we'd not wanna be a part of, it's a distraction from the important things in life - Fuel, Snickers and not saying the Q word
Last edited:
From my personal game play perspective - don't care whether Fuel Rats have a faction in Jaques or anywhere else. So voted yes since not caring sides more with allowing yes than a hard no.
That said - while I used to be long time admirer of the fuel rats, and am sure they think they are acting in good faith for all players, have becomes fairly ambivalent to slightly negative view of their org ever since I started reading back in 1.5 to current that the Fuel Rats consistently lobby FD to prevent, restrict or make them change their initial designs whenever any feature would make players lives easier re: fuel, range, refueling, etc without the fuel rats.
Basically, they lobby to prevent any change in game that threatens their existence even if it would provide self help opportunity for commanders vs having to rely on fuel rats.
Google back to 1.5 and major updates after that. Fuel Rats have lobbied and in some cases gotten changed FD proposed features that would have put more control re: lack of fuel or refueling (or rescue AI) back in hands of solo commanders.
So on one hand - as a selfish lobby, this makes perfect and total sense. Any lobby group does that. But pretending the Fuel Rats is not a self interested lobby is naïve - so yea, I support their desire for a faction because they are just that - a player faction, not a benevolent society for all.
That said - while I used to be long time admirer of the fuel rats, and am sure they think they are acting in good faith for all players, have becomes fairly ambivalent to slightly negative view of their org ever since I started reading back in 1.5 to current that the Fuel Rats consistently lobby FD to prevent, restrict or make them change their initial designs whenever any feature would make players lives easier re: fuel, range, refueling, etc without the fuel rats.
Basically, they lobby to prevent any change in game that threatens their existence even if it would provide self help opportunity for commanders vs having to rely on fuel rats.
Google back to 1.5 and major updates after that. Fuel Rats have lobbied and in some cases gotten changed FD proposed features that would have put more control re: lack of fuel or refueling (or rescue AI) back in hands of solo commanders.
So on one hand - as a selfish lobby, this makes perfect and total sense. Any lobby group does that. But pretending the Fuel Rats is not a self interested lobby is naïve - so yea, I support their desire for a faction because they are just that - a player faction, not a benevolent society for all.
Please what? Oo
I can assure you that the Fuel Rats Mischief certainly didn't lobby to prevent any changes to current and past mechanisms. I can't speak for single rats, but if that should be the case they haven't had the support of the Fuel Rats Mischief at any point.
May I ask where you've heard those accusations?
Last edited:
Rats are loungeists, not lobbyists.
What.
Are you insane?
I have never heard of anyone in the fuel rats complaining about ships having too much fuel capacity, range, or refueling ability. Show me one fuel rat who's lobbied against any of those things. Or complained that players could refuel themselves too easily or against any quality of life changes. Solo commanders? You're complaining that fuel rats operate in open only and not in your solo game instance? That's your problem?
By the way, if you're allied with a nearby AI faction, they will send a GSAR Rescue ship to refuel you. They "lobbied", as in made the skins the for rescue ships and suggested that AIs send rescue ships to people who drop out of supercruise and are too low on fuel to jump to an other system if they're within an allied AI faction's sphere of influence.
So there you go, you got your "fuel rats" in your solo gameplay already. You want an in game (solo or open) ability to remotely contact npc factions as if you had IRC or websites? Hey, I'd like that too.
Last edited:
That, my friend, is a load of tripe that you should back with some more firm sources than a rant. There was squeaking from the Mischief when they thought that the rescue NPCs would ALWAYS come to the rescue, no matter where you were, but that was quickly allayed when the true purpose of the NPCs and their scope was defined.
I'll not word this as diplomatically as Becks does, since the person making the accusations is you, and I sincerely hope you can come up with a better foundation than "Google it" as basis for them.
As a couple of other old-rats have mentioned...I am not sure what having a faction out at Jaques has to do with delivering fuel anywhere in the galaxy. Having another location for the faction shouldn't make a bit of difference to whether someone gets fuel or how long it will take.
This is possibly the best thing I have read on the forum today...maybe all week
Watch out, there may be a Rat on your ship siphoning your fuel as I type...
This is possibly the best thing I have read on the forum today...maybe all week
Watch out, there may be a Rat on your ship siphoning your fuel as I type...
This is possibly the best thing I have read on the forum today...maybe all week
Watch out, there may be a Rat on your ship siphoning your fuel as I type...
Like this?
This is mayhaps the wrong venue, but I think that the issue presents an opportunity.
Factions belong to the BGS. The Fuel Rats properly should not be a faction.
The Fuel Rats, the First Great Expedition, various others, should be organizations. They should be outside of the grind of the BGS and should be functions that provide services or lore related functions.
What could be done here is to create a branch of missions, etc for groups that do not impact the BGS. The vast majority of our society is not trying to take over, they are pursuing their goals and agendas; eg, making money, providing services, doing research, etc.
You'll never "control" or "own" the system, but you'll never be at risk of being evicted, either.
Factions belong to the BGS. The Fuel Rats properly should not be a faction.
The Fuel Rats, the First Great Expedition, various others, should be organizations. They should be outside of the grind of the BGS and should be functions that provide services or lore related functions.
What could be done here is to create a branch of missions, etc for groups that do not impact the BGS. The vast majority of our society is not trying to take over, they are pursuing their goals and agendas; eg, making money, providing services, doing research, etc.
You'll never "control" or "own" the system, but you'll never be at risk of being evicted, either.
Last edited:
Some phrased more nicely than others, but lumped them all for single reply.
First - to the rant allegation - since it was concise, no hostile words, profanity, or any allegation other than exactly stated --> fuel rats are a faction, so I'm fine if they get a minor faction in Jaques, and they like any other player faction are a lobby.
Disagree, sure. Go to the straw man clutch some (not all, some) people do who can't retort with actual debate and write off as a rant when no key definitions of a 'rant' exist in that post? Pretty self obvious to the two sides that read it - and no debate will change either mind, so no point replying on this accusation further.
Re: the request for examples - given the number of updates since 1.5 (and never said they lobbied every update, just said google them re: this issue starting with 1.5 as that is one I remember first noticing), and not all of course had fuel related issues - I'll start with 1.5
Again like the rant camp v not, you either are so set in the divinity of the fuel rats that no amount of examples will help, or you'll do exactly what I said - google it and determine for yourself based on that pointer.
Let's start with 1.5 - FD made it all the way into announcements and the actual 1.5 beta --> of rescue AI.
"Small chance of spawning rescuer AI when player runs out of fuel in supercruise if in sufficiently populated system, not an anarchy, if player is friendly with controlling faction. Spawned AI acts like a hunter passive, so it will approach the player and then drop out, waiting for the player to follow"
I do not say all, most, some, etc - merely what I said; members of FR successfully lobbied FD to change this and it was pulled; hence no auto rescue AI in populated systems (even if only a percentile RNG chance).
Since then, another example is Horizons and SRV refueling (via synthesis only and not aboard ship). The fuel rats lobbied for synthesis only so they could come to rescue of SRVs stranded without fuel - a laudable goal as I said also in my original post; never did I say they were a Dr. Evil org or anything like that. Simply that long term admiration had changed to simply neutral to 'slightly negative' was my quote due to self interested lobbying which prevented in at least these two occasions the emergence of abilities that would require less reliance on the fuel rats.
In terms of service - what they provide is great, if you are stranded and don't mind the community approach to solve your problems. In terms of self help, while I'd rate it as minor (hence only the 'slightly negative' view and not what it appears some respondents are trying to portray as some bitter enemy of the fuel rats), I would have liked chance for AI rescue in populated systems and self refueling of SRVs aboard ship.
A big deal it didn't make it, not at all. Enough to turn complete admiration into balanced view of fuel rats as simply another player lobby that looks out for their own natural self interest? Yes.
That is all. Reading more into it than what I plainly stated is more an indication of your own biased views rather than simple statements of fact.
I'm left with /shrug - like in any faction, real life or fiction, all members or even most don't have to espouse some universal plank of that faction to make change happen (good or bad).
You do know that this is actually a real thing that exists in game, right? Or are you just assuming that it got removed because it's never happened to you?
And how exactly are the Fuel Rats supposed to refuel SRVs when the only tool that exists to refuel is a Fuel Transfer Limpet, which can't refuel anything on a planet's surface?
Last edited:
What exactly did you google? If I google 'Fuel Rats Lobbyism' there's nothing coming up which supports your statement.
Please provide either a understandable way to retrace your steps to find these 'Lobby Rats' or sources which point us to the relevant threads/posts.
Beautiful!
Hmm i think I agree with this. I'm not to keen on having a future scandal where the Fuel Rats (PMF) was kicked out of Jaques by BGS operators. It just doesn't make any sense to open yourself to that unless the PMF is given a permanent spot.
What exactly did you google? If I google 'Fuel Rats Lobbyism' there's nothing coming up which supports your statement.
Please provide either a understandable way to retrace your steps to find these 'Lobby Rats' or sources which point us to the relevant threads/posts.
Lobby Rats! Make it happen! They'll lobby for your player minor faction if you send the lobby signal.
We have lobbyist. You don't. Any Questions?
Lol, I wish Fuel Rats had that kind of influence with FDev
I mean if it were true the new route-plotter changes wouldn't come in as you can (in 2.2) plot via only scoopable stars.
Also if it were true we'd have SRV to SRV refuelling which doesn't exist in game.
Tl: Dr without a source I find it impossible to believe that FR have that kind of influence or have even done such a thing
I mean if it were true the new route-plotter changes wouldn't come in as you can (in 2.2) plot via only scoopable stars.
Also if it were true we'd have SRV to SRV refuelling which doesn't exist in game.
Tl: Dr without a source I find it impossible to believe that FR have that kind of influence or have even done such a thing
Last edited:
1 - Will repeat the google line; apparently you're in the camp of FR can do no wrong, even by individual members that lobby for something that does not represent all of them.
FR lobbied against AI self rescue when 1.5 beta was in play. That the feature made it regardless of the lobbying against it doesn't mean in that instance the FRs acted as a player faction, looking out for their self interest which as I've repeatedly stated makes perfect sense.
2- Whether it made it into that form in game, again the lobbying was for the intent to not allow self refueling aboard ship because the intent was for FRs to drop synthesis mats via SRV to SRV scooping. Whether this works, changed, or never made it is immaterial that the makes-sense-acts-like-lobbying player faction happened.
You seem pigeon holed into portraying this as me stating fuel rats are evil. They are not, and did not say or imply that. Back to my own quote again - starting with 1.5, the lobbying done changed my view from 100% admiration to neutral or 'slightly negative'. That's it. With the logical conclusion then since they are in my mind de facto player faction, I voted for and stated in original reply that yes - they do deserve a minor faction in Jaques.
I googled, found the patch notes:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...es/page6?p=3090994&highlight=rats#post3090994
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...s/page11?p=3093908&highlight=rats#post3093908
Those the only post mentioning "Rats" on the whole thread and neither are fuel rats to the best of my knowledge. Surely the lobby (if it was a lobby) would be highly present on the beta patch notes thread as you indicated that's where it's started.
Edit: Same thing on the reddit beta patch notes which are the first 2 links when googling "elite dangerous NPC rescue ship 1.5"
I don't think your view is negative in any way, you can view FR how you wish. I do believe it is misguided and sourceless which is why I'm posting asking questions and trying to understand where you are coming from.
Edit: Not been said but I feel I should add: I highly respect your views and remember numerous threads here where I've learned a thing or two or agreed/disagreed with you. I do honestly believe you are quite wrong here on this particular one.
Last edited:
Well again, you've been asked for a specific source(s) a number of times and haven't provided anything to back up your claims. So either there isn't any or you're taking the words of individual rats as that of some kind of official position by the Mischief (there isn't one except for fueling those who need it) because like I just said there is no official position by the Fuel Rats or "lobbying" of FDev.
But this is the internet, and you said something so it must be true. What do I know...
But this is the internet, and you said something so it must be true. What do I know...
